Questions for Christians

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Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. "As to #3, until a god is

1. "As to #3, until a god is proven there is no god. So it isn't arrogant on my behalf." - I believe that in order for an idea to be true, there must be facts/evidence to support it. The idea that "there is no god, never was a god, and never will be a god. Therefore all religions are incorrect!" is an idea that requires evidence as much as does the idea of that there is a god.
2. "As fo(r) #2, only priest can interpret the bible is a tenet of the anglican church." - How do you know?
3. "As for #1, you have it wrong. To be christian you have to believe one thing, again that has NEVER been proven, that being the resurrection." - What makes you think that it has never been proven. Now, the Resurrection is an idea, and it requires evidence. The gospels, I think, provide. You obviously don't. What makes you think that?
4. "As for #4, you said it was talking to god implying all sorts of things, but prayer is specific by accepted christianity." - Can you clarify the phrase "prayer is specific by accepted christianity." Can I will now clarify myself by saying that when I said praying it alking to God, I meant human give information to God via telepathy.
5. "As for #5, I was pointing out a mistake that you made." - What mistake?

mykcob4's picture
@UnKnown

@UnKnown
Again, BULLSHIT!
I didn't make up a god so I don't have to disprove a god. Until a god is proven there is no god.
I know it is a tenet of the anglican church because I grew up in the anglican church and was subject and learned the rules of the anglican church.
The gospels don't provide any credible evidence of the resurrection. The oldest known bible, the Codex Sianaticus clearly doesn't have a resurrection. The resurrection was added later in other bibles. The resurrection appears in these highly politically edited bibles in Mark 8:31
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-...
This is the only acceptable christian way to pray:Matthew 6:5-6New International Version (NIV)

Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Lesson

Main Point: God wants us to spend time with Him in prayer.

Key Verse:

Jesus often went away to be by Himself and pray. - Luke 5:16
Props: Optional: A prayer bracelet

Background/Review

Say: Jesus had come to earth to bring the kingdom of God to men. Jesus made it clear that things in the kingdom were very, very different than things in the world. In the kingdom of heaven, people who have nothing to offer God are accepted. Those who are meek and peace loving, and those who want what is right will finally have what they long for because Jesus came to conquer sin and death.

As Jesus taught on the mountainside, many people gathered to hear Him. Jesus taught that those who follow Him should never do good things just to call attention to themselves. The good things they do should be done in secret - just between them and God. God sees what we do in secret, and He will reward those things (Matthew 6:4).

Prayer (Matthew 6:5-15)

Say: One of the disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray (Luke 11:1). Jesus said that prayer should not be a way to get attention and praise from people. It should be done with a right heart toward God. It is wrong to pray just to impress people.

“When you pray, do not be like those who only pretend to be holy. They love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners. They want to be seen by others. What I’m about to tell you is true. They have received their complete reward.

“When you pray, go into your room. Close the door and pray to your Father, who can’t be seen. He will reward you. Your Father sees what is done secretly.” - Matthew 6:5-6
That would be like a husband who only talked to his wife when other people were around. In public, he would tell her how wonderful she was, so people would think he was a good husband. But when they were alone, he would never say one word to her. Is that how a good husband treats his wife? No. Would she believe that he truly loved her? No. His actions show his true feelings. If he really did love her, he couldn’t wait to talk to her. He would make time to be alone with her so he could talk to her and listen to her. Jesus continued teaching:

“When you pray, do not keep talking on and on the way ungodly people do. They think they will be heard because they talk a lot. Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need even before you ask Him.” - Matthew 6:7-8
The original word that Jesus used (battalogeo) means don’t say same the same words over and over again (vain repetition). Big, fancy words do not impress God, nor does repeating a memorized prayer over and over.

Prayer is the time you spend being real with God. It is when you pour our your heart to Him. You can tell God anything and everything. You can tell Him when you are angry or hurt or disappointed. You can talk to Him about the good stuff that happened in your day. He is with you every minute, so it should be easier to talk to Him than to your best friend or even your mom or dad. Prayer is also when you stop to listen to His voice (John 10:27).

