Intelligence and belief in God--John Lennox

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Tin-Man's picture
@Old Man, Cog, and Arakish

@Old Man, Cog, and Arakish

Soooooo..... You are saying Kenny was being sarcastic and that he did not really mean it when he said I am smart and handsome and have a nice smile?.... *pondering a bit*..... Oh... Okay... Phew!... Thank goodness. I feel so much better now!... *deep sigh of relief*... For a moment there I thought he may have been mad at me about something, and I was wondering what I did to make him not like me. Sorry, Kenny, I just misunderstood. I forgive you... *smooch*...

Cognostic's picture
Tin: Reach over your

Tin: Reach over your shoulder and peel off that "KICK ME I'M STUPID" sticker he stuck on your back while complementing you.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: "...peel off that

@Cog Re: "...peel off that "KICK ME I'M STUPID" sticker..."

Nope. Gonna leave it there. I get a really good laugh out of watching those who obey the sign hobbling around on a bruised or broken foot... *snicker*....

Sheldon's picture
Intelligence does not make

Intelligence does not make one's reasoning infallible, so the fact one is intelligent does not on it's own validate one's beliefs. Beliefs are only properly validated by sufficient objective evidence.

NB It should be noted that though it has been pointed out on here that there is a broad and longstanding body of research that concludes a negative correlation between religiosity and intelligence, no one has ever suggested all theists ate unintelligent, nor that there are not very intelligent people who are also theists.

Sir Isaac newton believed in the christian deity and was a genius, but he also believed there was validity in the hokum of alchemy and astrology. This simply shows that even a genius can be wrong, and he is considered a genius for those ideas that have been objectively validated by the scientific method. The others don't change the fact he was a genius, but nor does his genius alone validate them, as they do not stand up to objective scrutiny the way his scientific ideas have.

"John Lennox believes in the absolute interpretation of the birth, resurrection of Jesus, Noah and the arc..etc etc etc. "

As he is entitled to, but he is not basing those beliefs on objective evidence, or the scientific method, nor can he use his intelligence to offer any objectively cogent explanation that justifies those superstitious beliefs.

fiat124's picture
Sheldon--I don't understand

Sheldon--I don't understand anything you say. Maybe I am stupid or you don't know what you talking about .I guess that means one of us is an idiot..I like you anyway--smile===

Tin-Man's picture
@Kenny (fiat) Re: "Sheldon-

@Kenny (fiat) Re: "Sheldon--I don't understand anything you say. Maybe I am stupid or you don't know what you talking about."

...*CRINGE*..... *sucking air through teeth*.... Ooooooooooo..... Aye yai yai!... *slowly shaking head in amazement*... Wow... Did you really just open that door like that?... *long slow whistle*.....

terraphon's picture


It's you who's the idiot. Believe that.

Cognostic's picture
Terraphon: Oh no.... you

Terraphon: Oh no.... you diiinnnneet. FUCK! Hope you got some cheese to throw cuz the whine is about to happen.

terraphon's picture


I happen to have a pound of extra sharp cheddar in the fridge.

He won't get that, though. He'll get the moldy-ass bag of shredded cheese I've been meaning to chuck out for a month.

It suits his arguments.

Sheldon's picture
fiat "Sheldon--I don't

fiat "Sheldon--I don't understand anything you say."

Really? You're claiming that you don't understand anything in my post? I'm not sure I believe you sorry. What specifically is hard to understand about the idea that intelligence alone doesn't validates one's beliefs?

In my example I pointed out that sir Isaac Newton believed in Christianity, alchemy and astrology, and is obviously widely considered a genius,, the father of modern science and physics. however he is considered a genius because his scientific ideas have stood up to proper scrutiny and been objectively validated. His other beliefs, including christianity do not.

Sapporo's picture
@servantofAllah (an alleged

@servantofAllah (an alleged Muslim) started a thread on John Lennox only last week:

Now @fiat, an alleged Jew, has started a thread on John Lennox.

