I am homosexual, what the Bible says
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@Joy, please demonstrate some objective evidence for objective morals?
@Joy (to the world...) Re: "There is a degree of oral stimulation that can be perfectly fine as foreplay within a marital relationship, but when we deny the fulfillment of the sexual act to its natural end ordered to procreation we end up hurting ourselves and others."
Ah-ha! Okay, I think I am now starting to see the light! So, by that statement, one can surmise that you believe the ONLY reason to have sex is for the SOLE purpose of attempting to get the female pregnant to have a child. Cool. Got it. And, of course, from THAT we can deduce that the ONLY times it is appropriate to have intercourse is during the prime period when the female is ovulating. Check. And, naturally, that would mean having sex at ANY OTHER time is morally WRONG. From that, obviously, we must certainly determine that women and/or men who are medically sterile should NEVER have sex, because it would not serve the natural order of procreation, thus causing GREAT HARM to themselves and others. Oh, wow! That makes perfect sense now! Phew! I am so glad I finally got that through my thick skull. Sometimes I'm not as dumb as I think I am.... *grinning with pride*...
Oh, but wait! It gets better! (And, I must say, this next part has given me a whole new respect for our darling Jumping-With-Joy.) It was in a later post of hers that I found this little gem...
Joy - "I actually would take a bet I probably have more sex than any of the people responding in this thread."
Well, obviously, she must be one helluva Supermom! One can only marvel as to how she manages possibly well over a dozen children or so. (Depending on her age, of course.) For she has shown herself to be such an outstanding model of self-rightous personal integrity, that we ALL can be absolutely certain that dear Joy has NEVER had sex without the intention of getting pregnant. Because for her to do so would have caused harm to herself and to others. Ladies and gentlemen of the AR, I submit to you that we are unworthy of being in the presence of such a blinding beacon of pious moral conduct.
(Edited to omit the post number, because they apparently do not maintain the initial assigned number as the thread grows.)
"So, by that statement, one can surmise that you believe the ONLY reason to have sex is for the SOLE purpose of attempting to get the female pregnant to have a child. Cool. Got it."
Oh dear, then Cognostic is going to hell.
Chimps have huge testicles so that they emit huge qualities of fun juice, in order to wash out any competitor's sperm. So since by design, they waste most of their sperm, this must make god very irate.
Dayum, Monty Python is just as interesting as when I watched them many decades ago.
Are you aware that the female clitoris has as many nerves as a male penis, and it's sole function is purely to deliver pleasure? Why did your god put it there?
"Why did your god put it there?"
So men couldn't find it?
@ Old man
Shh, that is the G-somethingy. All I know is that most men will spend many more hours looking for a wayward golf ball.
Got it, Joy doesn't swallow, however you are being rather presumptuous in telling others what they can and cannot do, and what the fuck has natural to do with it? You seem to be making the asinine assumption that unnatural equates to immoral, and that is just beyond idiotic.
What exactly do you have against pleasure for its own sake? Is your name really Joy, oh boy another irony overload. What if someone sodomises their partner, then gets them to lick it clean afterwards? I'm guessing that would involve a hell of a lot of hail Mary's and our fathers? How can any sane rational adult believe a deity with limitless knowledge and power, gives a flying fuck what species of evolved ape does to another when they get horny? As long as no one is being forced, hurt, coerced or exploited good luck to them.
I'm with the late Christopher Hitchens on this one, in noticing that those who squawk the loudest to condemn specific sexual acts are secretly desperate to try them, but too scared to admit it, even to themselves.
You have stated that ninety per cent of gays engage in anal sex which I find very surprising. A quick blind search of my own across the internet of detailed researches reveals figures averaging between 40% to 60% and as low as 30%. There is a strong suggestion that averages rise and fall over time, and generally falls with the age of the individual, so I discount your claim that "it would be fair" to brand every, or any gay, a sodomite. While your judgement is of no consequence, your claim bears the immorality of false witness.
edited to make me look like I can spell
“You have stated that ninety per cent of gays engage in anal sex which I find very surprising. A quick blind search of my own across the internet of detailed researches reveals figures averaging between 40% to 60% and as low as 30%. There is a strong suggestion that averages rise and fall over time, and generally falls with the age of the individual, so I discount your claim that "it would be fair" to brand every, or any gay, a sodomite. While your judgement is of no consequence, your claim bears the immorality of false witness.”