Jesus gave a perfect example of how to pray. We call it “The Lord’s Prayer.” Lots of people can say this from memory, but remember, Jesus just said not to repeat the same words over and over. Reciting this prayer does not take the place of heart-felt conversations with your heavenly Father. Jesus wanted to tell His disciples the type of prayer to pray. These things are the type of things that God will honor in your prayers.

“This is how you should pray.
“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
may Your name be honored.
May Your kingdom come.
May what You want to happen be done
on earth as it is done in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
just as we also have forgiven those who sin against us.
Keep us from falling into sin when we are tempted.
Save us from the evil one.’
“Forgive people when they sin against you. If you do, your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive people their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.” - Matthew 6:9-15
Teacher Note: When reciting the Lord’s Prayer, we stop short of verses 14 and 15. Jesus took the time to elaborate on forgiveness, and we must not overlook it. Forgiveness MUST be a part of our prayer time! Citizens of God’s kingdom understand the forgiving, saving grace of God, and can likewise extend grace to those who have wronged them.

In Jesus’ prayer, He started by calling God His Father. If you have faith in God, and have put your trust in Him, He is your Father. You are adopted into God’s family. You, too, have the right to call Him Father, or Daddy. Then Jesus praised His Father’s name. This is the best way to begin a prayer! Praise honors God, and it reminds you that God can do anything! Next, Jesus asked for the Kingdom to break out on earth. In Jesus’ model prayer, God and His kingdom come first (Matthew 22:36-37). Then Jesus asked for His needs to be met that day. It is completely right to pray for what you need. The Bible says that every good and perfect gift comes from your heavenly Father (James 1:17). Next, Jesus said to ask for forgiveness and to forgive others. Jesus explained that if we are not willing to forgive others, God will not forgive us. Finally, Jesus said to ask God to keep us from sinning; this comes only by God’s grace (Titus 2:11-12).
You ommited Greeks, the Dutch, and Italianss in your original post among others.

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. "I didn't make up a god so

1. "I didn't make up a god so I don't have to disprove a god. Until a god is proven there is no god." - I understand what you are saying, but what I am saying is this: Until ANY evidence/proof comes forward, there is neither no god nor is there a god. It is uncertain whether there is a god or not. To prove any of these options requires evidence, as it is an idea.
2. "I know it is a tenet of the anglican church because I grew up in the anglican church and was subject and learned the rules of the anglican church." - So how do I know that your church is right and my church is wrong, or the other way round.
3. Yeah, Jesus' point when praying was basically being humble about it.

LogicFTW's picture
You did a double negative

You did a double negative there in the first point. No No god, to paraphrase.

Rational, reasonable basic logic dictates that the default when unsure on something should be the absence of something, the absence of an idea.

None of us are arguing that magical rainbow farting unicorns exist, the reasonable default position to have there is that they do not exist until proven. You cannot prove for sure that their are no unicorns at all that exist, (rainbow farting or gold farting or any derivation of.) But people do not go around saying well you must prove that no unicorns at all exist in an argument trying to say that their rainbow farting unicorn does exist.

Forcing people to prove a negative, would force everyone to be constantly stuck trying to disprove every idea no matter how insane. "prove to me that I do not have 3 arms!" Prove to me that you do not owe me 1 million dollars! etc.

