Misconceptions of Islam

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Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
mary ann, in many parts of

mary ann, in many parts of the world, we value freedom of expression. That means no fashion police :)

watchman's picture
I suspect that this is going

I suspect that this is going to make me really unpopular.......But I gotta call it as I see it.....

Those who have read my posts before know I am no apologist for Islam ,indeed I deem it ,like all religions , a man made abomination. I have and am still looking for the keys to its unravelling.

BUT....

Ladies and Gentlemen ....you do realise you have just made Maryam's point for her.

"Many people only blame Islam everytime...why...??"

Why ,indeed.....

A flurry of posts and most of them are anti Islam or anti Muslim....

While denigrating ALL Islamic states...Completely missing the point that the good Doctor Badahda is a representative of the Saudi government ,and was complaining about anti Saudi sentiments. It was the Saudis who broke diplomatic relations with Sweden...It was the saudis who imprisoned and flogged the blogger ,Raef Bawadi .... and yet to read the posts here it is Islam or some generic Muslims who are to be held responsible.

As to Sharia....

Look at what Maryam says ,"Sharia law is for Muslmis.. It protects the rights of us regardless of race, religion n gender..."

If we are to meet the challenges of Islam we must explore the type of views she presents...... just generic name calling will only harden attitudes and get us nowhere.

This is her experience of Sharia....why no questions about where/why she gets this view indeed where in the world is she situated.
For all its excesses she sees it as "It protects the rights of us regardless of race, religion n gender."

A legal system that proposes to "protect the populace "regardless of race, religion n gender."

Now whether the system delivers such even handed justice is entirely another question .... however can any of our "western" legal systems pretend to offer as much. But I digress ....my point to Maryam seems somewhat redundant now ...so I will let it drop.

But if Maryam will permit...can I ask what is your ethnicity and which country are you resident in.

maryam's picture
"Why is it not permissible

"Why is it not permissible for us (the west) to comment on your communities short comings (as we see them.)"

Not permissible..?? for whom..?? u people always Blame Islam with terrorism which is not actually the case... A true Practicing Muslim can't even hurt anyone by words...then far about killing innocents

Could i ask you what is the problem wid shariah law... if anyone abuses My Mother or sister without proof it is not allowed. Then how can we stop when it comes to our religion...?? If anyone abuses my religion, indeed i have a right to stop them or clear the Misconception atleast..

Well, I live in United Arab emirates ( Dubai)....

watchman's picture
Maryam ...thank you for

Maryam ...thank you for explaining where you are ... I think it helps with gauging your replies...

“Could i ask you what is the problem wid shariah law.”

You can indeed Maryam ….. You can indeed….

Ok….where to start….

1/Sharia claims to be a legal system based on the word of a God (in this case Alah).
2/ There is no appeal against rulings of Sharia courts.
3/ There is no equality before the law.
4/ The “unqualified” nature of Sharia judges results in vastly inappropriate and un equal sentences.
5/ In many Islamic countries the legal system presents as “unfinished” or “incomplete”.

Problems…

1/ There is no god….thus Sharia can only be based on the Islamic scriptures……1400 years old and (famously) unrevised.

2/ “ There are no appeals to the judgements of a qadi.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qadi
Note Quadi…is a judge ruling in accordance with Islamic religious law .

Not all Quadi’s are/have been above reproach …”Qadis must not receive gifts from participants in trials and they must be careful in engaging themselves in trade.

Despite the rules governing the office, Muslim history is full of complaints about qadis. It has often been a problem that qadis have been managers of waqfs, religious endowments.”

3/ “compensation rates, under Sharia, have historically varied based on the gender and religion of the victim. Muslim women victims have typically been compensated at half the rate as Muslim male victims, while non-Muslims compensation rates have varied between 1/16th to half of a Muslim, for an equivalent case.”

4/ A qadi must be an adult. They must be free, a Muslim, sane, unconvicted of slander and educated in Islamic science. Their performance must be totally congruent with Sharia without using their own interpretation.

“The sentences for rape cases are also extremely unbalanced in Saudi Arabia. In one example from February 2013, a Saudi preacher raped, tortured and murdered his 5-year-old daughter. He was sentenced to eight years in prison, 800 lashes, and a fine of one million riyals ($270,000 USD) to be paid to the girl's mother, his ex-wife.
Contrasted with this is the case of two Pakistani citizens who were beheaded by the state after being convicted of a rape.” ….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Saudi_Arabia

5/ “there is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment.”… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Saudi_Arabia

Maryam …you go on…..

“And if any one rapes, Islamic Shariah says… ‘Capital punishment’. People say it is a barbaric law.”

That’s not quite true is it ?

