Proof for the Torah
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The freedom is only a new thing. Up until the twentieth century, Jewish history is one big flow of catastrophes and bloodshed. Plz do some research on Jewish history. Recently the Jews have also began their return to Israel, see prophecy #9, bc the redemption is slowly starting (that's also why the exile loosened up recently as you noted).
I think many countries, peoples, religious group etc, can describe their history as one big flow of catastrophes and bloodshed. I will agree the holocaust was particularly bad certainly in raw numbers, if not percentage wise and was definitely more recent in terms of the scale of history we are talking about. Plenty of religious groups that also suffered far worse, (they just simply are not around anymore in any appreciable numbers or in culture influence.)
Jewish people have suffered greatly, but they have no monopoly on it, it is a very safe vague prophecy to say "our people will suffer greatly," In ancient religious history just about every religious group did at one point or another. Plenty of those religious groups had people told of prophecies of a return to their lands and an abatement of suffering. Some were right, and already had that, others were wrong and were mostly or completely wiped out, etc.
Sir, you gotta learn Jewish history. It is practically unparalleled by any other nation (maybe some African slaves etc)
To be honest, you guys sound so stupid. There's no reason you should represent atheist views - it would be better if you would just leave up the debating to the intelligent atheists. You guys haven't the slightest clue about history and insist on arguing with all the scientists just for the sake of defending your beliefs. If you have nothing smart to say, then better just stay quiet - seriously.
Have the dead sea scrolls been dated by scientist? Is faith the only way to prove your god is real? Do you have testable evidence for a god? Can it pass peer review? Since you believe in slavery like your god does, do you believe in mass murder and rape of young girls? Your god condones slavery, mass murder and rape of young girls. If you can't answer my questions, I'm not going to call you stupid.
Is that the burning man before it's set on fire?
That got a good laugh out of me, thanks CyberLN.
That is a big strawman, I will probably use that image in the future :)
We do not pretend to represent atheist views.
We are just some atheist on a board that likes to debate theist. Atheist have no "central" view, stop thinking of us as a religion. The only thing that unites us atheist is: we do not believe in the commonly accepted definition of god(s). Even some people that call themselves atheist may erroneously have the wrong definition of atheist and god in mind. That is fine too, there is no rules, there is no one that says "this is the way it is supposed to be."
Calling me, or us stupid is fine, that is your opinion.
It is my opinion that: it sounds like you are getting frustrated with our answers, and are attempting to dismiss them in your head, instead of examining them. That is fine too, I did not expect you to suddenly abandon your faith talking to us and become an atheist. I just enjoy debating with theist like you, even if you do call me stupid :)
I am well aware that changing your entire worldview is a very scary, and can be painful process, you have powerful psychological reasons to cling to your current worldview even tighter. If I suddenly found very powerful compelling evidence that your god is real, I would be very scared as well, but I would like to think my own logic would dictate that I must accept it, even if it is highly uncomfortable and scary.
You can't prove something with a history book.
Proud Jewish Boy - What a lovely Ad Hominem attack again, all because you do not like conflicting opinions.
Allow me to make something clear, you came here and started a thread saying you could prove the Torah... I believe every member has constantly asked for actual evidence to which you have not delivered.
Essentially it's like us coming to your home and saying we can disprove Judaism because we have read Christopher Hitchens book 'God isn't great!
You ask for the evidence and we just recite quotes from the book, calling out prophecies when anything in the book vaguely matches something that may have happened in the past.
You ask for evidence from another book that isn't bias to the the assertion and we ignore your rebuttle.
That is essentially what you've done everytime.
I know it's tough because you are invested in your religion, but you must accept sceptism in something that has little evidence and nothing to support it from other sources that are non bias and relies heavily on faith which by definition is the belief in something that cannot be proven.
Allow me to part you with two quotes that will help you in understanding our derision at your assertions from two of the greatest thinkers of our generations...
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" - 'Hitchens Razor by Christopher Hitchens