First a definition: (from Oxford)
God:
noun
1.
(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
Second, an assumption:
Pace of human innovation, learning and evolution of the human race in most all aspects continue at current accelerating rates for the next 100 years or longer.
Using the above Oxford definition of god, how will we mere humans achieve this? Is there any evidence for this possibility?
So, ruler of the universe, well we probably won't achieve that anytime soon, but I think we can already agree we humans are the ruler of our little planet dominating all other life and even inert non living material to an incredible degree that is only accelerating. We have already obtained the ability to wipe out 99.99 percent of all life on the planet with a push of a button. Sounds an awful lot like a "god" already in terms of power in this little corner of the universe.
Moral authority? Well that is self explanatory, realizing all "current" other god ideas of the major religions are nonsense, it is easy to then take the next step to realize, indeed we humans do create and control all moral authority that we place on ourselves.
Supreme being? Well we are well on our way, especially for the richest among us today. We have defeated most diseases, a careful and wealthy person can almost guarantee they will live into their 80's. And someone born today to a wealthy, educated, careful family could easily see comfortable life spans that exceed 100 years. And 100 years from now at our current accelerating pace of innovation? We might well achieve a form of immortality, shedding our mortal coil, (our bodies) and uploading ourselves to a highly complex computer that keeps our thought patterns, (us,) intact while shedding things such as a finite lifespan, pain, disability, limitations etc.
In the short time span of ~20 years we have gone from relying on libraries to having all of our thoughts and data and so much more, to all this information instantly accessible at any time in our pockets, (smart phone/internet) mostly for free. For much of the world. Even some of the poorest and least educated places in the world has access to smart phones and the accompanying wireless networks to support them. 100 years ago we would of likened what more than 50% of the world today has access to, as power of the gods. What will another 20 years bring?
Speaking of the internet, a poor segue into another likely possibility: we humans create god.
Already the internet has god like knowledge of everything compared to us mere humans. Facebook as an entity knows incredible amount of information on its users. What they like, dislike, their fears, wants etc. etc. Google searches billions of pages every day and makes it all searchable and instantly accessible.
Already computer programs exceed what humans can do, in ever increasingly complex ways. AI can now detect certain forms of cancer better than a career radiologist that spent a decade in school and another few decades staring at medical images. These computers do not get tired, are nearly infinitely networked, backed up, with parts that are easily replaceable and potentially nearly unlimited ability to expand, able to operate a literal light speed, the potential for computer power and intelligence is truly exponential in growth.
Does this "god" have power over human fortune? Absolutely. Do people worship it? Yep. (Small but growing number.) Kind of depends on what your consider to be worship. It can certainly be argued people spend far more time interacting with computers/internet then they do any current god idea. How many young kids/adults do you see utterly glued to their smartphones/screens etc for a majority of their waking hours? What are we doing right now writing and replying on these threads?
So what are we missing in that oxford definition? Well, Creator of the universe, I think the rest are already achieved or close to being achieved at current rates of innovation.
If we take off the requirement of "creator of the universe" we humans + our machines may already fulfilled the definition of god especially if we continue to innovate human/computer interface and use the strengths of both to cover the weaknesses each has separately. Additionally the creator of the universe part of the defintion of god is mostly meaningless because there not a single situation where we could actually verify that to be true for any uses for the word "god" so far.
Final question: If we do achieve a sort of "god hood" that we humans are a part of and/or created will we finally shed the nonsense of 2000+ year old bronze age religious ideas?
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▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
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I don't get it.
But what you got wrong for sure is that a careful rich person can pretty much guarantee that they'll live till they're 80.
That people can become immortal is fantasy and that they can significantly lengthen their lifetime is unlikely, I mean -extremely- unlikely in the far far future. And in such fantasy what would you do about the yet to be born? Remember the over population problem and global warming? The earth in itself isn't gonna last forever.... Now of course if we move our civilization to another planet.....
I think you've just watched too many science fiction movies.
Shocked you don't get it. Try reading, start here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2011425/The-person-reach...
Imagine if this had been reality in Muhammad's (PBUH) day. Instead of a 53 year old raping a nine year old, he could have been beyond Noah's age, say 975 raping a nine year old.
@Leper
I did not provide any data on this claim, but your rebuttal did not eithir. However we should both be well aware, that wealth is probably the single biggest factor on average lifespans, outside of extremes (like smoking a couple of packs of cigarettes daily.) Did you know there are special clinics that cost ~25k a visit, where they do extensive full body scans? We all know an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure in the medical field. These clinics can spot any possible problem with all the latest technology and give you a full personalized report on how to avoid medical problems even before they begin. (Far beyond the basics like: don't smoke 2 packs of cigs a day!)
Uh what? Why do you keep saying I am talking about immortality when I never even come close to mentioning this?
Do you not pay attention at all? Life spans are increasing world wide, by A LOT when measured century over century. Longer lifespans has been the trend for centuries! With a marked increase in the last century or so as modern medicine practices become widely available. Those with more immediate access to the latest (rich people) are going to benefit from these advances sooner then subsistence farmers in the middle of the Sahara.
Extremely unlikely? How about almost inevitable? This has been going on for centuries, and in the last century has only greatly increased. (A lot of this contribution is the huge reduction in deaths of the very young such as during the birthing process.
Fully agree with you there. Fortunately as population, education and prosperity (as well as access to birth control) the amount of babies being born per capable mother goes down, almost without fail in just about every culture for the last several centuries. Yes, over population is a HUGE HUGE problem as it stands right now, but people living longer is a drop in the bucket compared to falling child per fertile mother rates. A lot of human population predictions has us leveling off in population growth in the next few decades.