2. Damn good question, how DO YOU know your church is right and the other similar, but different one is wrong?

3. I love it when theist bring up prayer, they really paint them selves into a corner on that one.

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. I believe that in order

1. I believe that in order for an idea to be true, it must have evidence. The idea that there is no god is still an idea that needs proof. The idea that there is a god(s) is an idea that need proof. Until either has been conclusively solved, it is uncertain whether there is one or not a.k.a there is neither a god, nor is the not one. It is uncertain and inconclusive.
2. "Damn good question, how DO YOU know your church is right and the other similar, but different one is wrong?" - With it being compared to the bible, assuming it is true.
3. "I love it when theist bring up prayer, they really paint them selves into a corner on that one." - Have I?

mykcob4's picture
We don't know if an invisible

We don't know if an invisible billion miles purple cow is hiding behind the sun controlling everything either but we can say that it isn't there until proven! Same fucking thing. Until a god is proven, there is no god!
YOU aren't fucking anglican. All anglican churches are subject to an organization that dictates what the churches do!
BTW, do you know why UK churches are anglican and American churches of the same denomination are episcopal?
In England, the head of the church is the king. When America revolted and denounced king/English rule, American anglicans had to establish a new head of church!

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. "YOU aren't fucking

1. "YOU aren't fucking anglican. All anglican churches are subject to an organization that dictates what the churches do!" - I see what you are saying. I believe that anglican organisation has the final word, however people to attend anglican churches are allowed to interpret and question what is being preached.
2. "We don't know if an invisible billion miles purple cow is hiding behind the sun controlling everything either but we can say that it isn't there until proven!" - Since there is no proof of whether it is there or not, it is inconclusive of whether it is or not.

LogicFTW's picture
1. "I believe that in order

1. "I believe that in order for an idea to be true, it must have evidence."
Great, what is your standard of evidence? Most rational people will say repeatable, testable, material evidence that they can see and interact with. Whoops, your god does not meet that standard. So your definition of "evidence" is different, it must include: because a person told you so, that a book, (no matter how insane it is,) told you so. Not real evidence. Well gee, I can write a book and go around telling people that a green haired leprechaun god that snorts cherry dust exists, now you gotta disprove it, except by your standards, if I write a book and tell you about it, you cannot disprove it. Do you understand yet, why: repeatable, testable evidence is so important? Why you do not go about attempting to prove the negative, but why the wild claim requires the burden of proof?

2. "With it being compared to the bible, assuming it is true."
You reinforce my point that all I have to do for evidence is write a book. Does not matter if the book is insane, riddled with reason/logic errors contradictions and out right prove-able falsehoods.

3. "I love it when theist bring up prayer, they really paint them selves into a corner on that one." - Have I?

You have simply by mentioning prayer, a testable result that points to either: god ignores you, (pointing out a major flaw in your religion,) or there is no god.

Prayer is a god related activity that people take part in expecting results. We can actually measure that. Many large scientific studies have taken place on prayer. Guess what they found: Prayer has zero effect on outcomes beyond the expected random chance results. Additionally no special sect of religion has seen a spike in miracles over the expected random chance normal rate. For example: a person with stage 3 lymphoma has say a 1 in 10 of the cancer going into remission with the treatment they are receiving, They studied thousands of these cases, and found the ones that did pray still only had a 1 in 10 rate of remission. Exactly the same rates as the ones that did not pray. They even did studies where people would pray for someone w/o their knowledge, still the 1 in 10 cancer rate. And the expected zero rate of a miracle such as a limb regrowing, was still exactly that. Zero.

Theist often respond with "god works in mysterious ways" or "you cannot trick god" To which I respond: I pray for all cancer victims, that they them selves have prayer, or their family/friends do. Whoops! Did I just force god to save people that pray to him to have the same survival rates as those that do not pray to him but some other god or no god? Damn, that is some power I got. Or maybe, just maybe the whole idea of prayer is ridiculous because THERE IS NO GOD.