@fiat also says he was previously banned:

(I have no idea about the rules about bannings)

Randomhero1982's picture
Intellect has no bearing on

Intellect has no bearing on ones ability to believe in bloody stupid things or do incredibly bad things...

Joseph Mengele had doctorates in anthropology and medicine...

Ted Bundy had a degree in psychology...

arakish's picture
John Lennox is just an

John Lennox is just an example of how someone can be smart enough to earn a PhD, yet also stupid and gullible enough to believe in religion. Being religious is nothing more than seeing the facts, knowing the facts, yet stupid enough to believe the lies.

Now to go read everyone else's replies.


fiat124's picture
A LOVE of mine--Your response

A LOVE of mine--Your response is exactly what I am saying. "Being religious is nothing more than seeing the facts knowing the facts yet stupid enough to believer the lies..EXACTLY.That is my point..How can John Lennox a brilliant scholar and math professor at Cambridge believe such nonsense. THAT IS MY POINT

Randomhero1982's picture
My 7 year old boy has the

My 7 year old boy has the highest reading level in his school, is brilliant at maths and science....

He believe in Santa Claus.

comoke1024's picture
I have a BS in Chemistry, but

I have a BS in Chemistry, but I still believe in the innate goodness of people.

And yesterday I heard a debate between Dan Barker (Atheist) and Dr. Richard Howe (Christian Apologist) with this gem:

Dan: "Do you believe genocide is good?"
Dr. Howe: "It depends on what you mean by 'good.' So I don't want to sign a contract without knowing the terms of the contract."

Then he goes on about the difference between "good" and "moral good" and then this happens:

Dan: "So when the Israelites invaded the Caaninites and took a sword to two year olds and they ripped open the bellies of women and they killed and burned everybody, that could be good?"
Dr. Howe: "No, it's not a good at all, at least for the Caaninites."

So my belief may be nonsense, but I like giving others the benefit of the doubt.

Except Dr. Howe. Fuck that guy.

Edit: You can note here that Richard Howe has a PhD and a Master's, both in philosophy and Dan only has a BS. But Richard Howe is unable to simply say "Genocide is bad." Intelligence isn't everything. Who would I rather see as the person in charge? A highly educated guy who thinks that genocide is ok sometimes or a guy of average intelligence who says that genocide is flat-out wrong? I think my answer can be inferred.

Sky Pilot's picture
Skeptical Kevin,

Skeptical Kevin,

"But Richard Howe is unable to simply say "Genocide is bad.""

Genocide is biblically approved. It is authorized by part of the First Commandment.

Cognostic's picture
fiat: I'm just saying, "If

fiat: I'm just saying, "If the shoe fits...... well....."
@fiat: Have you considered professional help?

DSM IV: Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder with a long-term pattern with exaggerated feelings of self-importance, excessive need for admiration. Therapy is often difficult, as people with the disorder frequently do not consider themselves to have a problem.

Signs and symptoms:
1, Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from other people
2. Fixation on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
3. Self-perception of being unique, superior, and associated with high-status people and institutions
4. Need for continual admiration from others
5. Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
6. Exploitation of others to achieve personal gain
7. Unwillingness to empathize with the feelings, wishes, and needs of other people
8. Intense envy of others, and the belief that others are equally envious of them
9, Pompous and arrogant demeanor

arakish's picture
fiat: "I am such good, nice

fiat: "I am such good, nice sensitive intelligent smart interesting, brilliant person...SARCASM--LAUGH"

Even despite saying it is sarcasm, it still undeserving to say such things about oneself. It still does nothing but make you look like a egomaniacal and narcissistic braggart. Then you say it is sarcasm, but most persons, myself included, will ignore the fact you said it was sarcasm.

Quit being such an egomaniacal and narcissistic braggart, then some may actually take you seriously instead of with contempt.

