Misconceptions of Islam

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Samreen Siddiqui's picture
Yes I see no justice there

Yes I see no justice there because these things were accidental. Again I would mention it is not related with the topic.

Coming to 'Nature is imperfect.' From your perspective you said 'it is what it is.' I want to know I you could explain it to me why it is so imperfect. Why there cannot be only mountains ?? Why there cannot be only deserts ?? why there are blacks & whites ? why there are so many planets n stuff ??

I hope you got my point what I'm trying to ask.

maberl's picture
Maryam........can i ask that

Maryam........can i ask that have u ever been to saudia.
I have lived in saudi arabia. and some of my relatives still do.

for me the sharia does not even exist over there (only sharia punishments do)
what exists are the barbaric punishments that are then justified and backed by sharia.
there is no equality in the society.
white arab and brown people have different privileges.
brown people do not get equal salaries at job
they cannot buy property
they cannot own a full business
saudi women can not marry non saudi nationals
things like these are in extreme violation of human rights and these are not even half of what happens there.

please dont try to defend saudi arabia if you wish to defend sharia atleast

watchman's picture
"I hope you got my point what

"I hope you got my point what I'm trying to ask."


Not sure I have ...
but it seems to be that you equate perfection with uniformity and hence imperfection with diversity.

But perfection is a subjective view point......

What is perfect for the camel is not perfect for the frog.

So who do you think gets to judge this perfection you seem to crave.

"Why there cannot be only mountains ??"

There can be...... take a look at areas of the globe where the continents have collided ..... nothing but mountains....
eg. the Himalayas ,the Alps , the Rocky Mountain/Andean chain.

"Why there cannot be only deserts ?? "

There can be ....look in the regions of the world where there are no rain shadows beyond mountains ... Namibia , the Saharan countries or those areas too far from the coast and moisture bearing air ie.the Tibetan plateau ..
Plus of course mankind's own efforts to render the planet uninhabitable. deforestation , polluting watercourses over grazing , strip mining etc.etc.

Black and white..... well that's due to differing genetic make-ups within the human race.....skins of darker pigments developed to screen the body from harm-full solar exposures.

I wonder why you equate diversity with imperfection...... but perhaps I've misunderstood....if I have please let me know....

By the way ...what is your first language.....it may help me to understand you posts better......although I wouldn't hold your breath on that one....my own linguistic skills are not a patch on yours ,

in fact it often strikes me how well people from different traditions on here seem to have mastered English which must be an absolute nightmare to learn as a 2nd language.

ThePragmatic's picture
Michael Sherlock writes

Michael Sherlock writes another excellent article, to explain the misquoted tweet: "ISIS is Islam."
Well worth reading. https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/isis-is-islam/

It is quite clear, that those who claim that Islam is a religion of peace, are either picking and choosing or have not read the Qur'an.

ThePragmatic's picture
I don't understand why

I don't understand why Muslims who does not in any way want to be associated with the likes of ISIS, Boko Haram, al-Qaeda, the Taliban, etc, keeps saying "That has nothing to do with Islam".

Yes it does! The Qur'an specifically orders slaughtering of non-Muslims and to spread Islam by force. These terror organizations has everything to do with Islam, the extremists are just interpreting the Qur'an more literally. Ask an extremist and I am quite sure they will say that they are the true believers and that the more rational, normal Muslims have the wrong interpretation of Islam.

Why not proudly proclaim that "We are reformed Muslims." ?
As a way to tell the world that "We distance ourselves from the extremists.", "We believe in a peaceful interpretation of Islam."
The extremists will always claim that they are the true believers of the correct interpretation of Islam.

ThePragmatic's picture
I would urge all Muslim's

I would urge all Muslim's that consider Islam to be peaceful and that the people speaking up against Islam just have misconceptions of Islam, to follow #NothingToDoWithIslam on Twitter.

ThePragmatic's picture
Mike Dobbins: An Apology to

Mike Dobbins: An Apology to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Sam Harris, Bill Maher and Other So-Called Islamophobes.
"For years I was an apologist for Islam, as regrettably, many still remain..."


