Two JW's brightened my day today.

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Tin-Man's picture
@David K. Re: REV 420

@David K. Re: REV 420

...ROFLMAO.... Bwaaaa-haaaaaa-haaaaaaa...!!!

"... Like, hey, maaaan... Do you, like, you know, have like maybe a goldfish, man? You know, 'cause I could like, uh, you know, maybe make enough for, like, EVERYBODY, maaaaan.... Ooo, ooo, ooo.... Oh, and like maybe a loaf of bread, too? Oh, wow, maaan, that would be, like, totally awesome, dude. Yeah, like, you know, fish sandwiches for everybody... Wooooooow..... Oh, and don't worry about buying any wine, maaan. I've got that covered, dude. Like, where's your water faucet?"

And this could be the background music...

https://youtu.be/6S4VsI78qG0?t=9

Tin-Man's picture
Alright then. Where was I? Uh

Alright then. Where was I? Uh, let's seeeeee.... Oh, yeah. The two different versions of man/woman being created, and where-in-the-HELL did Cain find a wife once sent away from "the presence of the Lord". Oh, and in case I forgot to mention it, at the very beginning when they arrived, I had requested we talk about the very foundation of the bible being Genesis, and they both agreed that it was. Anyway, and the saga continues...

Me: "Again, just to ensure we are are on the same page, you believe all of humanity was made from just one man and one woman (Adam and Eve), correct?"

(Both agreed wholeheartedly that is their belief.)

Me: "Excellent. So, do you mind if I ask why there are two different versions of how man/woman were created?"

Tom: (stunned look) "Uh, what do you mean? Please show me where that is." (Wow... Did he really just ask me that?)

Me: (opening bible to Genesis Chapter 1. scanning finger down page.) "Ummmm, let's seeeee.... Oh, here it is. See? In the first creation of Man/Woman (Adam and Eve), it says god made them both at the same time. And as a quick side note, to whom was god talking? Because he said, 'Let US make Man in OUR own image.' Anyway, just curious."... (waving hand in dismissal)... "So, uh, then god goes on to give them BOTH 'instructions' about how he made everything for THEM and that THEY are meant to enjoy it all. However in the next chapter, just a few verses away, there is a totally different version."... (pointing them to chapter 2)... "Look, here it says god first made Man (Adam) from the dirt and breathed life into him. Then god went on to tell Adam basically the same instructions as in chapter 1, but with the addition of telling ADAM not to eat from the forbidden Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God then went on to make all the animals and had Adam name them. (Odd, though, because in the first chapter all the animals were made BEFORE Man and Women were created... Hmmm...) Oh, well. Anyway, only after all of that did god determine Adam needed a wife. And it was at that time god put Adam to sleep, stole one of Adam's ribs, and then made woman from that. I was wondering if you could clear that up for me?"

Tom: (look of deer caught in headlights) "Well, uh, if you notice, God did not say he created ADAM in the first chapter. The name Adam does not appear until the second chapter, right? And then the name Eve didn't get mentioned until even later. See?" (I kid you not, he said all of that with a straight and confident face as if he had merely stated 2+2=4. And he was looking at me as if to say, "See how obvious that is?")

Me: (trying hard not to laugh) "Well, the thing is - and this is just my personal opinion, mind you - seems to me it does not matter when the names come into play. Matter of fact, shouldn't even matter what the names were in the first place. Could have been Greg and Marsha. It's kinda irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that it CLEARLY states in the first chapter that man and woman were created AT THE SAME TIME. And then in the second chapter, it CLEARLY tells how man and woman were created very distinctly at two different times AND in different manners. So, if it was not Adam and Eve, who were those first two that god created?"

(By the way, the whole time I was explaining this, John was just sitting there with a thousand-yard-stare on his face and intermittently letting loose with one of his hiccup/yelp tics, while Tom was desperately searching his laptop for some sort of explanation.)

Tom: "Uh, well, if you notice, the second chapter is really just expanding a little more on what was said in the first chapter."