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. "Great, what is your

1. "Great, what is your standard of evidence?" - Good evidence? But enough evidence to be conclusive/
2. "Whoops, your god does not meet that standard." - Well is there repeatable, testable, material evidence that they can see and interact for the assassination of Caesar?
3. "Well gee, I can write a book and go around telling people that a green haired leprechaun god that snorts cherry dust exists, now you gotta disprove it, except by your standards, if I write a book and tell you about it, you cannot disprove it." - You being a witness to it is evidence. Crap evidence, but evidence nonetheless. This evidence is to count for next to nothing.
4. "You reinforce my point that all I have to do for evidence is write a book. Does not matter if the book is insane, riddled with reason/logic errors contradictions and out right prove-able falsehoods." - The book is evidence, but shit evidence.
5. "You have simply by mentioning prayer, a testable result that points to either: god ignores you, (pointing out a major flaw in your religion,) or there is no god." - https://carm.org/why-does-god-answer-prayer-for-some-and-not-others
6. "Prayer is a god related activity that people take part in expecting results. We can actually measure that. Many large scientific studies have taken place on prayer. Guess what they found: Prayer has zero effect on outcomes beyond the expected random chance results." - Can you please link me some of these studies. Just because something has a random chance of occurring doesn't God isn't behind it.
7. You don't 'force' God to do anything.

LogicFTW's picture
1. What is your definition of

1. What is your definition of good evidence? Enough evidence to be conclusive? You do not get to be vague on this, either you believe evidence can come from a book with no testable evidence for just about all the wild assertions it makes or you don't.

2. No there is no such evidence, of course not, just about all history not verified by archaeologist work has a weak standard of evidence. However a man getting betrayed and assassinated in a position of power is at least not a wild claim, we all know that happens frequently, Caesar assassination is not giving us a bunch of rules on how to live, or to do war in his name, or go to church every sunday and donate money to.

3. agree 100% unsubstantiated witness testimony should account for next to nothing. Making all holy books works of fiction by that standard.

4. Okay, I can go with it is "shit evidence"

5. Read that page, they basically said god does not answer prayers. To paraphrase: god has a plan for you, god is all good, for the good of you, god does not answer prayers, God rewards the faithful in the afterlife, pray to god to get closer to him. So, as these guys explain it, praying is only to get closer to god, praying for better results is a waste of time. The reward for being good is in the afterlife, (damn convenient for the founders of religion that the proof of reward is in the afterlife!) When a christian says "I will pray for you" they really mean I will do shit, because prayer is only for me getting closer to my god. (By talking to an invisible man that never answers back.)

6. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/opinion/faithbased-medicine.html
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2005/07/25/a_pr...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-09-cancer_x.htm

I assume you meant: "Just because something has a random chance of occurring doesn't mean God isn't behind it"
It does not surprise me you want to give god credit for random chance. The same god that gives the same survival rate to murders, rapist, atheist, pedophile priest in your own religion that spreads "gods word," people of other religions etc. All certainly points that in this life, (the only life we have proof of) their is zero advantage in believing your particular god.

7. you are right I do not, because god does not exist.

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. Yeah, enough evidence to

1. Yeah, enough evidence to be conclusive.
2. So, just because something doesn't have "repeatable, testable, material evidence" doesn't mean it is not true.
3. Yes unsubstantiated evidence should be counted next to nothing. But I do not believe the bible is that.
4. "Read that page" - What page?
5. "Just because something has a random chance of occurring doesn't mean God isn't behind it" - Yeah cheers.
6. God always answers prayers. Most of the time the answer is 'no' though. I don't know much about this subject. I will look it up.

mykcob4's picture
@UnKnown

@UnKnown
Under anglican and episcopalian tenet, lay people cannot and are not permitted to interpret scripture. That is just a fact.
You can create any fantasy you want but until it is proven it just doesn't exist, and that is the point of the purple cow.
Like someone said on this thread but YOU just didn't get, If something isn't proven the reality is by defacto reasona the fact. No god has been proven so the defacto reasona is that there is no god.

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. "Under anglican and

1. "Under anglican and episcopalian tenet, lay people cannot and are not permitted to interpret scripture. That is just a fact." - Proof?
2. "You can create any fantasy you want but until it is proven it just doesn't exist, and that is the point of the purple cow." - Okay, let's say that you said there is a purple cow behind the moon. That is witness testimony. Proof. Shitty proof, but proof nonetheless. Now I will ask what makes you say that, you might say, I saw a vision, or that a satellite saw it. Now, the argument goes on and on until either I have a reasonable objection against you that you can't answer, or I can't think of an objection against. However, just because the argument is over doesn't mean that it is conclusive.

xenoview's picture
Unknown

Unknown
Do you pray like Jesus said to pray?