ThePragmatic's picture
"Islamic State (ISIS)

"Islamic State (ISIS) Releases Pamphlet On Female Slaves"

"Question 4: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive?"
"It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the female captive. Allah the almighty said: '[Successful are the believers] who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame [Koran 23:5-6]'..."

"Question 5: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive immediately after taking possession [of her]?
"If she is a virgin, he [her master] can have intercourse with her immediately after taking possession of her. However, is she isn't, her uterus must be purified [first]…"

"Question 13: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female slave who has not reached puberty?
"It is permissible to have intercourse with the female slave who hasn't reached puberty if she is fit for intercourse; however if she is not fit for intercourse, then it is enough to enjoy her without intercourse."

But I guess this has #NothingToDoWithIslam...

ThePragmatic's picture
And of course this one.

And of course this one.
"It conservatively estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men of Muslim faith."

#NothingToDoWithIslam ?

ThePragmatic's picture
Yasser Barahimi says if a man

Yasser Barahimi says if a man can't have sex when he wants he will be "damaged".

Travis Paskiewicz's picture
I suppose that in order to

I suppose that in order to have a proper arguement on shariah law, we would first have to dispose of the notion that it is in any way from a god. Let's face it, the Q'uran is only a book. Books are written by men, therefore the entirety of the Q'uran is the product of men.

The biggest problem, is that like pretty much every other judiciary system in the world, it's become corrupt. There are people in power who use the influence and power given to them to outlaw opposition. The apostasy and blasphemy laws make it impossible to argue the legitimacy and positive impact of laws, and that makes it very difficult to bring new thoughts to the public forum. The very act criticism could be seen as apostasy or blasphemy.

The next biggest issue is that there are laws punishing other belief systems, especially people who wish to abandon Islam. The death penalty, public torture, fines, the loss of inheritance, loss of child custody, prison, and exclusion from the protection of the law are all utilized from both the past and present implentations of shariah law to force people to remain Muslim and alienate other faith groups.

All in all, I'd have to say that Islam, and by extension shariah law; does not appear to be any different than any other example of history's dictator led personality cults. such cults usually idealize one leader's teachings (Muhhamed, Christ, Kim Jong Un, Hitler, John Smith, Elron Hubbard, Jim Jones, etc...) and then kill off, exile, or imprison anyone with alternative view points.

I don't think there's any misconceptions about Islam from the Atheist perspective. It's just another hokey religion doing what every religion before it has done. Which is essentially say "We're right because God said so".

There's too many people with a good number of books, all claiming to have God's words. Which is odd, because you'd think that an immortal super being that controls the universe could speak for himself.

Johnny Moronic's picture
Why would you assume that we

Why would you assume that we have misconceptions about Islam? I've done my homework, reading and research, and I feel as though I know exactly what Islam is, I feel as though I have no misconceptions about it whatsoever. Like all other organized religions, my view of Islam is largely critical, and deservedly so. But I do not misconceive it in the slightest. What do you feel is misconceived?

maryam's picture
I have seen many people here

I have seen many people here in this board maligning Islam blindly.so thot to start this thread

Pitar's picture
I can see that point of view.

I can see that point of view. But, I can also see maligning of Islam profoundly entrenched within its own ranks. Ours is not so much a maligning as it is spoken observations highlighting the ironies of it's own sadism.

Understand most of us who do not subscribe to religious convictions can only comment upon their respective claims of peace that are clearly and repeatedly refuted by their own actions. We are merely mirroring in words what Islam and other religions reveal in actions.

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
Johnny Moronic (that's a

Johnny Moronic (that's a weird name but that's besides the point), do you speak arabic? Have you read the Qu'ran in its host language? Have you been to any islamic countries. Have you done hajj or internal jihad? Do you even know any muslims? Do you have any muslim friends?

Do you know the history of the immans and holy scholars of the past? Did you know that a specific scholar viewed al-gebra, something once widely accepted by Islam for stargazing, as evil?? Have you met with Muslim heads of states? Have you interviewed an Islamic terrorist? Do you know why so many Muslims are against the existance of Israel? Have you had studies conducted by educated immans in the Qu'ran. Have you fasted for a month during Ramadan? Do you pray 5 times a day facing mecca? Do you believe there is only one God, his name is Allah, and his one true prophet is Mohommad? Did you know Mohammad married and had sex with a toddler??