Population-based studies investigating sexual behaviors of MSM in the United States indicate that 62%–90% of MSM participated in unprotected receptive oral sex in the past 6 months and that 57%–83% of MSM participated in receptive anal sex in the past 6 months–1 year
In the United States, gay men are at a disproportionately high risk of getting HIV and AIDS. In 2015, 68 percent of all U.S. HIV infections affected men who have sex with men.
Scientists have estimated that the average HIV transmission rate during anal sex is 18 times higher than the rate during vaginal intercourse.
The CDC reports that homosexuals comprise the single largest exposure category of the more than 660,000 males with AIDS in the United States. As of December 2001, “men who have sex with men” and “men who have sex with men and inject drugs” together accounted for 63 percent of the cumulative total of male AIDS cases.
Young homosexual men are at particular risk. The CDC estimates that “at least half of all new hiv infections in the United States are among people under twenty-five, and the majority of [those infected] are infected sexually.”
The high rates of HIV infection among homosexual men are largely due to two behavioral factors—the practice of anal intercourse, which facilitates the transfer of the virus far more easily than vaginal intercourse, and the practice of having sexual relations with multiple sex partners, which multiplies the opportunities for both acquiring and transmitting HIV.
I stick by my original claim.
And I still contend your "concrete example" lacks credibility, producing an unintelligible 57%-83% that is meaningless in itself and especially in the absence of any reference to the size of those "population based studies".
I can refer you to a study carried out by Indiana University and George Mason University, in 2014 using a survey sample of over 25,000 gay and bisexual men, the largest such survey in the US, up to that date, which suggested less than 40% had engaged in anal intercourse "in their most recent sexual event".
Your other references deal with the increased risk of gays contracting HIV AIDS through anal sex, which is more an issue about the spread of an infectious disease and not with actual participating numbers.
Frankly I don't trust the veracity of statistical studies. As the old adage has it, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."
So I still reject your "concrete example" of 90%. It suggests bigoted discrimination.
Oh, for fuck sake, AIDS is no longer a threat in the world today. We have had cures for years now.
* Sex with a virgin can cure you of AIDS
* A higher power can cure HIV. Yes, you can pray the sin away!
ON THE SANE SIDE OF THE PLANET---
Are you saying gay men practising anal intercourse should practise safe sex, and use condoms? If so I think we finally agree on something.
When I wore a younger man's clothes, I asked a priest about oral sex. The position of the Catholic church; no probs, as long as the sexual activity ends in intromission.
Missed that post about claiming 99% of gays etc---without supporting evidence ,it's just a claim which says far more about the poster than the gay people it has the arrogance to judge. Not judging? Then why does it matter to you what people may do in bed?
You come across as a wowser .These are usually pious humbugs who spend much of their time getting their knickers all out of focus because they suspect that some one somewhere may be having a good time.Same people are against sex too, because of their fear that it may lead to dancing,
PS " a place cock is not supposed to go" According to whom? You?
I've heard that smug claim about 'mutual masturbation' before, many times. It is my opinion that sex is good for one, and even better for two. Who put you in charge of the sexual mores and practices of others? My position that I mind my on business, as long as people behave within the law.
“When I wore a younger man's clothes, I asked a priest about oral sex. The position of the Catholic church; no probs, as long as the sexual activity ends in intromission.”
I believe that is exactly what I said.
“You come across as a wowser .These are usually pious humbugs who spend much of their time getting their knickers all out of focus because they suspect that some one somewhere may be having a good time.Same people are against sex too, because of their fear that it may lead to dancing,”
Wow, how original. Accusing anyone who speaks about sexual morality as themselves being sexually repressed and not enjoying sex. I actually would take a bet I probably have more sex than any of the people responding in this thread. I love sex. I think it is awesome and beautiful.
“PS " a place cock is not supposed to go" According to whom? You?”
