Questions for Christians

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Dtsellers's picture
Proof to you maybe measurable

Proof to you maybe measurable fact but facts alone could never prove anything.

Truth is proof.

Facts are just facts, they are blind Lanes, dead ends, they only say that what is can never be otherwise.

You could spend your life in the collection of fact. the rain falls from the sky, leaves fall from the trees. But when we come upon the truth of gravity, we can dispense in our collection of infinite fact, for we have come upon one truth that covers a Multiplicity of fact.

Truth therefore brings us to a place of emancipation in our minds, it brings man Joy, and lightens his yoke. Such realizations shed light to the adage of the truth setting you free.( see Matthew 11:29)

God can never be found in facts alone, he cannot be found in part, he must be realized in his completeness, in truth, and Truth can only be realized within yourself. (I.e. freedom.)

xenoview's picture
Quoting the bible doesn't

Quoting the bible doesn't prove your god is real. Only testable evidence, that can pass peer review will prove a god. I'm waiting for evidence your god is real. Humans created religion to control other humans. Humans created the gods they worship to answer the unknown and mysteries of life.

Dtsellers's picture
I don't recall quoting

I don't recall quoting anything.

Are we to assume your opinions of Christianity as fact?

xenoview's picture
Christianity is no different

Christianity is no different than any other religion, all of them seek to control their believes and try to convert non-believers. Also religious leaders want the followers money and blindly follower their leadership. You did quote Matthew in one of your postings.

Dtsellers's picture
Well that certainly is one

Well that certainly is one way to view religion. I think it's safe to assume that all groups religious or otherwise have there less thoughtful actors.

But if this is all there was to religion it would have died off the vines of life millenniums ago.

If one's eye could only see the Injustice of things it would lose its full function.

LogicFTW's picture
Proof to you in most aspects

Proof to you in most aspects in your life is measurable in facts, evidence, sound reasoning and logic. Why do you look both ways before you cross the street? Why do you stop when the stop light shows red? When you read this post you used reasoning, deduction to find your way to this post, a reply goes underneath the original posting etc. These are all conclusions using those tools of evidence, facts, sound reasoning and logic. You do not do these things on faith, you do not do these things because some book told you to do it on faith.

You are twisting words and definitions when you say "truth is proof" to meet the conclusions you want to reach. Gravity is not truth, it is a well supported theory, a good one to follow, but if we did not challenge gravity and break that "truth" we would of never put a man on the moon. Gravity is just gravity, not a truth.

Deciding to believe a truth that some book or other person told you about is not freedom, it is intellectually stunting your self to further discovery and advancement. Sure you may gain euphoric feelings, joy and a feeling of burdens eased, I can point you to some drugs that also do this very well. It certainly does not set you free, it shackles you. it forces you to use your intellect to defend an idea that has a million and one holes in it, that is utterly illogical, unreasonable and without provable evidence.

It is a scary thing when people believe some truth people with an agenda told them over facts, and then that person rationalizes away why what they now believe with pretty but hollow saying like "truth is proof"

Pretty convenient this invisible "god" has had people write to explain away why evidence facts, sound reasoning and logic does not apply to this wild outlandish insane idea of the god depicted in the king james bible.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Dtsellers - Sorry son, but

Dtsellers - Sorry son, but you do come across as a fake to me.

Great, another theist telling members they are fake. Same old story.

Dtsellers's picture
A fake atheist? Anything's

A fake atheist? Anything's possible

xenoview's picture

What do you mean by fake Atheist? All it takes to be an Atheist is to have a lack of belief in any gods. Dtsellers, I bet your an Atheist to all other gods but your god. Is faith a reliable way to prove a god?

Dtsellers's picture
Perhaps I read your post

Perhaps I read your post wrong? It seems you are implying that theist on this board refer to the atheists as fakes?

xenoview's picture

You brought up the fake Atheist. So tell me what a fake Atheist is. Do you agree with me about you being an Atheist to all other gods, or do you believe all the other gods are real?

LogicFTW's picture
As an atheist, I am the same

As an atheist, I am the same as a theist, except I believe in 1 less god than theist do.

It is not the exact quote, but it is one of my favorites.