If you cannot answer ALL these questions with an emphatic "yes", I would hardly call you an expert and would propose you are going outside your knowledge set

- Cheers and Enjoy :)

maryam's picture
Again Misconceptions

Again Misconceptions pragmatic...
Suppose If a driver in a car met with an accident ... do you blame a driver or a car..?? obvio driver rite..?
Similar with Islam ..

If non-practicing Muslims or non- Muslims quoting half verses and inauthentic hadiths to justify their point of view then why blame Islam…??

Blame that Ignorant Muslims ..Not Islam

Yes, ofcourse nothing to do with Islam

How can Islam promotes terrorism when it forbids to cut even a tree without any valid reason. ..??

How come a religion which means obeying God orders will ever allow mayhem. ..?

Islam has nothing to do with the killings. Islam means submission to the will of God in words, obeying God's orders. A real Muslim is the one who obeys God's orders. God never sanction’s destruction, evil, injustice etc. Most of the critics without knowledge or out of jealousy, stupidity and ignorance quote half verses of Quran and depict Islam as a violent religion. They malign Islam with all sorts of absurdities

Allah says in Quran “ Whosoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind and whosoever saves the life of one it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Quran 5:32

No, doubt…Islam ordains beautiful life for a seeker of truth


Islam is chosen by the creator for the whole of mankind. There can be no reform in the this matter…we are not the reformed Muslims.

Why do you give the examples or sayings of ignorant people..?? This shows your ignorance towards Islam. Instead of maligning Islam try to know the real meaning of Islam ..

Why don’t u look at the scholars of Islam..The knowledge people of Islam…Like .DR, bilal Philips, Abdul raheem green ,d. r. zakir naik

They are educated people and trying their best to remove the misconceptions of Islam

Yes this an Atheist site… but it doesn’t mean maligning Islam blindly..

Please do not say something which you don’t know..

CyberLN's picture
You say that these "ignorant

You say that these "ignorant Muslims" do not represent Islam as they are interpreting it incorrectly. They are doing EXACTLY what you are doing -> interpreting. You say you are correct and they are not. They say you are the incorrect one.

Why on earth do you think we should take your word for it?

IMO, any interpretation is incorrect and Islam is wrong in general. It hurts people, both overtly and covertly.

So I don't really care that you think I've got a misguided opinion of Islam because your interpretation of it is just as wrong as the interpretation of an ISIS member's. Both are detrimental.

watchman's picture
Oh Maryam.....

Oh Maryam.....

Your not telling the truth .... are you?

"God never sanction’s destruction,"

Would you like to consider the tales of Nuh...those who died in the flood might have a differing view...

or perhaps the tale of Musa ... Pharoah and his people might have a different perspective.

Your god.... this Allah ....seems to act like some sort of out of control ,petulant three year old.

(very reminiscent of a certain Yahweh ,a some time deity of the Hebrew and Cannanite pantheons.)

do you have a comment ?

watchman's picture
"The knowledge people of

"The knowledge people of Islam…Like .DR, bilal Philips, Abdul raheem green ,d. r. zakir naik"

You do realise this is a list of exponents of Dawah ( the islamic form of evangelism)

They are all listed as extremists ..... banned in several countries.....and have the most appalling attitudes to women to other faiths one even applauded the destruction of the World Heritage site of the Buddhas of Bamiyan ...demonstrating the signature barbarism of elements of Islam....

Also it should be noted they are all Mawali.....that is non Arab muslims....Maryam I wonder do you have any views on this.

ThePragmatic's picture


What I am saying is that when people keep claiming that the likes of ISIS and Al-Qaeda "have nothing to do with Islam", they are just plain wrong.

It may have nothing to do with y̲o̲u̲r̲ i̲n̲t̲e̲r̲p̲r̲e̲t̲a̲t̲i̲o̲n̲ of Islam. But it most definitively has everything to do with Islam. They justify their actions with the Qur'an and the Hadith and they draw inspiration from it to commit their atrocities.