“there is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment.”

Again you go on….“I ask you ‘If some one rapes your wife or sister, and if you are made the Judge… what punishment will you give him? All of them said that… ‘I will kill the rapist’. If someone rapes your wife, sister and you are made the judge… what punishment will you give him? – ‘Death penalty’. some will say like …‘I will torture him to death.’”

“But that demonstrates my point….that response is nothing to do with the rule of law…it is pure revenge.”

Then again…

”If you implement the Shariah in west where more rapes cases take place everyday – that every man who looks at a woman, should lower his gaze – the woman should be properly dressed up, and after that if someone rapes…Will the rate of rape increase, decrease or remain the same?”

Well …. The number of rape cases will go down…because women will no longer report them due to the number of acquittals due to the “4 witness” rule in Sharia.

If you look at European history ,you will find that we separated the Law from the Judiciary to enable a move away from divinely inspired laws open to all kinds of abuse towards a system based on logic ,rationality and evidence.

It has been a long ,bloody struggle ,in England it goes back to Henry II and Thomas Becket 1170 at least ,probably before…there were similar struggles in most European countries ….but you get the point.

We didn’t go through all those struggles to cave into demands for a sub standard Shariah system now…..

the way to the future is to move forward not to return to a failed past.

There are also other inequalites in Shariah.....

The concept of Diyya ...or blood money..... puts the wealthy beyond justice...while the poor end up with the pointed end of the sword of justice.

If justice is indeed the word.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Wonderful post.

Wonderful post.

Though I do think that the problem is Islam,
Extremists are allowed to be extremists because there is a brainwashing cult that they can hide behind, which has enough supporters to allow them to get away with it.

Once you remove their shield, taking down those extremists is easy.

The problem is to take down the shield.

To convince totally brain washed people that they have been artificially mind raped from childhood in a theology that does hurt them.

That is why they jump up in defense of their religion because they think that it defies them,
They thing that when you criticize Islam, you are criticizing them personally.

They just cannot accept the fact that it does more evil then good and never will that is why they prohibit education that could help them see the evil their religion does.

It is not a coincidence that they cannot see that Sharia Law is not fair.

They have been mentally raped to see it as fair.

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
good post, watchman. I have

good post, watchman. I have a minor quibble, though. As a religious person, I would RATHER follow an unedited "scripture" than an edited one. If it is God truth, a hefty proposition, it should apply in a modern context. Friends, please don't derail this conversation as we are want to do. If you want to discuss specific gripes about OT and NT I can start another thread (as I AM want to do :) )

- Enjoy and Cheers :)

ThePragmatic's picture
A well written article, Why

A well written article, Why Islam Needs a Reformation:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-reformation-for-islam-1426859626

Samreen Siddiqui's picture
Yes, everybody did made &

Yes, everybody did made & proved Maryam's point ! why blame Islam ? All the comments are Anti islamic. Whatever a person does, it's only his fault. God has ordained certain laws for humans so that they should follow them and shouldn't harm each other by making their own laws. God is the creator of everything. He knows everything what you conceal and reveal. Those who won't follow shariah law are in loss ! NOw everyone will ask for proves and stuff to be presented as to have a check on it?? But let me ask you all that when you have made up your mind already that "I'm not gonna believe in everything what people say & qoute from the religion", then how is anybody going to have a conclusion about what is right and what is wrong ?

Sadly, this debate won't end, if nobody is going to believe.

ThePragmatic's picture
The problem of the extremists

The problem of the extremists is just that: They DO believe! To the point where they are bat-shit-crazy.

Travis Hedglin's picture
The religion is as much as

The religion is as much as fault as anything else, they weren't screaming about their socioeconomic or politics when they kill, they are yelling the name of their god. Also, Islam isn't exactly blameless, as has been pointed out it very much a hotbed for such ideals and justifications. However, you also make our point for us, as once again someone is trying to say "it was anything but religion" when they yell "in the name of the prophet" and "the prophet is avenged". I don't rightly care anymore if your average Muslim is for or against it, considering they don't seem to be willing to do a damn thing to help us stop it, they are just the grass that the snakes hide in.

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
hearsay, rumors, and slander

hearsay, rumors, and slander (otherwise known as Western news :P) indiciates that most suicicde bombers are from poor families and are at least partially motivated by the generous cash basket organizations give to their families if said bombers commit their interpretation of "jihad"

I've heard jihad viewed as an internal struggle for the faith. This means it is about devoting yourself to your God and living a virtuous life. At least this is my twinkie (yellow on the outside, white on the inside :P ) understanding. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, MaryAnn

Nyarlathotep's picture
"God is the creator of

"God is the creator of everything. He knows everything what you conceal and reveal."