Me: "No, no... there is really no way to deny these are two VERY distinctly different versions of the supposedly same event. And, quite honestly, it does not make sense to me that this is something an all-powerful, all-knowing, PERFECT god would allow to get published in its name. Either there were TWO totally different incidents of Man being created, or somebody wrote an incredibly monumental mistake. Oh, and I am still really curious about the other gods to whom god was talking."

John: (temporally snapping out of his coma) "Jesus. Yeah, Jesus was up there with God."

Me: "Hmmmm... Uh, nope. Not really buying that answer. Jesus did not come along until waaay into the New Testament, and the New Testament didn't get started until many years AFTER Jesus was supposedly sacrificed. Meaning, therefore, whoever wrote the Old Testament scrolls would have known nothing about the Jesus character. And one would think this would be something important to mention at the beginning of his perfect book. Again, though, just my opinion."

In the end, I (AGAIN) got the ol', "Hey, we would really like to research this a little more before we meet again." I'm just dying to know how high up the chain I can get in their hierarchy... *chuckle*...

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ TM

@ TM

I think I want to marry you....

Cognostic's picture
Ask them why they do not use

Ask them why they do not use a "REAL" translation of the bible.

"Because the Jehovah's Witness organization denies the deity of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they have altered the text of God's word to reflect their presuppositions."

"The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive, the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of "...the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say "...and God's active force was moving over the surface of the waters." (Genisis 1:1-2)

"Because the Jehovah's Witnesses deny God in flesh for the Scriptures (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9), they must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Jehovah's Witness version in the New World Translation says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

"This is another obvious alteration in the New World translation. In their attempt to avoid the deity of Christ, they scour the Bible and alter any verses that would suggest that Jesus is divine." ------ "T: "Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality, but the Father who remains in union."

Hebrews 1:6 (NASB),
"Since Jesus, to them, JW, is created, then he cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9." ----- They alter the word "Worchip" and replace it with "obeisance."

https://carm.org/bad-translations-jehovahs-witness-bible-new-world-trans...

Tin-Man's picture
Oh, something else I forgot

Oh, something else I forgot to mention....

At any time during the meeting I was having to search for a certain verse to make a point, I would always scan along the passages with my finger to find it, even if I already knew where it was. And while "scanning" toward the verse, I would be quietly reading it as if to myself. However, when I would get to one of those "strange" spots (that I already KNEW I would encounter), I would pause a moment and then, more loudly, make some sort of remark about it, as if talking to myself.

For instance... When looking for the verse where god is talking to other gods, there are all those verses "building up" to where god kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, right? And in those verses, god is, 1. Searching for Adam who is attempting to hide, and 2. God is then interrogating Adam and asking what they did wrong. Therefore, during my "scan", I would be muttering along and then suddenly stop as if confused. Then I would say a little more loudly to myself something like, "Hmmm... That's odd. Wonder why an omniscient god couldn't find Adam in the garden?", or, "Interesting... Why did god not already know what happened?" I did that without ever looking up. Then I would simply shrug my shoulders and continue "scanning" as if I hadn't said anything. Psychological games are fun... *impish grin*...

Whitefire13's picture
Love it ... and Cog you’re

Love it ... and Cog you’re right, JWs don’t believe in the trinity. This approach is “non confrontational” and not in the field of doctrinal beliefs.
Reading directly from the bible and mumbling weird shit you come across! Fuck! You’re hilarious! Keep it on the bible...kick the fuckin’ lean to stump out from under their feet.

Just a note - other people’s doctrinal beliefs didn’t phase me (they were wrong and mislead) BUT shit strait out of the bible....

Tin-Man's picture
Update:

Update:

Actually got a text from a couple of days ago. Here is how that went. (Actual texts to follow)...

Tom: "Hello. What was your thoughts on Psalm 115:3?"