Now there is something that is probably many decades if not centuries from happening in any sort of large scale based on current technology advancement rates, especially in the area of space travel. (A tiny science colony on mars does not count as major civilization movement to other planets!)
I think it is impossible to watch too many science fiction movies. While I may be inspired by some of them, I certainly do not draw any conclusions from sci fi movies on possible future outcomes. All one needs to do is watch a few 30+ year old sci fi movies to realize they get a lot more wrong then right, but they were never meant to be highly accurate future predictions, I know that.
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▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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@Leper: But what you got wrong for sure is that a careful rich person can pretty much guarantee that they'll live till they're 80.
No. He got that right. Nearly 30 countries have an average life expectancy over 80. Japan is the longest-lived country in the world and has almost 70,000 centenarians. They also have a population problem. Their population is shrinking.
Those of us aged 30 and over now are probably the last generations that will have to die. If I were you, I'd be selling my shares in God, Inc.
Aaaaaand, as expected, it is apparent that Leper has never bothered to read a science book. Who woulda thunk-it?
Apart from the 'Readers Digests guide to scientific miracles'.
Quality read, it's up there with Kent Hovind's 'Guide to the Jurrasic in the year 1000BC'
And who can forget the timeless,
Ken Ham's 'How to build an Ark'
@Tin-Man
I definitely am noticing a trend here from Leper. Actually it is really hard to miss.
Humans made up all the gods they worship. Technology will evolve beyond gods.
Humanity is heading down the road to being cyborgs, the merging of human and machine. Humans don't need any of the gods they worship.
edit
@xenoview
Yeah, at current pace of innovation, the old god concepts will be increasingly pushed out everywhere the new technology is being made available. It is already occurring. My favorite example is the internet/smartphone.
In societies with access to it, what do we see from a more outside perspective? Pretty much everyone under the age of 30 using their smartphone, even in small gaps of 1-2 minutes if they are not busy doing something else. Cell phones that wirelessly give them unlimited visual/audio stimuli (even a little bit of tactile even!) The smartphone is by the typical user's side almost perfectly 24/7 Religions organizations can only dream of having such incredible presence in people's lives and being such a portal to new social output. And increasingly these devices are utterly replacing religion wholesale.
For every person sitting in sermon on holy day, or learning about their religion stuff, I would guess at least 100 are currently interfacing with their phones. Sure plenty of sermonizing happens on the internet too, but what do you really expect to find on any given moment of a person's smartphone usage? I highly doubt it is going to be even 10% religious even among the more religiously devout. I predict eithir humans won't need gods, or they will simply replace "gods" with internet/ai/technology etc.
Let's hope google (and others like it) is not an evil company and can be trusted with their enormous (god like?) power over us mere humans.
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(additional musings, feel free to skip, I just wrote it and realized I was getting way off topic.)
We can barely call these devices phones anymore. More portable personal computers with high speed access to the internet. I would say my phone using a normal voice call, (not video) over an actual phone oriented service comprises less than 20% of the communication use of my phone. It is outdated tech for the most part. Especially when one considers one can with an internet connection call/video/exchange information for nearly free to anyone in the world with access to internet (or even if they only have access to voice calls) I travel a lot, I used to have to buy local sim cards, or even entire phones if I traveled out of country on business. Now a days, wifi is generally available to the point I do not even need to do that anymore. (Plus for my work I need greater control over the security of my communications then a simple voice cellular service can reliably provide.)
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▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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@Logic
I wonder when an AI will start taking the place of priest? Giving sermons on the internet.
That is a pretty funny straw-man, coming from someone who presumably believes they will be in paradise (in heaven), forever.
A matter of context, perhaps.
Ancient Egyptians considered pharaoh a god. The Romans went even further, by declaring certain people, such as the emperor ,to be a god .
In modern times there are the cargo cults of New Guinea; and elsewhere. Because of all the wonderful things they had ,locals thought the white men ,and their planes, were gods:
"A cargo cult is a belief system among members of a relatively undeveloped society in which adherents practice superstitious rituals hoping to bring modern goods supplied by a more technologically advanced society. These cults, millenarian in nature, were first described in Melanesia in the wake of contact with advanced Western cultures. The name derives from the belief which began among Melanesians in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that various ritualistic acts such as the building of an airplane runway will result in the appearance of material wealth, particularly highly desirable Western goods (i.e., "cargo"), via Western airplanes.[1][2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
For many current religions men are already immortal, because they possess an immortal soul.
Could we become immortal by purely scientific means? Theoretically, probably; our body reproduces every cell within what, every seven years? Problem is, the reproductions are increasingly flawed. IE We age . Our bodies have a built-in obsolescence. If that were not so, we would need to have a very different programme of reproduction., or we would breed ourselves to extinction within perhaps a few centuries. Looking at the exponential growth of world populations, that may well be inevitable in any case.
I guess it might be theoretically possible that scientists could find a way to change DNA sequence so that we did not age further than say age 25. Not convinced that's at all a good idea.
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@ Leper
"Leper - That people can become immortal is fantasy..."
Such a statement is a basic logical fallacy, called 'argument from ignorance' . IE " "I lack the knowledge, wit or imagination to understand, therefore it's fantasy/stupid/wrong "
If you insist on playing with the adults, perhaps have a bit of a read about logical fallacies. This is a genuine attempt to help you seem a bit less ignorant than is currently the case in your posts .
"In reasoning to argue a claim, a fallacy is reasoning that is evaluated as logically incorrect and that undermines the logical validity of the argument and permits its recognition as unsound. Regardless of their soundness, all registers and manners of speech can demonstrate fallacies. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies