What if we're all wrong!

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Nyarlathotep's picture
@Jo

@Jo
So after all of that, you have nothing specific to offer? You just want me to take your word on the matter? No thanks.

/e When you start talking about fine tuning and probabilities you got my attention. I was hoping you had something interesting to discuss; not vague, feel good fluff.

Jo's picture
@ Nyarlathotep

@ Nyarlathotep

As you know, I am no super statistician or mathematician. Some famous physics ( sorry, can't find the reference) once calculated the odds of the universe just happening on its own was a trillion zeros to the millionth power. You probably know who I mean and exponentially more about it than I do.

Dawkins said "The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice."
"From tail to tale on the path of pilgrims in life", The Scotsman (2005-04-09)
Sounds like the events are pointing towards something quite extraordinary. One could even say supernatural.

He also said no one has any idea how life happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHg-P6TX1ZU

Not a God of the gaps.
If the most brilliant biologists can't even figure out how it happened, let alone replicate the event, what are the possibilities of that event just being some incalculable happenstance?

Here is an example that even Jo can understand that may go towards what you are asking.
If I said God was going to cause a coin flip to be heads, and it was, would you beleive in God.
I suspect not, and neither would I.

But how many times would it have to come up heads for you to scratch yours and wonder?
A thousand, a billion? The coin is not rigged in anyway. You can pick the coin, it and even do the flipping.

From the big bang all the way to us here discussing God. Isn't that like heads coming up a trillion times?

Nyarlathotep's picture
Jo - Some famous physics (

Jo - Some famous physics ( sorry, can't find the reference) once calculated the odds of the universe just happening on its own was a trillion zeros to the millionth power.

Smells like bullshit. In fact, if I could find a bookmaker that would take the bet; I'd bet heavily that what you said is false, in more than one way. Because that would just be free money.
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Jo - If the most brilliant biologists can't even figure out how it happened, let alone replicate the event, what are the possibilities of that event just being some incalculable happenstance?

I can't explain how my socks go missing; but that don't make me think it's magic.
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Jo - From the big bang all the way to us here discussing God. Isn't that like heads coming up a trillion times?

I doubt it; but I really don't know; but I'm pretty sure you don't know either.

David Killens's picture
@Jo

@Jo

"God is not nature, but he is the author, architect and artist of nature. Just like we could in some way know an author or artist from their work, we can know God from his."

Yadda dabba gabba, scooby doo, what a mishmash of garbage. Sorry, but the explanation for creation (as we know it), abiogenisis and evolution have a much more rational explanation that makes sense than "see the flowers ... god".

Jo's picture
@ David Killens

@ David Killens

Is a painting just paint, is music just sounds?
You don't hear any "music of the spheres"?

Neither the big bang, nor abiogenisis causes you to pause and wonder if it really is all just some unfathomable happenstance?
It causes me to pause and wonder.

David Killens's picture
Like ....... Thor and

Like ....... Thor and lightning?

Sheldon's picture
Jo -

Jo -
The need for a cause...
...fine tuning...
...The improbability of all the extremely unlikely events occurring...
Life and the universe existing by some massively improbable happenstance...

Jo Has it not withstood scrutiny for thousands of years?

No, its based on an appeal to ignorance fallacy, they are a God of the gaps polemic, nothing more.

It's also absurdly stupid to think adding an unevidenced deity, using magic, from a superstitious bronze age creation myth makes the existence of the universe MORE probable.

Your superstion's claims for the origins of the universe has no evidence to support it, directly contradicts known scientific facts, has no explanatory powers whatsoever, and is of course unfalsifiable. Its fanciful nonsense that can't even get the basic chronology of the formation of our solar system right.

So no, that bullshit has never stood up to scrutiny, and the threads on this forum are littered with cogent destructions of it, then each new theists rolls up and presents them again, sometimes the same theist, as if we won't notice the dishonesty.

We know natural events are possible, we don't know supernatural events are even possible, so how can anyone claim the origin of the natural physical universe is more likely to be supernatural than natural?

rat spit's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

I’m 38. From 33 to 36 I lived with chronic lower back pain. I worked a laborious job and was quite surprised by the end of each day that I hadn’t simply given up or offed my self.

And then - I discovered that if you relax tension in the apex of the heart, it stops inflammation of nerves; joints; ligaments; etc. - in the lower back at least.

For what it’s worth, you well endowed theist hater, I wish you and your sore back the best of luck.

Try that little trick out. From “the bottom of my heart”; It could be the difference between a life remainder of excruciating pain and a relative bounty of mobility.

Cognostic's picture
RELAXING TENSION IN THE APEX

RELAXING TENSION IN THE APEX OF YOUR HEART: (DIRECTIONS)
1. Find an ice pick with a wooden handle.
2. Heat the tip of the ice pick over an open flame until it is white hot.
3. Insert the ice pick into the anus and push up until you reach the apex of the heart.
4. By the time you get there it should be completely relaxed and your back-pain a thing of the past.
5. No one has ever been required to treat themselves more than once with this remedy.

Good Luck.

You might also try the Red Blood of Jesus Handkerchief. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx0bHOsBtPc

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: "3. Insert the ice

@Cog Re: "3. Insert the ice pick into the anus and push up until you reach the apex of the heart."

Damn, Cog, that is some of the most stupid shit I have ever heard. And here I was thinking your dumb ass was smarter than that. For everybody's sake, please lay off the fermented bananas, you moron... *rolling eyes*... Look, even ANY basic EMT medic knows you do not insert the ice pick into the anus. Geeeez.... For the males, the ice pick must be inserted into the end of the penis to be pushed up to the heart. And for females it must be inserted into the opening of the urethra. It ain't rocket science, dude. Sadly, this is the kind of shit that happens when non-medical persons try to give medical advice... *shaking head in disbelief*... *muttering to self*... Through the anus... Hmph!... How totally ridiculous....

Cognostic's picture
@TinMan: FUCK! That

@TinMan: FUCK! That explains why I still have back pain. I'm going to try the damn Jesus Handkerchief.

Sheldon's picture
@Cognostic, like my

@Cognostic, like my avaricious spouse has left me an ice pick when she cleared out, while I was working another 11.5 hr shift.

Not to worry, the procedure doesn't seem that far removed from what her vampiric solicitors have planned for me. By they time she, and they are done, the pain is the only thing she won't want half of.

Cognostic's picture
My whole life I have told

My whole life I have told people how everything they know can be stripped away in a second. How relationships, jobs, money, success, etc... are never permanent. It sucks to go through this kind of shit, but it is never the end and once it is done, you just start over again. Hang in there!!! You are obviously more intelligent and more capable than the average person. It's only "change."

Sheldon's picture
Thanks Cog. To be honest she

Thanks Cog. To be honest she's behaved so badly it's actually helped me move on a little faster if that makes sense. The grieving over the failed relationship might have lasted longer if she hadn't treated me and my family with such utter contempt.

The money is a wrench, but as a friend pointed out, think of it as only a number, then move on.

I'm in a much better place now than I was a few weeks ago.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@Sheldon.

@Sheldon.
GIF mate. Having been through that mill, lost houses and security, then bounced back 3 fekking times...it never gets easy, but it does get bearable.
But then, looking back, I was probably a prick at the time.

Cognostic's picture
I'm heading to the

I'm heading to the Philippines July 31, come on along. You need a break. Avoid Manila and fly into Clark. I am shopping for a house, I will be there until the 23ed.
The next step you take is into the unknown.... why not make it an adventure?

Sheldon's picture
That's a very kind offer. I

That's a very kind offer. I am on holiday soon in Spain, with family. Financially I have to wait see how bad it's going to get before I can make any long term plans, but i will keep the house and what I've invested in lieu of a pension, plus some of my savings hopefully, if she doesn't change her current demand. Sadly she pulled out of mediation, and didn't say why, telling me she's letting her solicitors deal with it all. So this is an unhappy development, and I can't help but worry it means a larger demand.

Sadly UK divorce law is decades out of date, and simply regards all assets as equally owned where there are no children involved.

I have to just keep working and hope for the best.

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon: SPAIN! Great

@Sheldon: SPAIN! Great idea. A glass of Sangria, a plate of paella, a red-orange splashed sunset and a waft of classical flamenco guitar on the summer breeze. Raise your glass towards the Philippines and send me a toast, I will do the same towards Spain and we can both wonder what the less fortunate people are doing and count our blessings. (Blessings - not in the religious sense of the word of course. God fucking hates us!!!) Living a good life is the best revenge. Even in the midst of all this shit... don't forget to stop and notice the butterflies. There is still beauty in life and in the world around you. Get lots of rest and take care of yourself first. Only then will you have the energy to deal with the rest of the shit. Take care.

rat spit's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

Have I ever lied to you, Sheldon? Take the advise. At this point it doesn’t sound like you have anything else to lose. My sincerest apologies for that as well, good sir.

rat spit's picture
OMG. Like WTF? I wuz jus

OMG. Like WTF? I wuz jus trying to help.