It pairs well with, tell me why you (as a theist) disbelieve all other gods, and I can use your same arguments as to why I do not believe in yours.

xenoview's picture

Why should I believe your a marine? Maybe your a fake marine. Prove your a marine.

Dtsellers's picture
If you were a marine you

If you were a marine you would know :-) if you are not what's it really matter to me?

Dtsellers's picture
If you were a marine you

If you were a marine you would know :-) if you are not what's it really matter to me?

mykcob4's picture

You are just avoiding the question.
What are you, 16?
I bet you are just some young punk poser. We have had a slew of them.
Oh Geesh, school is out and the wannabes are coming out of the fucking woodwork.
You don't know shit!

Dtsellers's picture
I see we're back to square

I see we're back to square one with you.

Tell me, are you able to communicate a thought outside of profanity?

Mos 6173
Honorably discharged from the Marine Corps 1994
Honorably discharged from the Army 1996
Honorably discharged from the Air Force 1999

Hmh362. New river air station( Camp Lejeune)

Three theaters of war and a multiplicity of detachments and deployments. you have my name and Squadron you can look it up for yourself

Usmc deployed southeast Asia Kuwait three stars Bosnia and invasion of Haiti. 2.4 years sea duty

Army Blackhawk unit Shelbyville Indiana no deployments

Air Force, Grissom Air Force Base. Hercules C-130 Just north of Kokomo Indiana deployed to Kosovo

If you care to do the research this should get you started, warning the salad bar on my chest may depress you.

LogicFTW's picture
You have now proven that you

You have now proven that you are indeed who you say you are, or that you spent a few minutes on the internet borrowing an identity that suits your needs so you do not have to admit you were lying in whole or part.

I avoid arguments of "I am this person" on anonymous forum boards. I do not really care if you are a marine or not, you are an anonymous person hiding behind thousands of miles of wiring. So am I.

If you really got to prove you are a marine you need to provide evidence that can not be easily faked. A recent video of you as obviously a marine with full view of your face, along with another video of your face and then a pan to this thread where we can read it, and see your sign in, would be a good starting point. Much harder to fake that. And I, in no way expect you to make that effort. Hence we are back to arguing I am person x is a silly argument on anonymous forum boards.

mykcob4's picture
Logic I did what you said

Logic I did what you said once and I got crazy people at my front door for months. That is why I don't give personal information about myself anymore. I don't care if he is a Marine or not. It actually makes no difference.
What DOES matter is that he prove his god, substantiate his bible, which he will not and cannot do.
If he could just accept that there is no proof of a god, that his bible is nothing more than a political propaganda book of lies and deception, we will have accomplished something.
I wish he wouldn't have posted his personal information. I'm sure no one on this board will act crazy, but you never know. It is a bad practice to post personal information. I don't do it anymore. I learned my lesson.
He shouldn't have made false accusations about me, but he certainly shouldn't have posted personal information about that info is true.
I could have asked him questions like how many holes are in a John Watne cracker. Every Marine knows that and you won't find it on the internet, but I don't care if he is a Marine or not. I really don't care about his false accusation of me. What I care about is the issue of the thread which he has turned on its ear with his hyperbole. Trump does the same thing.
The issue is can he prove his god. He can't and won't.

LogicFTW's picture
I assume you know my post was

I assume you know my post was not directed at you.

I am just saying that going into a "I am x person" battle on forums that values anonymity is a silly exercise, to this other supposed marine. That any actual, non easily fakeable proof would requires a near total loss of anonymity. As you pointed out, and I assumed you were already well aware of: the near total loss of anonymity that requires and the silliness of it, when nobody really cares about what you do on these boards when you try to build an argument around it.

I too care about the original discussion of the thread, it started to get derailed with ad hominem attacks which I pointed out.

I hope he did not post real information about himself and later confirm it beyond a reasonable doubt on a publicly accessible, (to read) board. I would recommend he edit his post to delete that information.

However good news for him, I do not hear in the news any cases of atheist going on homicidal towards theist due to difference of opinions about god. We atheist tend to be more grounded is solid reasoning and logic, and do not pander to our emotions like many religion based homicides that occur.

mykcob4's picture
I know it wasn't directed at

I know it wasn't directed at me Logic. I just wanted to tell you what happens when you reveal personal information.