Me: "Good morning, (Tom). Hope you are doing well. Honestly, my initial thought about that passage by itself is that it is basically saying, "God is allowed to do whatever he wants to do simply because he is God." Personally, I do not abide by that. Just because somebody has the power/ability to do something does not necessarily mean it is okay to do it. To borrow a phrase from Spiderman's uncle, "With great power comes great responsibility."'

Interestingly enough, I have yet to receive a reply from him.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Sounds like Harvey Weinstein.

Sounds like Harvey Weinstein....

David Killens's picture
Might makes right.

Might makes right.

Whitefire13's picture
Looks like they sussed you

Looks like they sussed you out, prayed about it and determined that you don’t have the right heart condition. In other words, you’re not a mindless simpleton that can be turned into a drone.

Edited to add... you won’t have them calling on you for a longggg while :)

Tin-Man's picture
@Whitefire Re: "...you won’t

@Whitefire Re: "...you won’t have them calling on you for a longggg while :)"

Aw, maaaan... *pouting*... So I'm back to being unworthy again? And just when I was starting to feel like maybe there was hope for me aftar all... *whimper*... *tears pooling in eyes*...

Tin-Man's picture
Oh, wow! I can't believe it!

Oh, wow! I can't believe it! I got another text from Tom this morning! Yay! I'm still worthy! Stand by for his text and my reply....

Tin-Man's picture
Tom: "The meaning of Gods

Tom: "The meaning of Gods name "Jehovah" says it all. The meaning of his name, is define as "he causes to become" so he would have the right to choose how to use his power and his foreknowledge. Because of his love which is his predominate quality, his actions is govern by it. When we look at that scripture in Ps 115:3 it puts us in perspective of how Jehovah is and how we as humans are limited compare to Jehovah."

Tin-Man's picture
My response:

My response:

Hey there, (Tom). Great hearing from you again.

In response to your above text, sure, god is suppose to be all-powerful and all-knowing. Therefore, it should be obvious there is nothing or nobody that could ever stop god from doing exactly what he chooses to do. Moreover, there is no way anybody or anything could ever hold god accountable/responsible for his actions. That is not being disputed nor questioned.

As I have already said, though, just because somebody CAN do something, it does not always mean they are right for doing it. And I personally apply that concept to everybody and everything. Even to myself. The god of the bible (and/or any other religion) is not exempt from this, as far as I am concerned.

And, yes, we humans are EXTREMELY limited in our power/knowledge compared to the god in the bible. Yet, to this very day, we have human rulers in charge of millions of people in various countries all across the globe. Many of these rulers are in TOTAL CONTROL over EVERY aspect of the lives of their citizens. And these rulers answer to NOBODY for whatever actions they take against those citizens, no matter how deplorable those actions may be. For all practical purposes, those rulers are the gods of their citizens (minus the omnipotence/omniscience, of course).

With that in mind, those of us who are humane, and have empathy, and care about our fellow Man would naturally be shocked and outraged if one of those rulers slaughtered an entire villiage of servants within his realm just because a couple of those citizens ate a particular food item the ruler had banned, because the ruler deemed that food worthy to be eaten only by the social elite.

But, hey, it's HIS country and HIS people and HIS rules, right? And the people of his country can certainly do nothing to stop him, and even if somebody tried to protest, that person would be instantly killed by one of the ruler's faithful servants. The servant would then get a wonderful reward from the ruler for killing the protester. And let's say that country is fully independent in regards to necessary resources, and no other country can intervene, even if they knew of the travesties being committed. I'm willing to bet you would object to this ruler just as badly as I would. Sure, it is HIS country and he has the power to do whatever he wants with it. But that most certainly does NOT make it right for him to do so.

So, now, the god in the bible has done many FAAAAAR worse things than the example I gave about the ruler. But somehow gets a pass on his horrendous actions? I'm afraid that simply does not compute with me.

Whitefire13's picture
Hmmm...I was waiting for the

Hmmm...I was waiting for the reply text.
Tom must be researching.

Tin-Man's picture
@Whitefire

@Whitefire

Yeah, I figure it will be a couple of days or more before I hear back from him (if at all)... *chuckle*...

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