Matthew 6:5-15
And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.

mykcob4's picture
No xenoview, no modern

No xenoview, no modern christian prays like they were instructed. They all pray for show and they want everyone else to pray as a sign of obedience.
There is only one prayer accepted in the christian theology and only one way to pray that is in secret, but fucking christians make prayer a public spectacle and want everyone else to pray and be obedient and dominate those people.
What I really hate are the "vigils"! What a crock! A kid goes missing and some idiot declares that there will be an all-night vigil to pray for their safety! That defies christian doctrine. I know because I had it pounded into my head by priest and nuns for years!
You can't pray for things! You can't pray for god to do anything other than forgive you and others. You can't pray that your fucking football team will win. You can't pray for rain. You can't pray for the return of a lost child. You can't pray for anything that isn't in the lords prayer according to christian doctrine!
These idiot christians use prayer as if it really is something, like a wizard conjuring up magic.
It is a bunch of bullshit.

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. "no modern christian prays

1. "no modern christian prays like they were instructed. They all pray for show and they want everyone else to pray as a sign of obedience." - Proof?
2. "There is only one prayer accepted in the christian theology and only one way to pray that is in secret" - When it says to pray in secret, it means that you shouldn't pray for show.
3. "fucking christians make prayer a public spectacle and want everyone else to pray and be obedient and dominate those people." - Proof?

Joshua Thanopoulos's picture
1. When Jesus said that "you

1. When Jesus said that "you must not be like the hypocrites", he means do be pray for your pride.
2. The Lord's prayer to be an example, not a word by word, literal 'have to prayer this prayer only and exactly'.

Brock Sandoval's picture
This debate is frustrating, I

This debate is frustrating, I find it truly sad and a waste of biological material that there are "modern" humans that refuse to accept they might be wrong when presented with proper evidence and logic. This really leads me to conclude that the presence of religion in one's mind is truly parasitic and represents clearly, the goal of a totalitarian group of leaders and their success.

curtisabass's picture
Mykcob4 , I must disagree

Mykcob4 , I must disagree with part of what you said. According to Matthew Jesus said we could pray for anything AND we would get it. But, yeah the christians are annoying with their constant prayers. Late last year a relative was organizing on Facebook a mass prayer for all the children in the world with cancer. So what am I supposed to pray FOR? Pray that the sadistic monster who afflicted these innocents suddenly utters a divine "oops, my bad"? What does she (the relative) expect to happen? All the prayers in the world have had no more effect than the wind coming out their other end. Religionists need to get up off their knees and do a little heavy lifting themselves. Donate money, volunteer time, petition, make calls, protest, act up. Don't grovel and wring your hands begging your imaginary friend to make it all better. How about a little evidence based practices, folks.

mykcob4's picture
But Dancing Fool jesus said

But Dancing Fool jesus said that there is only one way to pray.

bigbill's picture
I guess ki would have let

I guess ki would have let things take there course, because Jesus was offering himself for humanities sins. So there is a religious aspect here. AS to answer your question on what denomination is correct I feel that they all do contribute in a way. For the geographic differences that you see is just that the globe is a big place spread out and the peoples there cater to that regions beliefs. A non Christian shouldn`t have to worry about burning in hell if he is virtuous, that person should be able to live there life out without be subjected to ridicule. As for praying I always felt that is showing our reliance on god, It is showing that we appeal to a higher power other then ourselves. As for the Muslim population I feel there is a need in the religion for some modernity, Not to be so on fire for the teachings of the koran and Muhammad To accept people on there character not there religion. .

xenoview's picture
Question for christians.

Question for christians. Which creation story do you believe in, Genesis 1 or Genesis 2?

Dtsellers's picture
1. Of course.