"When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." - Qur'an 8:12

Please understand that I think it is great that moderate Muslims interpret the Qur'an as a religion of peace. I wish all Muslims did. I wish all Muslims were peaceful, humanitarian, generous and just.

I am by no means an expert at Islam. So please, feel free to correct me if I have any facts wrong.
But it doesn't take much reading to see that moderate Muslims are cherry picking to get their peaceful version.

We can agree on one thing you said: "A real Muslim is the one who obeys God's orders."

Okay. So what are god's orders? You mention this:

"Whosoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind and whosoever saves the life of one it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Qur'an 5:32"

This is of course completely depending on the definition of "innocent".

If innocent is a devout Muslim (of the correct interpretation), who have not in any way wronged another devout Muslim (of the correct interpretation), while not having done anything wrong according to the Muslim law (of the correct interpretation), well then there are still a lot of people who it can still be allowed to kill. About 6.7 billion people or so. The Qur'an permits the slaughtering of the "unjust".

Lets take some examples from the article I linked to, written by Michael Sherlock:

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." - Qur'an 2:216

"Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower." - Qur'an 2:244

Hmm, fighting in the way of Allah? Does that actually mean physical fighting?

"Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in the way of Allah, so they slay and are slain." - Qur'an 9:111

Sure sounds like the perfect word of the perfect god, huh? "Religion of peace", right? Sounds more like ethnical cleansing.

"Fight them (non-Muslim pagans) until there will be no disbelief in God [fitnah] and until God's [Allah's] religion [Islam] will become dominant. If they change their behaviour, there would be no hostility against anyone except the unjust." - Qur'an 2:193

And the infamous "verse of the sword":

"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists [unbelievers/idolaters] wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent (convert to Islam), establish prayer, and give zakah (compulsory payment of money), let them go on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." - Qur'an 9:5

You say: "Islam is chosen by the creator for the whole of mankind."
Is that so?

"Slay them wherever you may catch them and expel them from the place from which they expelled you. The sin of disbelief in God (fitnah) is greater than committing murder. Do not fight them in the vicinity of the Sacred Mosque in Mecca unless they start to fight. Then slay them for it is the recompense that the disbelievers deserve." - Qur'an 2:191

There is a lot more, both from the Qur'an and the Hadith, about slavery, rape, plundering, destruction of Non-Muslim artefacts. But I think this is enough for now...

Islam is in dire need of radical reformation.

"Please do not say something which you don't know."

I can only return that comment. Moderate Muslims live in a "cherry picking" version of Islam.
But the extremists and terror organizations read the nasty parts, and they follow them. According to them, they have the correct version of Islam, they are the "real Muslims".

To say that they and their atrocities "have nothing to do with Islam" is delusional.

maryam's picture
No pragmatic.. As I said

No pragmatic.. As I said before How can Islam promotes terrorism when it forbids to cut even a tree without any valid reason. Islam ordains beautiful life for a seeker of truth

Temme one thing are you still believing the words of mouth of ignorant people..?? or you ever tried to study
Islam ( authenticated sources)

Let me clear one thing .. this is not my interpretation .. all im doing is providing the authentication.. Even if any muslim quotes any thing we ask 4 reference and the commentary.. because it is the matter of religion…

All the scholars of Islam who learned from authenticated sources share same view.. there is no difference..
Look many Muslims in India and Pakistan worships graveyards , saints… which is the major sin in Islam.. they follow only culture adopted from other religions… so can we consider that it is a part of Islam… no, obviously no… becoz Islam is the only religion which ask you to believe in only one god..

Why…?? because of lack of knowledge of Islam..

The verses which you quoted certainly speaks about the war.. But which war..?? that verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith.

“There is no compulsion in matters of faith.” [the Cow — “Al-Baqarah” 2: 256]

[ 33:48 ] And do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites but do not harm them, and rely upon Allah . And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

Watchman, I will reply you later…

Travis Hedglin's picture
Maryam: "How can Islam

Maryam: "How can Islam promotes terrorism when it forbids to cut even a tree without any valid reason?"