In contrast, I view myself as the dumbest and retarded person there is on this Earth. Hell, my daughters by the time they were 15, they were grasping concepts I could barely understand. Perhaps excepting a few subjects, I am the stupidest dumb ass there is when it comes to even being knowledgeable. You on the other hand brag about being another Christopher Michael Langon.

Again, now to read others' replies.


fiat124's picture
A Love of mine. I appreciate

A Love of mine. I appreciate your criticism and belittling me. I need to be reprimanded. I deserve to be humiliated. Thank you

Tin-Man's picture
@Kenny (fiat) Re: "I need to

@Kenny (fiat) Re: "I need to be reprimanded."

Oh, boy! A spanking!...

comoke1024's picture
Just because someone is smart

Just because someone is smart, it doesn't mean they cannot be wrong.

I don't care about a person's overall intelligence or how many languages they speak. I care about whether their claim makes sense and how they demonstrate that it is correct.

Google claims he debated Christopher Hitchens a few times. I'll be delighted to look those up on YouTube. Hitchens is my favorite.

arakish's picture
I posted a couple of them in

I posted a couple of them in this post.


Grinseed's picture
Einstein, living in New York,

Einstein, living in New York, one time, rang his wife from a public phone and asked her where he was. So the story goes.

fiat124's picture
I must apologize. Maybe I

I must apologize. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well. All of your responses in different ways gave me examples of Smart people like (John Lennox) who are not so smart. I get that-you get that-we all get that. There are smart people who are stupid. My example of John Lennox is an example of that. The interesting reason for discussion is WHY.. What is going. That a brilliant professor who speaks 5 languages can believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, Noah"s arc or the earth is 10,000 years old....WHY HOW --What is going in John Lennox brain that he believes such crazy nonsense.. Is it a virus.Is it a fungus growing in his brain.. Is it a mutation of cerebral logic. Is John Lennox really a pod from aliens.. No matter what I write in my posts for some reason you ridicule me. I am very sensitive and my feelings get hurt easily . Please be nice to me. I a good person. The question is not that smart people can be very stupid but WHY HOW ????????????????????????????

Cognostic's picture
You have been answered for

You have been answered for over 2 pages. 1. Lack of critical thinking skills in one area. He does not apply what he knows about religious beliefs. 2. Lack of rationality. He opts to believe in magical woo woo instead of direct evidence. 3. He lacks the ability to be skeptical when it comes to his religious beliefs.


David Killens's picture
fiat, it is the human

fiat, it is the human condition. We are not computers where if you put in data you get the same answer each time.

Arguably the greatest mind ever was Isaac Newton. But he was so absent-minded that one day in his youth, the horse he was leading slipped it's halter and he walked miles until he got home and was informed that the horse was not there.

I suggest that if you truly desire to understand WHY?, ask qualified psychologists and other trained medical professionals who understand much more than us atheists on how the brain works.

The bottom line is that a person could be 100% correct on 99 subjects, but wrong on subject 100.

terraphon's picture
What is going in John Lennox

What is going in John Lennox brain that he believes such crazy nonsense..

And now you're a straight up lair.

EVERYONE knows you're an apologist and you make a statement like this? It's incredibly dishonest and you know it. It's too late to reverse your position, Sparky. You stepped in this shit, now you get to deal with the smell.


Sheldon's picture
Why do you think intelligence

Why do you think intelligence negates the possibility of ever being stupid? Human intelligence is not infallible, it's not the complicated really.

Randomhero1982's picture
That is hard to answer @Fiat,

That is hard to answer @Fiat, but I think it is simply down to our human nature.

Let's be fair, if you consider the maximal potential for human intelligence, say maximal use of the brain, to be undeterred by external influences etc... (this is hypothetical obviously and I don't believe at all possible outside of some extreme artificial intelligence)...
And compare that to even an Einstein or Hawkins etc... we are essentially all as thick as pig shit in comparison.

Let alone when compared to your average human!

Or Ken Ham. ;)

But seriously, we are by our very nature fallible and easily influenced.


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