Dtsellers's picture
I'll tell you what shooter, I


LogicFTW's picture
I am not asking you to prove

I am not asking you to prove your marine service. Due to the fact that these are public boards, I would actually recommend you don't.

A VA clinic in Fort Wayne that has an oncology floor that reeks of chemicals and dying is something that could potentially be found on the internet or told to you by someone else. And you also know it is highly unlikely I would visit this hospital my self.

You are just being glib when you say "Or would it be more convincing if I were shooting somebody?" you know that is not what I am looking for or suggesting.

As I said before, a semi hard to fake/steal identity proof would involve:
1. a video of you doing something that is undeniably marine, that also requires a good shot of your face
2. another video showing a clear shot of your face, then a pan to the computer screen showing you scrolling through this thread.

Even the above is fakeable, just harder. (Perhaps you can convince a friend or family member that is a marine to stand in for you on the second video request and feed you information only a marine would know.)

To flip it around, if I told you I was a marine, what evidence would satisfy you that I was indeed a marine? Strongly enough that I can build other arguments around it that you happen to disagree with?

If it helps at all, I think it is definitely possible you are who you say you are, so far you have not tripped up on your purported identity like many others that pretend they are someone they are not. I also know I am no expert on identifying marines.

Just know any arguments that include "because I am a marine" is an unsubstantiated unsupported argument that requires me to just take your anonymous word for it, that you are indeed a marine, and if I believed everyone on these anonymous boards they are who I say they are, I would agree with you that: you would be right to call me a fool.

mykcob4's picture
In my entire career, I have

In my entire career, I have never met any Marine that left the Corps to become a doggy or an airedale.

Dtsellers's picture
Well congratulations you now

Well congratulations you now have although I find this hard to believe. many crew chiefs leave the corps for the Army's warrant officer program in order to become Pilots. It's an easy transition for 6173's already on flight orders.

mykcob4's picture
Okay, I'll give you that. I

Okay, I'll give you that. I just haven't met anyone. I didn't say it didn't happen.
What is your hang up about cuss words? In my entire Marine Corps career, most conversations started and ended with cuss words. It's a given and the norm.
My experiences with Helos were ones of insertion and extraction. So I don't know many Helo crew chiefs. Just in passing.

Dtsellers's picture
I would say cussing can and

I would say cussing can and is acceptable in many circumstances, but in many circumstances it is not.

I'd say in conversation, those where the gravity of reason is prominent, cussing brings such reason a bit of unneeded levity which can only be detrimental in finding any Unity.

Insults, jokes, movies etc, may be perfect forums. It's entertainment value is boundless.

In my life I have never heard my father cuss not once not even when he was hurt, my son cannot say the same about me. But in retrospect I wish that he could.

mykcob4's picture
We have had the cussing

We have had the cussing discussion on this forum before.
I cuss on this forum because it makes christians uneasy.
I also get straight to the skinny. That also makes them uneasy.
This is a debate forum. Polite conversation is not a requirement. If people can't handle cursing, straight and direct talk, then they can't handle facts.
I cuss to force the person I am talking to, to ignore it and answer directly. If they get caught up in cussing, then they will indeed ignore the facts.
On the drill field, we used cussing as a shock tool. It laser focuses recruits to understand where they are and to forget mama. They know that mama can't help them anymore and they have to grow up. It shocks them into reality. I cuss to shock people into reality.
The fact that cussing isn't acceptable for some people means it works.
For you though it gave me information. It told me that you wouldn't freely answer my questions. The fact that you went on a personal attack was also telling. It tells me that you are insecure about your faith. Now you may take that as an insult (I fully expect you to do so) but it isn't. Its merely and experienced observation.
I must apologize for one thing though. If I prompted you to post personal information I am sorry. I really wish you hadn't done that. Like I said I did that years ago on a different forum and I had crazies at my door for months. I won't do it again and sincerely wished you hadn't.
So back to the issue:
These are the OPs original questions and the real issue here:
1)If you could go back in time to when Jesus was being crucified,would you try to save him,or would you stand back and do nothing,since your entire faith depends on him being crucified?

