Invariably we have new theists that join the forum only to start threads on issues that have played out so many times it isn't even funny.
I really don't know what to do about this but it is a situational fact.
1) Morality being "objective"
2) The bible being the proof of itself.
3) 500 witnesses of the resurrection.
4) When the new testament was really written.
5) The bible being the only proof that jesus existed.
6) Islam is commanded by the Quran to kill christians.
7) Donald Trump is a good guy no matter what he says or does.
8) Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, really wrote the gospels.
9) The Earth is flat and only 6000 years old.
10) Evolution, Global Warming, are not real or proved.
11) Abortion shouldn't be up to the woman.
12) There is no racism in 'merica.
13) There is a war on christmas.
14) NDEs are real.
15) There is an American culture and everyone should conform to it.
16) The founding fathers were all born again christians.
17) Atheism is a belief.
18) I can't prove a god, can you prove there isn't one?
Etc...and so forth!
All of these issues have been beat to death several times and clearly, christians have been on the shitty end of the stick. Let's be reasonable, they are defending the indefensible.
So for you new members especially you christians he is the results of those discussions. Take notes and get up to speed!
1) Morality is subjective and created by society!
2) The bible cannot and is not proof of its self!
3) There were no witnesses to the resurrection...none!
4) The new testament was written in 325 AED at the Council of Nicea, not before.
5) There are no first-hand accounts of jesus other than the bible...none!
6) The Quran doesn't command muslims to kill christians!
7) Donald Trump is a self-entitled narcissistic moron, a racist chauvinist deviant!
8) Scribes commission by Emporer Constantine wrote the gospels.
9) The Earth is roughly spherical and about 4.54 billion years old.
10) Evolution is a proven fact and Global Warming is real.
11) Abortion should be up to the woman and no one else.
12) Racism is rampant in 'Merica!
13) There is no war on christmas but there is a war on education waged by the christians!
14) NDEs are not REAL quit watching YouTube videos!
15) America enjoys many cultures and there is NO specific culture to conform to, to include a national language.
16) Most of the Founding Fathers were Deist which at the time was code for ATHEIST!
17) Atheism is not, has never been, and never will be a religion or a belief!
18) The burden of proof lies solely with the believer.
There are plenty more but this should get you folks started in the right direction. Remember, the only thing you can bring to the table that will actually interest atheists is valid proof of your god.
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“Remember, the only thing you can bring to the table that will actually interest atheists is valid proof of your god.”
That depends on the atheist.
Abortion lol.
There are many atheists coming to this site for the first time. I'm sure they value the opportunity to learn about all these arguments and how to refute them. I do. Sure they can plow through all the archives, but that's not the same as being in a real debate with people who actually believe this stuff.
Also, I don't think that the arguments you listed have been completely exhausted. There are always new perspectives, new connections to think about.
So Algebe, just what new perspective have ANY theists brought to the table concerning,...hmm...oh I don't know,...morality?
I thought I did a good job with morality back in the day. Arguing it in terms of genetics and what not, that we're born with it, and rehashing the umbrella concept. If I recall correctly, all you said was that everything I said is wrong, and can't substantiate any of it. Then when I did substantiate it...
What theists say is mostly repetitive. What atheists think and say in response is more interesting. I've learned a lot from what people like Chimp, Old Man, Tin Man, and yourself have written in response to Agnostic Believer, for example. Without Agnostic Believer I wouldn't have had that opportunity.
And we have learned from you as well but sometimes it gets really old.
What I said Breezy is that there is no substantiated proof of your assertion. No one has proved that you are born with a sense of morality and if you were that YOUR morality would be exactly the same as everyone else's. Therefore MORALITY is subjective until proven otherwise.
No one on this forum including you has not proved otherwise.
It's a dead horse so we need to stop beating it.
Every day, new folks access AR and look at what folks are posting. They see only a handful of posts presented on the page. Most do not make themselves known. I imagine they wonder the same things that others have wondered. I imagine they have the same questions, the same doubts, the same curiosities.
I would imagine for some, this is the first dip of their toes into looking for answers to those questions and exploring those doubts. I would imagine some are profoundly timid.
Yes, there are iterations and reiterations of the same or similar subjects. And that provides these new folks food for thought at their finger tips.
Perhaps those of us who post regularly here could consider ourselves the guides of those who seek answers and clarifications. Perhaps we should exercise patience with those new folks who come along and ask the same questions answered in the past. After all, they were not here then so didn’t hear the answers. And if the same questions are asked over and over, maybe it is because they are such common issues for folks.
If anyone has become weary of those questions, walk on by. That these questions are asked and subjects raised indicates a need / desire to know and discuss. Who is anyone to challenge someone else’s curiosity?
Mykcob, I enjoyed your post. Most of this stuff is so very true.
Sadly new theists cruising by wont read this topic post anymore than they research their religion. Its not in their focus. Education breeds apostasy. And even when corrected by study and meaningful research, not wishful thinking, they normally run for the hills lest their purity of faith be touched by filthy facts. ( Think fingers in ears shouting "lallalalal I cant hear you")
Theists who visit here seem to be the slightly mad ( because they have unadmitted doubts) The even madder because they really think that atheists just haven't been told the correct version of their truth.
Then there is the intellectually smug who, convinced of their own superiority and faith think they can run rings around us lesser folk, sometimes for their own amusement, and others because they then report their false "victories" to their fawning admirers/flock.
Finally of course there are the "drive by" missionaries who just drop a forum topic and scarper in the sure and certain knowledge that their pearls of wisdom will convert at least one of the heathen.
All of course are sadly mistaken, the unsure find their faith further eroded, the deliverers of salvation find their arguments demolished and their very tenets of religion blasted by true scholarship.
The intellectually smug discover that in this forum there are greater intelligence than theirs at work and to their added horror find out their game plays have been well known, toyed with and found childish and boring.
And the drive by's , well at least members of the AR have a good chat on their topic fields.
The 'good' thing is by visiting many the theist find their doubts redoubled or their hatred tripled!
To be honest, I often get tunnel vision in the comments. Each post I make typically breaks up into ten different conversations with ten different people. So I don't really see what's going outside my own conversations. Who are the other theists?
@John Re: Who are the other theists?
Sadly, there really aren't many on here. And even one or two of the "regulars" are suspected trolls whose posts are pretty much at the point of being ignored now. (Unless, of course, they present a tempting target too good to pass up. lol) The ones you may not notice so much are the "drive-bys", or those who pop in out of nowhere, jump into the deep end of the pool, make a couple of snide comments thinking they are being original, but then realize they can't swim very well in our waters. They then go grasping for the side of the pool and clamber out as quickly as they can, because they felt something brush the legs of their faith under the waters and it scared them. And the only reminder we have of them is a slowly dissipating yellow cloud in the water. So, yeah, it is easy to understand how you miss them when you are actually engaged in serious debates. (Despite how infuriating you can sometimes be. *chuckle*)
Love that allegory there pardner...10 points..."slowly dissipating yellow cloud" LOL....
Exactly Old man and Tin man, my points exactly!