1. Of course.
2. All
3. Not at all. As it should be.
4. What is a non Christian good person? If you mean a worldly ethical person I would say morals and ethics are two views which run opposite each other. Like the East is to the west.
5. For the strength to join in his will rather our own.
6. All religion is a expression of beauty ,when expressed soulfuly rather than divisive.

LogicFTW's picture
1. is a bad question because

1. is a bad question because if time travel were possible you would have to deal with time travel paradoxes.
2. If all christian denominations are correct how do you account for the disagreements the various denominations have on key points? Who is right who is wrong? These are not all minor details. Its like saying all shades of blue are blue, yes, but they are not the same. If someone wanted light blue, and you paint there house dark blue, they are going to be very upset, because they are NOT all the same.
3. religions are supposed to be different in different parts of the world? It is by design? Why would a god that is all powerful, all knowing, and all good, demand people to follow/worship him, but intentionally create different religions with wildly different interpretations of their god? If that is okay, why follow the bible at all? Or any particular denomination, and just make up your own version of god that works for you?
4. You avoided the question, let me rephrase the question for the OP: should a non christian automatically burn in hell no matter what they do? What about the billions of people that ever lived that never even heard of the christian god?
5. Why do we need to join your particular god's will?
6. I assume you are saying any religion is fine as long as it is "soulful" instead of divisive. Who decides what is soulful and what is divisive? I can point to plenty of examples of christians acting very divisive. And plenty of Islamic people that are very soulful, (in my opinion,) If any religion is fine, why pick a particular one? Why not just be soulful, and skip reading a long tedious and mostly boring book, why not skip going to church and praying?

"All religion is a expression of beauty" ? Are you sure you want to go with that? What about the extremist religion ISIS/ISIL uses? What about the crusades?

What about: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvx4gp/watch-our-hbo-episode-about-ug...

Dtsellers's picture
1. Time travel?

1. Time travel?
2 and 3. Humanity is much like a garden. Each society brings forth its fruits and as a whole we partake of those we find agreement with and those we don't eventually fall from the vines of life. I can't imagine a humanity which all produced the same fruit. How horrible an existence. Why on earth do you feel as if all men should express the goodness of their soul in the same measure? It is by contrast which beauty manifests.
4. Those outside of morality are as those who build a fire with no promise as to its purpose. The fire raises and consumes itself in a meaningless display of unawareness. Those blind to a moral direction consume themselves in simple indulgence in common with beasts.
5. You dont have to do anything you dont wish to. God does not say do this for I have said so, but live this. And as a man who climbs a mountain needs no witness as to what he has gained, god is realized through action within a moral field of play. God needn't command, he rather woos us with his beauty, he gently knocks at the doors of our hearts and awaits his acceptance.
6. To be soulful is to take ones proper place, which is always last. If one should say otherwise is divisive.

As to your last, religion is ment to fulfill us, not condemn us. Much evil is done in the name of religion as well as other things. Never trust an angry man who prays for peace.

LogicFTW's picture
1. you said "ofcourse" to the

1. you said "ofcourse" to the original time travel question of saving this jesus character from crucifixion. I was just commenting the orignal question from the OP is kind of a lousy question because it involves time travel.

2. If you are cool with difference when it comes to different societies especially religion, why bother follow any particular religion? Why not become atheist, if all of people's differences when it comes to religion is a "fruit" and diversity is good. (I think celebrating each others differences is a great idea, lets do that instead of worshipping some god that makes rules about how people should act/be.

4. By your other postings you said morality is god created, how can we be outside of morality if he created morality as an all powerful being?

5. "God's word" a confusing contradictory book that has been edited 100's of times, fragmented by 100's of off shoots of similar ideas to tell everyone how to "live this" that lacks any shred of real testable evidence of its many wild claims, with plenty of reasoning flaws and logic holes. Why does god get credit for everything we decide is beautiful? And then that becomes evidence of god?

6. Its a person that follows god, that persons place, to be last? Okay, if their is a line for water in the middle of the desert, we are all dying of thirst, you don't mind if I cut you in line for water because some invisible man indirectly told you to do it? Even if it looks like their wont be enough water to go around? Those last in line lose out?