2)Which denomination is right in christianity?

3)Do you think it's just a coincidence that different religions are popular in different parts of the world?

4)What about any non-Christian good person?Should they be burning in Hell?

5)And if it's ultimately God's will what happens,why even bother praying?

6)What about Islam?Do you think Islam is an acceptable religion like Christianity?

Dtsellers's picture
Ok lets start over. I was

Ok lets start over. I was raised to reach a consensus rather than to debate so I understand that I begin this conversation at a disadvantage. I can only Express Christianity as I understand it personally.

That said,

2. All
3. No
4. Yes.
5. Strength
6. Yes.

mykcob4's picture
Okay, that is an HONEST and

Okay, that is an HONEST and RESPECTABLE answer. Thank You! I and many others disagree but that, of course, is all about personal preference.
1) You would go back and try and save jesus.
Well for me and many others there is no proof that jesus actually existed. A matter for debate. Even if he did there isn't any proof that he was a god. A matter for debate.
2) You think that all denominations that are christian are correct. Well, that can't be right because they conflict with each other.
3) You don't think that it is a coincidence that different religions are popular in different parts of the world. The fact that they are only lends to evidence that overall faith in a god is man-made.
4) You don't think non-christians should burn in hell if they are good people. Well, that goes against christianity, not the hell part because hell was added many years later, but in christianity nonbelievers are to be punished by god. That generally means no eternal life.
5) Strength? According to christianity, you can only pray one way and only for one thing. Strength isn't what you can or should pray for. I went into long detail about this on another thread.
"“When you pray, do not be like those who only pretend to be holy. They love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners. They want to be seen by others. What I’m about to tell you is true. They have received their complete reward.

“When you pray, go into your room. Close the door and pray to your Father, who can’t be seen. He will reward you. Your Father sees what is done secretly.” - Matthew 6:5-6
That would be like a husband who only talked to his wife when other people were around. In public, he would tell her how wonderful she was, so people would think he was a good husband. But when they were alone, he would never say one word to her. Is that how a good husband treats his wife? No. Would she believe that he truly loved her? No. His actions show his true feelings. If he really did love her, he couldn’t wait to talk to her. He would make time to be alone with her so he could talk to her and listen to her. Jesus continued teaching:

“When you pray, do not keep talking on and on the way ungodly people do. They think they will be heard because they talk a lot. Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need even before you ask Him.” - Matthew 6:7-8
The original word that Jesus used (battalogeo) means don’t say same the same words over and over again (vain repetition). Big, fancy words do not impress God, nor does repeating a memorized prayer over and over.

Prayer is the time you spend being real with God. It is when you pour our your heart to Him. You can tell God anything and everything. You can tell Him when you are angry or hurt or disappointed. You can talk to Him about the good stuff that happened in your day. He is with you every minute, so it should be easier to talk to Him than to your best friend or even your mom or dad. Prayer is also when you stop to listen to His voice (John 10:27).

Jesus gave a perfect example of how to pray. We call it “The Lord’s Prayer.” Lots of people can say this from memory, but remember, Jesus just said not to repeat the same words over and over. Reciting this prayer does not take the place of heart-felt conversations with your heavenly Father. Jesus wanted to tell His disciples the type of prayer to pray. These things are the type of things that God will honor in your prayers.

“This is how you should pray.
“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
may Your name be honored.
May Your kingdom come.
May what You want to happen be done
on earth as it is done in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
just as we also have forgiven those who sin against us.
Keep us from falling into sin when we are tempted.
Save us from the evil one.’
“Forgive people when they sin against you. If you do, your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive people their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.” - Matthew 6:9-15
Teacher Note: When reciting the Lord’s Prayer, we stop short of verses 14 and 15. Jesus took the time to elaborate on forgiveness, and we must not overlook it. Forgiveness MUST be a part of our prayer time! Citizens of God’s kingdom understand the forgiving, saving grace of God, and can likewise extend grace to those who have wronged them."
6) So you accept Islam as valid a religion as christianity. Well, I think all religions are unfounded and invalid because there aren't based on any facts whatsoever.
So there are my RESPECTFUL responces to your answers.


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