Yes, we know the story: he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when your awake, he knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake. Oh wait, I think I got my mythological creatures mixed up again...

Travis Hedglin's picture
He's making a list, checking

He's making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out who's naughty or nice...

Holy crap, they are identical, except one gives you coal and the other sends you to hell...

myrobot's picture
Maryam...

Maryam...
You answered only my this question and i am not agree fully with your answer "Now you shall say peoples in saudia arabia are rich because there is sharia law, now stop here peoples are rich because their country has wealth of oil and profit of umrah and hajj".
but you did not answer my main point which is about killing of humans only due to religions.
First i talked these killings in iraq and other countries are only due to religions. Am i wrong.
Now you said "if someone is rape my wife or sister then of course i shall kill him". First of all i don,t have wife still and don,t have any sister already. but suppose i have wife and sister and someone rapes then of course i shall kill him because he raped with wife or sister because i can,t bear it. Law is made for punishment to these persons who rape for peace in societ but these laws are made of humans not God because God does not exist. Some laws are hard and some laws are soft and i as i told western peoples are soft that,s why there laws are also soft so there crime is not less than saudia arabia. but saudi arabian society is hard peoples that,s why their laws are also hard and in result there crime is less but you can,t say those laws are of God. As you say those laws are derived from Quran, here i say Quran is made by arabian and as arabians are hard people so they added hard laws in the Quran and laws derived from Quran are hard and due to hard laws crime is less in saudia arabia.

myrobot's picture
in above message i wrote a

in above message i wrote a line which can confuse you that,s why i am explaining it again with well words "Law is made for punishment to these persons who rape for peace in societ but these laws are made of humans not God because God does not exist" it means Law is made for peace in society by punshing those who rape women, but these laws are made by humans not by God because God does not exist.

myrobot's picture
and Maryam you did not answer

and Maryam you did not answer my first question which is about killings in iraq and other countries are only due to religions. Read that part which i mentioned above and then answer here.

myrobot's picture
Maryam...

Maryam...
you did not answer my question in thread "Help Please I am muslim from Pakistan". Please answer my questions there.

mysticrose's picture
Of all religion, Islam seems

Of all religion, Islam seems to be the one whose some members are both too dedicated with their faith and yet the teachings of goodness and love can't be seen on their deeds.

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
I profondly disagre. My

I profoundly disagre. My college friend and scholar-mate Samia helped start a political awareness and neutral political action committee at our school called S.P.E.A.K.

Thormod Nordahl's picture
Muslims, Catholics, Lutherans

Muslims, Catholics, Lutherans, Mormons, baptists, scientologists, jews and a bunch of other lunatics have the same God. Abrahams god!

The muslims today are no more violent, evil and extremist than most of the others were a couple of centuries ago.

Secular education could speed up their transition, saving millions.

myrobot's picture
Yes you right friend, secular

Yes you right friend, secular education can speed up transition, saving millions. All religions,s peoples particularly muslims,christians,jews etc. need secular education. I agree with you

Samreen Siddiqui's picture
watchman..

watchman..
The facts you posted are indeed 'true' things happened in the name of law.. But they're not 'right.'
Shariah law is the law made by Allah.. what humans did is fabricated them. This world is full of imperfection.. There exist no justice today. If everything were to be just then what is the purpose of paradise??

The media is anti-islamic, it doesn't leave any chance to blame it on Islam. And killing in the name of religion is absolutely wrong !!! Whoever does God(Allah) will catch them on the day of judgment. Don't judge Islam by seeing such muslims. Islam is Islam ! Study it if you have doubt !

maryam's picture
yeah Indeed.. i said many

yeah Indeed.. i said many times here that Don't judge Islam by Muslims of today .. if you want to judge a religion then read it ... understand it ... seek the true followers ....

maryam's picture
True followers like the

True followers like the justice of Umar bin al Khattab

Spewer's picture
Hello Maryam - The eyes and

Hello Maryam - The eyes and bridge of your nose as exposed in your scandalous picture are much too provocative. Kindly please have them covered so that you are not a temptress who leads otherwise virtuous men astray. Thank you.

watchman's picture
Samreen….

Samreen….

You posted…

“This world is full of imperfection..”

I would say that is true enough…

“ There exist no justice today.”

No...can't agree that… there CAN be justice ….. but WE have to make it …. ALL of us.

Sorry if this is going to disillusion you but it isn’t going to drop on us from a clear blue sky.

Although…there are these…..

A 23-year-old bar-brawler who had been escorted out of the Turtle Club in Florida by a bouncer, sneaked back in and leaped off a staircase, aiming a kick at another man, but was killed when he landed on his head.