Actually, the REAL technique is a lot like relaxing your sphincter when you take a shit. (Or was it a piss? I don’t remember)

1) Mentally locate the apex of your heart
2) Relax the apex of your heart
3) Enjoy the benefits of a pain free lower back without the potentially harmful effects of taking opioids for pain.

Don’t want to try it? What can I do? Don’t shoot the messenger!

Sheldon's picture
Thank you. I have medicated

Thank you. I have meditatedfor many years, since I learned how to in Aikido when I was in my twenties and first developed chronic back pain. I have a number of coping techniques, but had relied too heavily on strong prescription pain killer in order to work long hours and save enough to retire or work only part time. As my wife had worked part time since we married, and I paid all the Bill's barring some of the groceries.

She knew this as I had been completely honest about it, and yet she ran up debt behind my back, and started divorce proceeding without telling me, and before she moved out. Her solicitors immediately put a matrimonial care order on the house, the house I bought before we even met.

The last few weeks have been a massive eye opener.

I think it was Bismarck who said only a fool learns from experience, but often in our lives this is precisely what most of us do. Especially when it involves relationships.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ SHeldon

@ SHeldon

Fuck man...thats is almost my story for one of them....except I forgave her.we 'reconciled'..not realising she was a chronic alcoholic who slept with my best customers, defrauded my company and eventually when I was bled dry, chucked me out so she could live with a fucking real estate agent (now that smarts).
Fortunately he robbed her blind and I got stuck with my stepson ( A great kid) as she would not/could not look after him.

So go to Spain my friend, get laid, get drunk lie on the beach and verbally punch any evangelists you meet....it's very cathartic.

LogicFTW's picture
@Sheldon & @OMSC

@Sheldon & @OMSC

Jeez you guys have had trials. While my childhood was kind of rough, ever since reaching adulthood life has only gotten better for me.

I feel like I would not have dealt with these setbacks half as well as you guys have. If my wife left me, especially in circumstances like you guy shave described, I am not sure what I would do, but I feel like I would do some real stupid destructive shit in response. I also would be taken completely by surprise and could not prepare my self for such an event in any way.

rat spit's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

In Buddhism there is a tendency to situate one’s self on a meditation object. Do you have a theme that guides your meditations?

For me, personally, I like to use my penis as my meditation object.

First, I start off by swearing at it and punching it. I say, “YOU’RE WORTHLESS AND PUNY!”

This leads to guilt. So I apologize to my penis and tell it nice things, “at least you’re not covered in warts. At least you don’t have herpes.”

After about 40 mins of deep concentration I achieve a full erection which lasts about three minutes.

It gives me an astounding sense of positive self worth. I learnt the method at a workshop several years ago. It was more of, like, a homeless camp, come to think of it. A lot of naked guys with beards and sleeping bags. Alcohol ... a LOT of alcohol.

I can host a free webinar, if anyone’s interested?

LogicFTW's picture
Okay that got a laugh out of

Okay that got a laugh out of me.

Tin-Man's picture
@Rat Spit Re: "It was more

@Rat Spit Re: "It was more of, like, a homeless camp..."

FYI... You are suppose to use the term "Transient Refuge" now. Homeless camp is way too politically incorrect these days. Wouldn't want to upset the Snowflakes.

Sheldon's picture
Ok guys, and gals, something

Ok guys, and gals, something weird and technical blocked me from logging in the last week. Managed to sort it finally through AR's Facebook page.

I thought was never going to be able to post again, multiple emails just kept getting automated response.

Phew, I'm back, yippeee.....

Now I have to ask, did anyone demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity while I was gone?

In Spirit's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

Darn it Sheldon

Evidence was given and you missed it all....lol

..........................................................................................................................................but it was not objective...bazinga !!

Sheldon's picture
I'm just so glad to be back.

I'm just so glad to be back. In the last two months the big bang theory has ended after 12 years, game of thrones has ended after 12 years, and my marriage has ended after 12 years. Now I was pretty miffed about two of those, and also my marriage is going to cost me big time, but not being able to post here was the worst, well it was pretty bad anyway.

I;mmmmm backkkkkk...yessssss....

David Killens's picture
Welcome back Sheldon, let's

Welcome back Sheldon, let's get another run of twelve years going.

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