"Higher power" as mentioned in Alcoholic Anonymous
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As the famous saying goes: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The existence of a deity is clearly an extraordinary claim. No amount of your (or anyone else) witnessing is going to be extraordinary evidence. While you might not agree with that sentiment; the fact that you can't understand it suggests you are a credulous person.
Ya, I don't like it either. I guess we should just wait to find out? If it does exist? We can just tell it how wrong it was and faith is dumb.
The time to believe something is when you have evidence for it. It is not anyone's fault that your god is a game playing idiot. Belief is allocated to the degree of credible evidence. Yes, we should wait. We should wait until we see our first alien or make contact with our first alien before we believe they are abducting people and mutilating cows while drawing crop circles. We should wait until the first Bigfoot has been captured and exhibited before believing in Bigfoot. We should wait until a real mermaid is captured, goes on display and is studied before we believe in mermaids. HOW FRIGGING HARD IS THIS TO GRASP? We should wait until the magical omniscient sky daddy makes a personal appearance until we believe he exists. THIS IS BASIC INTELLECTUAL HONESTY.
I agree, it's not the believers job to provide evidence that only God can give. When my dad killed himself when I was 4 and I asked my mom, what is this life? What's going on here? She said well I don't really know. She might of said some stuff after that to explain it the best she could. But I didn't hear anything because it felt like I was sucked into an eternal abyss and I was completely alone, left to figure it all out on my own. Which set the stage for experiences, rather than what people could tell me. Because, where is our residence? In our head, in our hearts, where do we experience? The internal ever growing universe. So needless to say I was so extreme with it, every year felt like 3. God was the ultimate last thing I could accept as truth. So for what seemed like 90 years, eventually led me to the conclusion that all of this is meaningless and time changes everything only to be forgotten, and then history repeats... Again. Which further led to, all roads lead to God, there is literally nothing else. So when I took my experience, to as close as I could get to death. Everything clicked and solidified into a solid substance of truth in my residence, and all my post it notes in my head of what I thought I knew, were blown away. So my belief did not come easy and it didn't come from a book or what anyone told me. I fought it as hard as any person can. Which makes it undeniable to me. So all I'm ever really saying is. It's probably something worth believing in? And it might help to look at what is blocking you and why. Other than that I love asking questions and seeing the responses. It's like the most advanced psychology class for me, as reading people has been a lifelong job that I actually don't even like. Also I've always wanted to write and never have, until I came here. So I really do thank you all so much. Y'all are helping me more than you know. If anyone ever wants to know God, God's way, then I guarantee that something I've said will click. But if your waiting for God to do it your way? You'll be waiting for a long time lol.
It is contradictory to post an OP with 253 words and expect short and terse responses.
But my larger issue is that since I am very familiar with AA, your misunderstanding of AA is actually offensive. As in the case of other posts, you made many unevidenced claims that are easily dispelled. And since you got more of it wrong than right, I seriously question your motives and information you had to work with.
IMO you read that AA incorporated a lot of the god stuff, then attempted to slide in the divinity factor where it really does not exist. My theory on your motive is further supported when in this last post, you had no problem going back to your old habits, proselytizing like crazy, even slipping in the Pascal's wager crap. Old habits die hard, and you have not changed.
Here is something for you to ponder. If this was faith-based and relied on divinity, then why such a poor success rate in AA? The results are no better than secular programs.
You made this thread in the hope of proselytizing, but confirmed to myself (and I suspect a few atheists) that god is not required. I actually thank you for this thread, because it does confirm that god is not required.
p.s. I suggest you attend an AA meeting. They are free and the doors are always open. In there, just the mention of "Bill W" will evoke a response similar to a deity. The first Sunday of June is designated "Bill W day", and hundreds gather at his graveside and home. AA has (IMO) become more of a cult than an effective method of treatment.
Nyarlathotep: "People is dumb." And when they believe in magical answers to life's problems they are often doubly so.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity or higher power, beyond the bare claims you make here?
We already have objective evidence that the placebo effect exists and can be extremely powerful. If you're going to add a superstitious supernatural cause then you have a burden of proof.
I look forward to a long thread of you preaching at us again, making unevidenced claims again, ignoring all critical objections and questions again, then finally leaving without offering anything approaching debate, again.
"There are countess millions of these stories"
A bare appeal to numbers, argumentum ad populum fallacy.
"I have witnessed hundreds of seemingly hopeless cases go through a transformation due to a spiritual reformation."
Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
"It would be hard to say that something wasn't giving them Devine help. "
That is an appeal to ignorance fallacy, argumentum ad ignorantiam, and so it's utterly unnecessary to say it, as unless you can demonstrate some objective evidence for your claim it is meaningless, as you have been told repeatedly every time you make these proselytising sermons on here. Also divine has two i's, and only 1 e.
My phone is over 4 years old and it's not working properly and it's not charging like it used to. I'm about to go get a new one. You guys probably know more about phones more than I do. I've seen the Samsung s10 just came out. Is that better than apple I phones?
Apple has built-in obsolescence and repairs are virtually impossible, resulting in being forced to purchase a new phone.
I have an i phone 5 and it works great. It does have a broken screen and I plan on taking it to the iphone center after pay day this month. I have been paying for insurance on the damn thing so they had better fix it.
@ Great Hope
I have an Android phone with the latest Android OS, and it is almost 15 years old. Still works perfectly. Although it only has 2GB ram, I was able to install a 64GB MicroSD and it is still not obsolete. If you get a new phone, make damn sure it is Android and not iOS. Apple phones are shit. Changing settings on an Apple phone is damn near impossible without consulting online help. With Android, I can still change settings on anyone's Android phone if by stumbling along.
Make sure it is Android. Fuck iOS.
EDIT: fixed mis-addressing of reply
If we do not do dumb things with our mobile phones, they can work for a long time.
Apple can go to hell.
And here is the thing I find funny. I have heard persons trading in the old phones and using the excuse of the battery getting old and not holding a charge as long and taking longer to charge. I ain't never had to replace my 15yr old phone's battery. It still holds a charge for up to 8 days on stand-by and 2 to three days on ready mode and up to 24 hours, dependent upon use.
It is just so funny that today's yunguns never grew up with the failures of Windows. It was common to ALWAYS skip versions in Windows due to complete failure of the intervening version. I can still remember the versions I kept on the old computers I still have: Win98sp2, WinXPProsp3, Windows 8. Those are the ONLY versions of Windows that are actually worth a damn. My main computer is Linux with WinE. And the true power of ANY computer is the Command Prompt.
I am ranting.
Perhaps because mine is old.... Just go to settings, start clicking buttons. i have never had a problem,
I been looking into new phones myself. The s10 plus is a great phone if you want the best of everything. Of course it will be rendered obsolete by the galaxy note 10 due to be released in august, but, that is always how it works, and I think you need a new phone now.
s10+ is expensive though, starts at 1000 US dollars (although there are a fair amount of "deals" out there that can reduce the price somewhat.. The new s10e Starts at 750, and with a deal can be as low as 500. It is also a great phone, just does not have the huge battery life and screen the s10+ has. (S10e also does not have the in screen fingerprint reader) I would definitely recommend the s10e if you have smaller hands and like to be able to use the phone 1 handed.
I would say the difference between the galaxy s10+ to iphones is a matter of preference. If you are a regular iphone user I would recommend getting the iphone XS especially if you have other apple products and/or apple product peripherals, and if you been using android based phones, stick with that.
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I attended Narcotics Anonymous meetings 25 years ago. Helped me get off some deadly poisons. I no longer attend and do drink wine and occasional Scotch but I am not dying from drink. Not giving my testimony, trying to respond to the OP. Higher Power was never defined as a god. I was told it could simply be my better nature. One man was a Native American and used to offer sweat ceremonies to anyone who wished another path than going to church. There was a joke about 13 steppers. 13 step is when you accept your personal Jesus. NA worked for me because I wanted out of the life and I was accountable to people like me.
I loved NA meetings that I went to. A bunch of Crusty ole tattooed assholes that told it like it was, and called the people in AA pussies. (I was a visiting therapist not an addict, but I genuinely loved the openness of NA.) Fuck with anyone and they called you on your bullshit. I still don't like the God model but the meetings I took some people to were eye opening. It was like tough love 101. I know meetings can be different. Just saying I thought the ones I attended were hard core, realistic, and probably more useful than AA. God took a back seat in these meetings.
Chimp: "NA worked for me because I wanted out of the life and I was accountable to people like me." MY POINT EXACTLY, AND CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR HARD WORK!!! YOU DID IT AND NOT SOME MAGICAL FLYING SKY BEING. BE PROUD OF YOURSELF!!!!
Thanks Brother Chimp!
Although I went through a 2 year period doing anything I could get, became heavily addicted, tried suicide, got committed. It was while I was in the mental institute that they put me through a 6 to 12 month anti-addiction program?? I guess you call it. I know I spent 2 years in the mental hospital. When I came out, I found the IRS had taken everything for back taxes. Ended up in a homeless shelter for a year until I won my lawsuit against the IRS.
Instead of going back on drugs, I got a single-room studio apartment and returned to college.
As the Cherokee told me a long time ago while I was a child, "The greatest power is not without you, it is within."
Damn!!! We got a shitload of people with a shitload of life experience in this room.
Congratulations to you too arakish. I love a good success story!!!
I also suffered, from a deep depression to being suicidal, to substance abuse. I did go through an AA program, something I still have mixed feelings about. The information I learned did help me strike a more balanced approach to life, but other aspects were pure poison to me.
I did try coke, and it was just meh. One of my so-called "friends" was a heroin dealer, and he gave me free samples four times. it was an interesting experience, but I never felt any craving. These days my activities are 100% legal, and I do not feel any need to step beyond that line.
It was a wild ride, it was a fun ride, it was a brutal ride, and I honestly wonder how I survived. It sure wasn't anything divine, it was hard work, a heck of a lot of hard work.
And the part about how hard-core NA is, yes, those meetings had some seriously hard asses filling the seats.
@ David Re: "It was a wild ride, it was a fun ride, it was a brutal ride, and I honestly wonder how I survived. It sure wasn't anything divine, it was hard work, a heck of a lot of hard work."
For me also, yes it was. One thing I have always said, though I was crazy enough to do drugs normally shot up, I was never stupid enough. I always just took them orally.
Having had familial experience over a long period of years with alcoholics, something it appears, you lack in that wall of text, fake facts and false conclusions; Here is what I learnt:
AA: didn't work for either of the attendees in the long term. The whole god thing became tedious and intrusive. They sneaked drinks then felt bad about it. ( I should point out these two did not seek treatment at the same time.)
Potters House: Injected god into everything. Substituted the alcohol/drug high for a god high with disastrous results. 'Saving" and bringing to Jesus a traumatised and damaged individual merely substituted the reliance for endorphins onto a myth. The individual preached, left bible tracts on train seats, and prayed/sang all the time. Was convinced (because they had been told so) that they were worthless sinners "now cleansed' but still worthless in the eyes of god. This person was held up as an example of success of the program, until they fell off the wagon and committed suicide.
12 steps (no god involved) was where the other individual ended up,after years of failure to stop drinking. They had a much better result as reliance was placed on the individual along with strong support and insistence on self worth. They died after 3 years sober.
So you can take your "devine' and shove it as far down your pusillanimous, mealy mouthed lying gullet as you like. In the words of the now famous: utter utter bollocks.
There are now medical treatments for various addictions: pills that make alcohol taste disgusting, drugs that nullify the effect of many 'drugs of choice" ( now that's an oxymoron for an addict) and nearly all these treatments are opposed by the dispensers of the "god solution"...I wonder fucking why?
Some organisations use programs akin to AA to prey upon the vulnerable, like many 'christians' gather like flies at the first hint of a corpse or personal vulnerability. Worthless pieces of human garbage.
You can take your sententious preaching, faux humility and "god exists because drug addict sometimes stop being drug addicts" and shove it right up your fetid, lying rectum. .
(edit fetid for fecund and other spelling)
@Old man shouts ...
You sure do like orifices, I think there are meetings for that?
yep, they are called church services.
BWAAA!! HHAAA!!! LMAOWF.
Damnit Old Man, you sure know how to enforce those Third and Sixth Commandments don't you?
Bwwaaaaaaa!! HHaaaa!!! HHaaaa!!! HHaaaa!!!
***trees slowly makes way back to forest while trying not to laugh hard and failing***
Great hope: TALK LESS AND LISTEN MORE - You just might learn a thing or two. These people have lead real lives, worked through real issues, and EXPERIENCE REAL SUCCESSES.
All you do on this site is make your God look stupid. Do you really think Jesus wants you behaving the way you do? You need to go away, pray, and find something real to talk about. You are narrow minded, shallow, ill informed, and frankly a pedantic twat!
Some minds were made up long before I got here. They won't like anything anyone ever presents uless it's God Himself forcing it's presence on you. That's fine, God probably doesn't know what it's doing. We can just wait to find out. I guess that's exciting.
You'd be wrong to assume that some here have already made up their mind.
Just a question, how do you welcome an hindu saying he had a personal experience with Krishna?
Back in the day, your god was talking to anyone, all the time, but now that we have the methods and technology to investigate all of these claims, he's playing subtle?