Iraqi terrorist Khay Rahnajet, didn't put enough postage on a letter bomb, and it came back marked "return to sender." He opened the package and was blown away.

Two animal rights activists were protesting the cruelty of sending pigs to a slaughterhouse in Bonn by freeing a captive herd. Suddenly all two thousand of pigs stampeded through the gate they were opening, and trampled the hapless protesters to death.

News of the Weird reports that in September 1996 a man was crushed to death on a stairway at the Sammis Real Estate and Insurance office in Huntington, N.Y., while he was stealing the office's 600-pound safe. He apparently violated that cardinal rule of hauling massive objects: Never stand on a step lower than the one the safe is on. The safe was empty at the time of the incident.

In San Jose, California, Herman, an avid hunter, used the butt of his shotgun to bash his girlfriend's windshield during an argument. But his loaded gun accidentally discharged into his stomach, killing him and ending the argument.

http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2000-45.html

You went on…

“ If everything were to be just then what is the purpose of paradise??”

Again I must apologise Samreen … but there is no paradise … there never has been … it is a myth.

“The media is anti-islamic, it doesn't leave any chance to blame it on Islam.”

Yes …some media IS anti Islamic ….
But then some muslims never miss an opportunity to give the media exactly what it wants …..
for example…Abd al-Aziz ibn Baz late Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia

”In 1966, when Ibn Baz was vice-president of the Islamic University of Medina, he wrote an article denouncing Riyadh University for teaching the "falsehood" that the earth rotates and orbits the sun”

“And killing in the name of religion is absolutely wrong !!! Whoever does God(Allah) will catch them on the day of judgement.”

No… If they are to be stopped … WE have to stop them .,.. There is NO god ( no Zeus ,no Thor ,No Yaweh ,No Allah ,No Marduk ,No El , etc.etc.) Thus there can be no day of judgement….there is no-one to be the Judge.

“Don't judge Islam by seeing such muslims. Islam is Islam ! “

YES Islam IS Islam ….. it is what it presents itself to be.

Look at the Islamic world…. You can count the number of stable ,viable countries on the fingers of one hand. The rest are failed / failing states or desperately clinging to ideas of a mythical Islamic “Golden Age” that never existed.

watchman's picture
Maryam....

Maryam....

"True followers like the justice of Umar bin al Khattab"

All very well....but he died around 1400 years ago .....

got any one closer in time ?

Samreen Siddiqui's picture
Watchman..

Watchman..
sorry to tell you that the facts you posted here I don't see any justice in them. I mean it have nothing to do with this topic.

And what you trying to prove is God(Allah) doesn't exist ?

If you don't believe, it doesn't mean that its true !

So you believe everything is natural right ? Then why is nature so imperfect ?

watchman's picture
Samreen….

Samreen….

You posted:

“sorry to tell you that the facts you posted here I don't see any justice in them. I mean it have nothing to do with this topic.
And what you trying to prove is God(Allah) doesn't exist ?
If you don't believe, it doesn't mean that its true !
So you believe everything is natural right ? Then why is nature so imperfect ?”

OK lets take a look shall we ….

1/ “sorry to tell you that the facts you posted here I don't see any justice in them. I mean it have nothing to do with this topic.”

So you see no “justice” in a man undertaking a particular move in a violent altercation ,killing himself by his own action.?

You see no “justice” in the terrorist killed by his own letter bomb when it was returned to sender.?

You see no “justice” in the thief being crushed to death by the empty safe he was trying to steal.?

I posted the examples in response to your post that ,
“ There exist no justice today.”

Or is it that you do not consider my examples as being “justice” because there was no element of judgement and that Allah was not involved in the events ?

You then post:

2/“And what you trying to prove is God(Allah) doesn't exist ?”

Yup…. Pretty much…… and not just Allah but any and all gods.

You see I am an Atheist…… this is Atheist Republic ….A Community for Atheists Worldwide ….

You go on…

3/“If you don't believe, it doesn't mean that its true !”

Damn right …..
but then ,of course , the converse is also true…..
If you do believe, it doesn't mean that its true ,either !

Then you come up with :

4/“So you believe everything is natural right ?

Yes…. In so far as all things have either a natural origin or a man made origin……. There are NO supernatural origins.

4a/“Then why is nature so imperfect ?”

Nature is nature ,it is not imperfect …. It is what it is….it may be occasionally chaotic ,from our view point but it is always natural.

I wonder ,can you expand on your “nature is imperfect” thought….. examples perhaps?

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
Watchman, I see no justice in

Watchman, I see no justice in anything random. I see justice as order. If you disagree, it might make a worthwhile thread

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