No. According to the world we live in.
You might have heard this saying:
God always forgives.
Man sometimes forgives.
Nature never forgives.
Except for the Amalekites, and all the people he murdered in Sodom and Gomora, and all the first born Egyptians he murdered, and all the people and animals he murdered in Noah's flood of course, yeah I finding it hard to take your claims seriously.
Don't forget that if you really piss him off you spend an eternity in perpetual agony and torture.
You don't even need to do anything, just be born in the wrong place and never hear a fucking word about him. Or just not be prepared to swallow unevidenced superstitious guff from iron age Bedouins as if they are fact.
Cranky... the cock comment was mine but the inference of “where it’s not suppose to go” is Joy’s. You said “It is my opinion that sex is good for one, and even better for two. Who put you in charge of the sexual mores and practices of others?”
I have a great sex life because of the ability to self-satify. This includes the ability to NOT have sex when I’m not “in the mood”.
Given there are some 6 billion on earth I don’t think every sex act has to lead to “...the fulfillment of the sexual act to its natural end ordered to procreation...”. There’s more than enough of us here for God to send to hell or kill at armageddon or whatever else it plans to do...
“Who put you in charge of the sexual mores and practices of others? “
I’m not in charge. Nature is.
“Given there are some 6 billion on earth I don’t think every sex act has to lead to “...the fulfillment of the sexual act to its natural end ordered to procreation...”.
I disagree. And so do many economists . . .
The total fertility rate for the United States in 2017 continued to dip below what's needed for the population to replace itself, according to a new report from the National Center for Health Statistics.
The total fertility rate, which measures lifetime fertility, in 2018 was 1,729.5 births per 1,000 women, which is below the replacement level of about 2,100 births. The country's fertility rate has mostly been below replacement since 1971
Interesting article called: The Global Fertility Crash
@Joy... (to the world...) Re: "The total fertility rate for the United States in 2017 continued to dip below what's needed for the population to replace itself."
...*look of utter disbelief*.... Great-goobly-God-gargling-gargantuan-grape-gobstoppers! What the hell is WRONG with you, woman??? Are you somehow totally oblivious to the fact that our little planet is currently pushing maximum density for human population, and the number of humans is INCREASING at an alarming rate with each passing year??? Hell, governments/scientists/sociologists around the globe are desperately searching for acceptable methods to DECREASE the human population. And YOU are concerned about women not having ENOUGH babies?... *throwing hands up in exasperation*...Holy fucking fiddlestick flapjacks frozen from fresh fart farms!!! Shit, we should be promoting MORE oral sex, NOT less. It is truly disturbing how that ONE statement you made reveals so much about who/what you are... *shudder*...
“ It is truly disturbing how that ONE statement you made reveals so much about who/what you are..”
I actually posted a factual claim and you somehow think that reveals something about me – uuummm ok. Who am I?
"Who am I?"
Do you have any close gay friends you socialize with frequently?
And homosexuality is perfectly natural, QED...
NOTE: Intentional double post. Moving this from the middle to the end here, because I would hate for our JOYful-noise-unto-the-Lord to miss it in the clutter.
@Oh... Joy.... (By the way, remember, YOU asked for this...)
Hi. Me again. Returning, as promised, to address your disturbing infatuation with (and the condemnation of) the sexual practices of two or more consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes, or (in some cases) in secluded outdoors areas, or even in bathroom stalls in various clubs throughout the world. Oh, and let's not forget the untold number of swingers clubs scattered here and there. (Just trying to cover all the bases. Wouldn't want you to feel cheated in your sanctimonious quest.) So, anyway, geeeee.... Where to begin?... Hmmm... Oh, I know...
Re: "From observation/reason/logic we can know that our sexual organs have a role/function/purpose... It doesn’t take a PHD to know the female vagina was designed to receive the male penis – that only women produce eggs and only men produce sperm, etc."
Well, thank you very much, Dr. Obvious. How did I EVER miss that over the years? I know, I must have fallen asleep during that portion of Health Class in sixth grade. Oh, well. One is never too old to learn, right? Let's seeeee.... What's next?... Ah, here we go...
Re: "Over 90% of gay men say they engage in anal sex. So, it is fair to say if you are a homosexual man you are having anal sex. This is a violation of nature."
Say WHAAAAAAT????... You mean to tell me that one man sticks his penis up the anus of another man??? NO WAY!!! And here I was all this time thinking gay men just cuddled and played patty-cake with each other.... *addressing forum*... HEY! How come none of you bozos told me about this sooner?!?... Oh, well.... *shrugging shoulders*... To each his own, I suppose. Still, I admit I am curious as to how that is a "violation of nature." Please... Do enlighten me. Anyway, moving right along...
Re: "The anus was not intended to receive an object into it."
Humph! Tell THAT to my doctor... *rubbing backside absentmindedly*...
Re: "Unlike the vagina that produces its own lubrication and stretches and obviously was intended to receive a male penis."
Hey, genius! Ever hear of KY Jelly? Flavored anal lube? Vaseline? Spit?... Oh, and if my anus does not stretch, then how the hell would you explain some of the ginormous turds that sometimes exit it??? Sometimes need a hatchet and a plunger to get those damn things flushed.
Re: "Can a person engage in this behavior? Of course. But is it right and good for man? Is it ordered behavior? I think it can be argued that it is disordered."
So, who exactly are you to determine what is "right and good" for two consenting male adults? Oh, I know. You must be a highly trained and experienced psychologist or sociologist, right? And what in the blue blazes of Jesus-piss flavored snow cones do you mean by "(dis)ordered behavior"??? And who cares if you "think it can be argued"? Basically, all you have is just a personal opinion. And you are fully entitled to that opinion, I must say. But(t), the irony is, opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one, and many of them smell like shit. Hmmm... Let me try this real quick. I think it can be argued that you are a delusional ninny who has a warped propensity for sticking her nose into the private(s) business of others in an effort to elevate her self-worth by assuming to be of some imaginary higher level of moral superiority. But(t), hey, I could be wrong... *shrugging shoulders*... Next...
Re: "However, even if homosexuality is not a choice, we human beings do have a choice regarding our behavior."
... *double face palm*.... *groooooan*... Aw, geez... Fuck me with a cactus running naked through a sawgrass field wearing flip-flops. Did you HONESTLY just go there with that? You DO realize, I hope (but seriously DOUBT), that even if it IS a choice, one consenting adult male wanting to have sex with another consenting adult male, or MORE than one such male, or with a mix of consenting adult males AND females is STILL..... NONE.... OF.... YOUR.... BUSINESS. And if you don't want to see such activities, then deactivate your Porn Hub account.
Re: "A person may be sexually attracted to small children – an attraction he/she did not choose. Clearly, however, that has nothing to do with whether said attraction is good/right/bad/wrong."
You really should work on your reading comprehension skills (or lack thereof). How/Why are you trying to compare the activities of CONSENTING ADULTS to those of pedophiles who prey upon non-consenting vulnerable children??? Seriously? If you don't know the difference, then PLEASE keep yourself locked away in whatever cave you currently reside.
Re: (In response to a person getting drunk) - "It isn’t in the person’s best interest. There might not be immediate/obvious harm or consequences, but social research can certainly show harm/problems with drunkenness. Man deserves better."
Oh, get the fuck over yourself already, Miss goodie-two-shoes... *rolling eyes*...
Re: "We should all be able to say adultery is wrong."
Yes, we should. And you are fully within your rights to say so. What you do NOT have the right to do, however, is force your opinion(s) on others and trample all over their rights to think differently. Sure, I agree there are cases when adultery can be looked upon as being wrong. But unless it is an incident that involves me or a loved one directly, then - quite frankly - it is none of my damn business. And regardless of what I may think about that incident, it is strictly my personal opinion at that point. So, again, while you are absolutely entitled to your personal opinion, that does NOT give you the right to make your opinion "The Law of the Land." Comprende?
Re: "Many people are religious who do not advocate killing homosexuals."
Hey, GENIUS! YOUR VERY OWN BIBLE ADVOCATES IT. So, basically, those "Christians" who do not advocate the killing of homosexuals are not properly following their bible to its fullest extent. CLUE, already... *shaking head in bewilderment*...
Re: "The OP said the Bible fosters hate because of its position on homosexual acts. I disagree."
Then you obviously have never read your bible.
Re: Your hysterical attempt at justifying slavery...
Bwaaaaaaa-haaaaaaa-haaaaaa!!!!.... *deeeep breath*.... Bwaaaaa-haaa-haaa-haaaa-haa-haaaaaaaaa!!!... *collapsing to floor*... *curling up in fetal position*.... Bwaaa-haaa-haa-haaaa-haaaaaaa-haaaaaaaaaa!!!.... *attempting to catch breath*.... help.... medic....
Re: "Is that in the Old Testament? I’m unfamiliar with that. I would need to see some context. I can tell you, if I were raped and got pregnant, I certainly wouldn’t kill the baby for the crimes of his father..."
For starters, you totally avoided answering my question, which was, “If you are walking to your car after leaving a restaurant and get attacked and raped, I'm sure you will be more than happy to marry the rapist who attacked you, right?” Instead, you attempted a VERY lame deflection with your remark about not killing the baby. Ugh....
Secondly, how is it you claim to be a Christian, yet you know jack shit about your own holy book??? (Oh, sorry. No answer from you necessary. That was meant as a rhetorical question.) Anyway, how about trying Deuteronomy Chapter 22, starting at Verse 13. If you lobby hard enough, I'm sure you can put those laws into practice somewhere in a country nearest you. Oh, wait... There are ALREADY countries that have those laws on the books. So, by all means, please feel free to relocate to one of them since you are such an avid follower of your bible.
“NOTE: Intentional double post. Moving this from the middle to the end here, because I would hate for our JOYful-noise-unto-the-Lord to miss it in the clutter.”
Ooh, I did miss that. Or I guess after now reading it realize I didn’t really miss much. And I love how you were worried I might have missed it in the clutter of your fellow posters – on that we can agree.
“Well, thank you very much, Dr. Obvious. How did I EVER miss that over the years?”
Not sure, but yes it is the elephant in the room many like to ignore –the obvious!
And as I expected nothing else you said actually addressed anything I said other than confirming it or attempting to distract with some kind of middle school humor???
Let me know if you decide to be serious.
@(Ode to) Joy Re: "And as I expected nothing else you said actually addressed anything I said other than confirming it or attempting to distract with some kind of middle school humor???"
Well, you know, I figured it was only fair since you were quick to do your own share of deflecting. Although, I would be willing to wager that my response was considerably more direct than yours... *thumbs in ears while wiggling fingers*.... Nanny-nanny-boo-boooo... *sticking out tongue*... Oh, as for your "middle school humor" remark, please don't flatter yourself. That was only my grade school humor level. You have yet to show me anything worthy of my junior high level material. Why should I waste my good stuff on you?
Ooooh TM at his very bestest!
LMAO. 10,000 agrees.
"Returning, as promised, to address your disturbing infatuation with (and the condemnation of) the sexual practices of two or more consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes, or (in some cases) in secluded outdoors areas, or even in bathroom stalls in various clubs throughout the world. Oh, and let's not forget the untold number of swingers clubs scattered here and there. (Just trying to cover all the bases. Wouldn't want you to feel cheated in your sanctimonious quest.)"
You failed to mention confession booths. That is understandable, they are so obvious.
@David K. Re: "You failed to mention confession booths."
Oh! Wow! You are right! Right there in front of my face in plain sight the whole time! Dang! That IS a fantastic idea! Hmmmm... I do believe the wife and I may have to make a visit to the nearest Catholic church soon. Thanks for the tip, David! Hmmm... By the way, how big is a confessional booth? Guessing the reverse-double-downward-praying-mantis-doggie-style-belly-rub position might not be an option in there.... *scratching chin*...
If you can do it in an airliner washroom five miles up, a confession booth is easy. Heck, I hear confession booths have a little thingy that allows one to kneel. Love the ergonomics. The only issue is that most confession booths are built of wood, and they can become drums if you bang hard enough on the walls.