Because Islam is MORE than just a religion, it is also a culture and an ideology. There are ideologues who truly believe that you are already in a defensive war, and that the west is attacking your religion and culture and oppressing it without "just cause". They are practicing their belief, and declaring a holy war against those they view to be oppressing their religion and culture. Whether you agree with them or not, on those specific details, is largely irrelevant. They are practicing their faith, with great zeal and authenticity, even if you disagree with it.

You want to defend your view of things? Good, have at it. But when you pretend that your view is the only one, and that only the people that agree with you are "real" Muslims, it rings quite disingenuous. There are Muslims out there, who we should be wary of, and we don't have to look very far to figure this out. There are those who take any criticism of Islam as a direct attack on Muslims, and respond with wonton violence and destruction, believing themselves to be participating in their faith. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to agree with it, but don't patronize us by attempting to deny it and pretend their faith has nothing to do with it. It is insulting to our intelligence, and yours, and we both KNOW better.

These people tell us why they are doing what they are doing, "In the name/defense of the prophet!" or "In the name/defense of Allah!", how could anyone deny what they really believed? Sure, it is fine to disagree with it, but don't do us the disservice of pretending they didn't REALLY believe. That kind of argument serves no discernible purpose, and is really an insult to everyone involved in the conversation. As far as the RELIGION of Islam is concerned, I consider it no different from any other, and the litmus test is less what the text and believers claim to be true; and more the way they behave and treat other people.

I don't give a flying fuck what the text says, or what individuals say they believe; I care what the majority of it adherents do to each other and outsiders. So far, on this litmus test, your religion fails spectacularly. You can, and probably will, come back with a parade of excuses and appeals to authority; but ALL of it pales against the application we see in the REAL world. So, until you are ready to honestly and truly discuss the religion, ideology, and culture that is Islam; I would recommend you sit down, shut up, and let the grown ups talk.

CyberLN's picture
Touché, Travis, touché.

Touché, Travis, touché.

ThePragmatic's picture
Very well put, Travis.

Very well put, Travis.

watchman's picture
"Watchman, I will reply you

"Watchman, I will reply you later…"

then ,of course ,I shall wait......

....until the last syllable of recorded time.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Maryam - "As I said before

Maryam - "As I said before How can Islam promotes terrorism when it forbids to cut even a tree without any valid reason."

Because terrorists tend to have reasons why they do what they do, and I'm pretty sure they feel those reasons are valid justification for their actions. I'm not saying I agree with any given reason;, or even if I agree, I'm not saying I agree that it is good enough justification. But I don't think it is too much of a stretch to suggest terrorists believe their reasons justify their actions.

Or when an Islamic man preforms an honor killing of a family member. Sure I think it is crazy. But I'm pretty the man who did it believes he has a valid justification; which incidentally comes from your religion. You can cry all day long that they don't understand the religion, and maybe you are even right; but they sure as hell think they understand it, and they are acting on it. This is what religion does to people (and not just your religion), it makes otherwise sane people do crazy shit.

secularhumanism's picture
The only "misconception" with

The only "misconception" with Islam is how vicious, terrible, and utterly militaristic it is for anyone who isn't muslim. Of all the world's religions, Islam really is the worst. All you need to do is read the koran- honor killing, slavery, mutilation, lying- it's all explicitly in there. It can't be denied, just worked around with mealy excuses by apologists. The one great thing about being an Atheist is that you don't have a horse in this race, and can read any books you want free from any prejudice other than the fact that there is absolutely nothing to indicate the "holy books" are anything other than objects of a human culture.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Oh I don't think it is any

Oh I don't think it is any worse than Christianity. The thing is in these places you have Islam running around essentially unchecked. When we had unchecked Christianity, it was pretty bad too.

Travis Hedglin's picture
Indeed, people have always

Indeed, people have always had to drag these barbaric religions kicking and screaming into acceptable modern morality. It WILL happen with Islam as well, as the OP demonstrates, but not until the cultures it dominates begin to push back against the primitive and asinine barbarism from whence it sprang.

ThePragmatic's picture
Yes, I agree.

Yes, I agree.
Christianity was no better in the past. Islam is just behind in changing to a generally more benign interpretation, compared to the rest of the worlds religions. But for anything to happen, Muslims themselves have to put their foot down.


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