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Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@ Jo
Once again your defence of your behaviour leads you into a morass:
Jo: Donald who you do not know and have never met is a very arrogant person. I have not met him but believe he is.
A: Oh, Ok, I do not know Donald but I do not necessarily believe you, after all you have lied to me before. Let's see some evidence.
Jo: Here are a multitude of video clips of my Donald lying and being arrogant;
A: Ok....I am beginning to accept your assessment. If that is indeed the Donald you referred to originally.
Jo: Oh, look here is my Donald now! You can see for yourself that I am not lying or deluded
*Donald, shakes hands, produces ID and proceeds to lie gratuitously and behaves very arrogantly towards me. He departs.*
A: Well, Jo, this time you were right. That particular Donald did lie and was very arrogant. However I shall still not trust you, Jo, as you have lied so frequently in the past about your experiences. You will have to evidence your claims each and every time. I lack confidence or belief in anything you say unless I can experience it myself.
Now you cannot be that dumb to continue with your pathetic 'gotcha' attempts at reversing the burden of proof? Or are you really as dumb as you are dishonest?
Sorry TM, I know you were about to squish this mosquito but I could not resist. The wriggling and whining was becoming unbearable.
@Old Man Re: "Sorry TM, I know you were about to squish this mosquito but I could not resist. The wriggling and whining was becoming unbearable."
...*leaning unsteadily against door frame*.... *still light shade of green*... Oh, no worries... Umph!... *dry heave*... I'm still just trying to find the Pepto Bismol... *dry heave*... *groan*.... Anybody mind going to the store and picking up a pack for me? I'm still too dizzy to even walk... much less drive... *stumbling over to couch*.... *falling face first into the cushions*.... *grooooooan*.....
@Jo
So your belief that there is no rainbow farting unicorns, is based on faith.
And faith is basically to believe something without actual testable/provable evidence.
So you admit you disbelieve rainbow farting unicorns, without evidence, and you believe your god idea, also without evidence.
Hey! Making progress! At least, going by what you say, you know your god idea is not evidenced. You just believe in it anyways because... faith?
Do you like being ordered around by other humans because you have "faith" that what they say is right? Seems a bit like slavery, to a mere idea to me that has zero evidence, just words/writings from other people on this planet, most of these people who wrote/said things have have long turned to dust.
@ Logic FTW
What is your "testable/provable evidence"?
The last time I was ordered around by anyone was when I was in the military.
@Jo
Wait, now you are demanding I prove that there is no god, even though you fully admit you cannot prove you god, or disprove rainbow farting unicorns, or santa claus or F.S.M?
Only your particular "faith" is correct? Everyone else's is wrong? Because....well you are right on everything? I should just take it on "faith" that you are right?
Do you have any idea how insane you sound right now?
Unless you left the military in less then a year, and became your own boss, are rich, etc. You are in serious denial. Trust me you been ordered around plenty, sometimes simply because of your faith. Just, apparently, you have no idea that you been ordered around. Ever get pulled over by a cop? Ever collect a paycheck?
So you believe they don't exist, and this must be a faith based belief you hold. Unless you can prove they don't exist of course, can you?
I'm sure my irony meter isn't the only one heading for the skip here Jo, after you've contradicted months of your claims based on argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, and refused to accept the dictionary definition of atheism, you now show yet again and unequivocally the biased double standard in your hypocritical religious apologetics.
Dear oh dear, irony overload....
I do not deny that God exists.
------------------
I have no faith in God's non existence.
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I'm extremely skeptical.
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I'm saying I don't believe them.
------------------
It seems the idea of God (as it is often presented) does not make any testable predictions; and isn't amenable to logical proofs. Making it difficult to even imagine how such an entity could be evidenced.
Great response Nyarlathotep. And I would like to add this personal statement.
"Jo - You have no ideas on how God could be evidenced?"
It is not my problem. I do not have to figure out how to evidence your god. It is your claim, you have to figure out how to evidence your god.
@ Nyarlathotep
Do I have it right?
You have no faith in Gods existence or non-existence.
You have no conclusions about the matter, just skepticism.
You don't believe those who do or do not believe in God.
Isn't skepticism an opinion, conclusion, or a philosophical statement?
Are you as skeptical about Atheism as you are other "isms"?
Since it is "difficult to even imagine how such an entity could be evidenced."
How would you know evidence for God if it was presented, or was readily available?
Do you have any evidence that Atheism is the best way to answer the question?
If you have no conclusion about his existence or non-existence, if you don't know what evidence would look like?
What do you have? How do you know you are right or someone else is wrong?
Is skepticism as to the existence and non-existence of God logical?
How can you be skeptical to both? Where does that leave you?
I agree that skepticism is a great starting place.
But to have it as an ending, seems to me like you never got anywhere.
I assume because of you involvement on AR that you care about the answer to the question.
But I don't see that you ever answered the question. Maybe just made a good start.
All you have is a lack of faith and skepticism. Seems very hollow to me.
A non-answer. Not even half an answer.
Usually when I ask these types of questions I get two responses.
1. I don't understand the definition of Atheism.
I do, but I am addressing your statements, not the definition.
2. Atheists will tell me of their journey from Christianity to Atheism (for example).
They will tell me of all the thought and research they have put into the subject.
They make statements like the Bible is fiction. Christians are delusional.
They will give me all the reasoning as to why they are an Atheist.
I know the definition of Atheism.
I recognize and acknowledge all the thought and research that many on AR have obviously put into the subject.