I am all for peace, and setting aside differences, but the moment you think you are less important than others, that you should go last, is a very illogical place to be. Everyone is just as important as everyone else. If you do not believe that, and that a true soulful person place is to be last, why not sign a donor card and kill yourself in a way that preserves all donatable organs? There is a huge need for healthy organs, you could literally save and/or greatly improve dozens of lives. Why dont you? Committing suicide is a sin? Even if a dozen lives are saved?

mykcob4's picture
@Dtsellers

@Dtsellers
You said, " morals and ethics are two views which run opposite each other."
Absolute BULL-FUCKING-SHIT!
This is yet ANOTHER attempt by a christian to revise definition to suit a fucked up agenda.
You, idiots, make me sick. You don't know what "morality" is, otherwise you would never be christian. Christianity is wholly hypocritical. Genocide, racism, prejudice, sexism, homophobia, militant, violence, hatred, tyranny, all hallmarks of christianty. Religion is no more the expression of beauty than war is. Religion is a tool to enslave and secure the obedience of the masses through guilt and peer pressure and even the threat of violence. EVERY religion is and has been used in that way and for that purpose.
Prayer doesn't do a damn thing and never did. You goddamned christians don't even pray the way and for the reasons that you were commanded to. Prayer is just a fucking show and nothing more!
"JOIN HIS WILL" Pshaw! PROVE there is a god that even has a will for you to fucking join!
BTW "morality" is a construct of society, it doesn't come from religion or any god. Ethics and morality are the same fucking thing or so close that they are hardly distinguishable!

eth·ics
ˈeTHiks/Submit
noun
1.
moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.
"medical ethics also enter into the question"
synonyms: moral code, morals, morality, values, rights and wrongs, principles, ideals, standards (of behavior), value system, virtues, dictates of conscience
"your so-called newspaper is clearly not burdened by a sense of ethics"
2.
the branch of knowledge that deals with moral principles.

mor·al
ˈmôrəl/Submit
noun
plural noun: morals
1.
a lesson, especially one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.
"the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has"
synonyms: lesson, message, meaning, significance, signification, import, point, teaching
"the moral of the story"
2.
a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.
"the corruption of public morals"
synonyms: moral code, code of ethics, (moral) values, principles, standards, (sense of) morality, scruples
"he has no morals"

Get an education!

Dtsellers's picture
Morals are from a creator.

Morals are from a creator. Ethics are from man. Secularism has certainly borrowed from religion their words but not their definition. They have rather changed the definition to fit their own views such as marriage most recently.

What is moral is what is true. Secularism would have moral to be fair. It takes on an individual aspect a prideful View which puts the importance upon individuals rather than the bond between them which is not their own. I.e. love. Proving throughout eternity that it is the meek who shall inherit the earth

mykcob4's picture
No Dtsellers

No Dtsellers
Morals come from society. That is a fact. Morals and ethics are essentially the same things. You don't get to redefine things to fit your narrative! A false definition of love of morality and ethics is your tool to create something that is completely and utterly false.
BTW christians have committed more crimes and crimes of all types than any other demographic, historically and present!
http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html
http://www.wiringthebrain.com/2011/06/where-do-morals-come-from.html
Christians commit more crimes and more violent crimes than any other type.

Dtsellers's picture
Each Society creates its laws

Each Society creates its laws and legislators in order to guide its citizens into a certain idea which they find to be perfect for themselves. But as We Know one societies marriage is another societies rape such as child marriages in India compared to the ethics of the West.

Therefore your definition of what is moral is certainly not moral but only ethical in that there is no one truth but competing truths which leaves room for descent and disunion. a breeding ground to portray evil upon each other.

Where there is no dissent within the air in light of morality there is among ethical men

A band of thieves may rob the whole world as long as they remain ethical towards each other, yet their intentions are immoral

Semper fi devil.

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