If the universe did not come about by pure chance - what did happen?
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They are the words of bigotry.
* from the back benches* "hear hear, hear hear"
Yep. They're the reason this will be my only response to the OP. I mean, I'd love to take the credit for the BBT and the ToE, but...
Yes. Yes, they are.
If by weird you mean bigoted and moronic, then yes, he's a troll or my name isn't Huckleberry Finn.
Paul Pores: I have read science books that point to a multiverse from which our universe budded. I have read books on the Big Bang. Lawrence Krauss's book "Atom" describes the first seconds of the BB in detail. None of the things I have read resemble chance. The Big Bang theory is not an atheist theory. Many of the scientists that contributed to it were believers.Many atheists go about their day not thinking about the beginning of the universe.
Who has ever claimed the universe came about purely by chance? Chance certainly may have played a part, but you're lying and changing this to purely by chance, which I have never heard anyone claim. Evolution explain the origins of species, it's a biological theory, but has nothing to do with the origins of life, or the origins of the universe. You'd have to be woefully ignorant to not know such basic facts.
"your statistics showing how everything came to be by pure chance, etc."
Who on earth are you talking to / about? I have never heard this claimed except in as a straw man argument by disingenuous religious apologists.
"Nothing can change my worldview and my faith I have in Jesus Christ."
Then you're closed minded and discussion is pointless. So one wonders why you'd come to a debate forum?
"The faith you possess to believe how processes like evolution and the Big Bang actually occurred matches the faith I have that my God created everything in existence."
Evolution and the big bang theory are based only on empirical evidence, as is all science. Faith plays no part in science's methods.
"Unless you can construct a time machine and go back to the "very beginning", your faith in scientific explanations will be no different from my faith in Biblical interpretations."
You're talking complete rubbish I'm afraid, and really should educate yourself on the scientific methods, and how it goes about evidences claims, before enough evidence is validated for an explanation of a natural phenomena to become established within science as a scientific theory. Religions can demonstrate nothing approaching scientific evidence, indeed I've not seen anyone demonstrate any objective evidence for a deity or anything supernatural.
"So explain to me how you'll be 100% confident in the formation of the universe once you board a time machine and travel back to the beginning."
You do love to make up straw man arguments don't you, don't you realise how this makes you and your beliefs look when you're so dishonest? Science's confidence it is claims comes from the methods used to scrutinise them critically, and the fact that all the evidence validates them and in terms of scientific theories like evolution the fact that after 150+ years of intense scrutiny it remains true and more well evidenced every year. Like all scientific facts it also remains tentative, as science is a method for gathering knowledge and seeking the truth, it would be as useless as religion is at validating claims if it could not correct an error, whether small or large. Though it's absurd to speculate that something as well evidenced as evolution is likely to be reversed, as that's about as likely as the earth suddenly be discovered to be flat all along. I have never heard a scientists claim to be 100% certain about anything, quite the contrary they are extremely guarded in their claims. Only theists make absolute claims in my experience.
Go away and learn a little about science and it's methods, as using these cliched straw men arguments just makes you embarrass yourself.
I have a little time away from the kids and I remembered what I was doing yesterday and decided to see whats up.
I'm so sorry for all of you people. I am praying for each one of you that the Lord would reveal His Truth to you. There is a God who created you and has an inifite love and joy beyond what we can imagine. I have that joy... Nothing would make me happier than for you to experience it too.
@Paul Pores: I have that joy..
And how did you administer this opiate of the masses to yourself? Did you swallow it, suck it up your nose, or inject it into a vein?
Shame on you for selling the qualities that make humans unique and great--intellect, curiosity, reason--to buy a cheap fix from afterlife fantasy peddlers.
And who the fuck are "you people"?!
Well then you have another example of intercessory prayer failing, as I am still an atheist. Anyone else have an epiphany after Paul's rather sententious prayer? Seriously what is it with the random capital letters?
If you really cared about our souls, you would have done some learning so you would be articulate on big bang topics, and would not have cut and run after two days.
I suggest that the next time you start a thread, make sure you have a proper understanding of the topic, and have rational and reasonable arguments prepared.
Save my soul, my mind is not closed off from ideas. But you better have a better sales pitch.
Re: "I am praying for each one of you..." aka the theist's retreat
And from the nose-bleed section: *cheers and hurahs and claps* for posts not made by Paul Pores.
I am going to repeat what Algebe pointed out. It was also the first thing I wanted to ask.
Then why did you post in the "Debate Room"
P.S.- Gads, this sucks having to post while in the hospital...
@arakish: in the hospital...
Sorry to hear that. Get well soon.
Much better now. It was a massive gall bladder attack thing. I thought it was a massive heart attack and was going to die. Got out of hospital last night after the Cat scan and MRI. Feeling better, but may have to have gall bladder removed. Just another damned surgery. Done had too many. Hate the damn things. But if it's got's to be done, it's got's to be done.
Thanks for the well wishes.
If you need faith in order to believe in god, why are you asking god to show truth to others?
"I know all about your Big Bang theories"
"what did happen? Perhaps a better question would be 'who' did it?"
Oh the irony.........
Everything in this world can be 'created' without the need of a deity!
You are born without the need of divine intervention, trees grow without any magical influence, stars form without the need of some all knowing wizard outside of reality.
Everything can be explained via natural explanations, no god is required to explain anything.