You said something very brilliant once that I think is applicable
"I've never met anyone who doesn't. I've met a few that paid lip-service against freewill. But when off guard they quickly return to speaking in such a way as to endorse freewill: lamenting choices, considering options, etc."
I have had a similar experience with most Atheists.
Lack of faith and skepticism is the lip service.
But when off guard or explaining themselves.
They quickly return to speaking in a way that makes it obvious that they are a sure there is no God, as I am sure there is.
"Bible is fiction, no evidence for God, God is evil, Christians are delusional, and all the evidence points away from God."
I think we should all say what we think is the answer to the question and why we have concluded that (can't say belief).
Instead of trying to frame the language or the question, to make our answer the only viable one.
The sceptic in me suspects this is not an accident. If you're going to make up an imaginary deity for the masses, better make sure it is unfalsifiable.
Whenever their claims are properly tested, the resulting foot shuffling and navel gazing is embarrassing for all concerned.
If you perfectly understand the definition of atheism then the rest of your post must be a deliberately dishonest lie.
1. Another lie to try and misrepresent atheism as the affirmation of a claim.
2. No, because the gazillionth time atheism is not a belief, and for me to reach conclusions about something it would need to be accurately defined and properly evidenced, you can do neither.
3. No, as an atheist I am saying that I don't believe any deity or deities exist, because there is no objective evidence to support the belief.
4. Just the one, that I don't believe any deity or deities exist, and again until someone accurately defines and evidences a deity there are no objective answers, just hypothetical assumptions.
5. No, because again beyond broad unevidenced assumptions no one can accurately define their deity or evidence it. Do you spend much time pondering how invisible unicorns could be evidenced? What exactly does evidence for a non existent thing look like Jo?
You've been dishonestly flogging this dead horse for months now Jo, you are simply wrong, and the reasons have been explained to you exhaustively. Atheism is not a belief, it's not a claim, and it does not require faith or assumption.
"Making it difficult to even imagine how such an entity could be evidenced."
As an atheist, you need to imagine nothing,. You have no burden of proof. Not your problem to argue about what evidence you would accept.
Not sure how long ago, but I think Cognostic made the point that god would have no problem in providing evidence you could accept.
Atheism is not an answer, it is an attribute that many of us here have in common.
------------------------------------
It is abundandly clear---from just your statements in this post---that you do not. It isn't that complicated. How you could spend as much time as you have here, and yet not been able to get it is disturbing. I'd guess this goes a long way towards explaining the accusations of dishonesty you've received here; as many users give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming there is no way you are as dumb as you pretend to be; and instead assume you must be lying.
@ Nyarlathotep
"Jo - Do you have any evidence that Atheism is the best way to answer the question...Atheism is not an answer, it is an attribute that many of us here have in common."
Can I conclude that you do not have any evidence?
If Atheism is not not an answer, than what is?
There is other possibility besides me being dumb or lying.
Do you dare to consider what they could be?
When the person making the argument, is consistently attacked.
Instead of the argument itself being attacked.
What can that indicate?
What does that mean?
Sure, perhaps there is a magical man who lives in the sky who is altering your posts after you make them to change them into lies. But I'm assuming it is you who are responsible for them.
----------------------------------
That is what happens when you get caught lying; it damages your credibility. Most of us seemed to figure this out when we were very young; I guess it takes longer for others.
What evidence do you have for the non existence of invisible garden fairies Jo? You piss and whine about being criticised each time you post, then dishonestly rehash the same common logical fallacy everyfuckingtime, you're thoroughly dishonest Jo.
What's the answer to does Jo believe invisible unicorns don't exist Jo? Is it yes or no? What objective evidence can you demonstrate that they dont exist Jo?
Come on Jo ffs, you're rehashing the same lying fallacy ad nauseam now, its beyond dishonest and tedious, grow up.
You've lied again in that post, twice, and theres no way you don't know that's it a known common logical fallacy you've used yet again called argumentum ad ignorantiam, so it's a slam dunk that you're lying Jo.
Another lie Jo, as your argument has been exposed as a dishonest lie repeatedly and you have simply ignored this. If you rehash the same lie in every fucking post then it's not an ad hominem fallacy to point out that you're being dishonest. You have only yourself to blame. I'm at a loss as to what you ever hoped to gain by such a relentlessly mendacious display.
Do you think we'll stop pointing out the fallacy or your tedious duplicity in ignoring it?
Come off it Jo, this is a thoroughly puerile display from you.
@All Re: Jo
Ya know, I may have said this before, but it's worth repeating even if I did...
At this point, I would actually be relieved to discover Jo is actually just a troll who is here spouting all his nonsense only for the sake of shits and giggles. (Hell, in an odd sort of way, I could even admire his tenacity a tad bit.) However, if Jo TRULY and SINCERELY believes he is making ANY rational sense with the material he is posting.... Well.... Then I honestly have to say it is a most disturbing thought to know there are people with that mentality out there among us... *shudder*...
@ Tin Man
Yep remember when he got all snitty and butt hurt when I pointed out his defence of his god's genocide, rape, murder and war crimes was EXACTLY the same as the concentration camp guards used to excuse their bosses' (and their own) behaviour at the Nuremberg trials....???
Wow, indeed.
The worst of it is his faux outrage when I started to call him on the duplicity of his repeating the same claim when he could not have failed to understand it is fallacious. Or that even after this he continued to claim he thought his beliefs were logical.
He's a bare faced liar, there simply is no other conclusion. Nor has there been for some time.
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