Atheism is a faith like anyone else

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LogicFTW's picture
@Thread

@Thread

However, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to have the males cut off that unsightly little piece of foreskin from their penis... ...Oh, sure, it may hurt for a bit. But which is worse... A little bit of pain now, or a whooooole shit-load of eternal torture later?

It has been found through data collection and study that these procedure actually substantially and statistically relevantly increase the chance of SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) The amount of blood loss possible on this procedure so quickly after birth can actually be really dangerous.

Back to that whole: "if its in a woman's body, fetuses right over the woman's rights to her own body!" but as soon as it is out of the body, hey lets mutilate a freshly born baby against its will that might even kill the baby, but at the very least traumatize it!!!

Religious nuts... the best, bar none at being hypocritical, (it only works because they are not even aware of it, or they purposely ignore it!)

 
 

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I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
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Sheldon's picture
Ferguson 1951 "According to

Ferguson 1951 "According to you: it took people who never existed to invent a long demented story (the Bible) the gist of which is that you have to practice fraternal charity (love) and to love your neighbor. Of course, with minds like yours this would never had happened.
And you call that logic!!! (hahaha)"

Not one single claim in that post is true. I don't think you've read the bible either, or at least if you have you've not understood it at all.

ferguson1951's picture
That is the Old Testament,

That is the Old Testament, adequate to a world that had to evolve from beasts to civilized people.
In any case, it still was better than what atheists did much later, when the world was supposed to have achieved a good degree of civilization: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceausescu (hahaha)

Cognostic's picture
@ferguson1951:

@ferguson1951:
Please cite anything in atheist faith, religion or dogma that can lead to Hitler's version of Christianity whose first order of busness was to close down the Atheist Center and them emboss "Us With God" on the belt buckles of his elite soldiers. Stalin's

Please demonstrate through atheist dogma how one would get to Stalin's version of Communism.

Do the same for Pol Potm Tito, Ceausescu. Atheism is not a political ideology. Your ignorance is showing. Atheism is a position taken towards belief in god or gods. Atheists do not believe in gods. This says nothing what so ever about their political ideology. Christianity on the other hand can be directly linked to Theocratic ideology and the death and butchery that ensued according to and justified by Scripture. Demonstrate how atheist dogma *which there is none" leads to communism, Stalinism, Marxism, Capitalism, or any other Economic system.

Sheldon's picture
Do you think the fact they

Do you think the fact they were dictators in totalitarian regimes might have had more to do with human rights abuses? Especially as neither Hitler nor Tito were atheists, they were both Catholics. You're all around level of ignorance is astonishing. Also none of them were touted as perfectly merciful deities with limitless power and knowledge, so how is it even remotely comparable to the barbarically sadistic behaviour of the deity portrayed in the bible, and the christian claim it is supposedly perfectly merciful?

LogicFTW's picture
*YAWN*

@ferguson1951
*YAWN*

Yeah we seen this argument before dozens of times, all you are showing here ferguson1951 is your ignorance.

I really hope 1951 does not indicate your birth year. If it is, you have zero excuse to argue this point and not even be aware of what you say is hilariously (or is it tragically?) wrong.

A 13 year old freshman in HS that paid attention in basic world history class would know you are wrong. OR heck even that 10 year old that bothered to actually spend 5 minutes googling this stuff...

Also even if you picked out a list of true atheist (that did not just force people just worship them as god.) Is that really your argument?? That some supposed atheist, (most on your list are not!) killed a lot of people like your god has, so really we are on even moral history? Yikes! You set the bar so low for your own god anyone could murder 10 innocent little kids while stepping over this low bar and still clear it easily.

 
 

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Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
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ferguson1951's picture
It would be no use: you are

It would be no use: you are biased. Your mind is only full of hatred towards religion and you only see the bad things and not the good ones. Plus, I refuse to demonstare anything because that would be adhering to your rational paradigma. I just quote the facts. Stalin must have murdered 25 million people. He was inspired by Marxism. That is proof enough for me. Mao also killed or had others kill tens of millions. He was inspired by Maoism and, like Stalin, hatred towards all religions, so much so that China became completely atheist.

Sheldon's picture
Ferguson 1951 "It would be

Ferguson 1951 "It would be no use: you are biased. Your mind is only full of hatred towards religion and you only see the bad things and not the good ones. Plus, I refuse to demonstare anything because that would be adhering to your rational paradigma. I just quote the facts. Stalin must have murdered 25 million people. He was inspired by Marxism. That is proof enough for me. Mao also killed or had others kill tens of millions. He was inspired by Maoism and, like Stalin, hatred towards all religions, so much so that China became completely atheist."

Who is this meant to be addressed to? Biased how exactly? You refuse to demonstrate objective evidence because you know you cannot, please don't use such a facile lie, and what the hell does paradigma (sic) mean, that's not an English word is it? All dictators that have absolute power end up murdering people, totalitarianism is the problem, and this is true whether the ideology they adhere to is religious or atheistic. However as usual you have entirely missed the point, the bible and koran condone prejudice, bigotry, violence, murder, mysoginy, rapine and slavery. Atheism doesn't have dogma or doctrine, so those atheists were making a personal choice that had nothing at all to do with atheism.

Stalin didn't hate religion either, he was trained at a seminary you clown, he spent a fortune secretly building up the Russian orthodox christian church during the second world war, as he recognises the power it had to manipulate the populace and motivate them to fight. Again you're all around ignorance is truly astonishing. China was never completely atheist either, I doubt that any country on earth ever has been, though just how you'd attempt to evidence such a claim is beyond me. Besides China has one of the strongest economies on the planet, and largest populations, what does that say about an ideology based on atheism. They are one the five permanent members of the UN security council, so are Russia, and France and the UK, and both France and the UK are now predominantly atheist societies as well.

In internationally set criteria using multiple factors determining quality of life, the best places to live with the happiest and most content population, lowest crime rates etc., are generally atheistic countries, like Norway, and Sweden for example. Dear of dear but you spout erroneous bullshit.

Sapporo's picture
Stalin wasn't an atheist
ferguson1951's picture
You still do not understand.

You still do not understand.
Life is often irrational. The Arts (music, literature, painting, etc.) are often irrational.
You poor people insist on wanting to cut yourselves out from a big chunk of life.
LIFE.
I could not care less about logic and rationalism when that is no use to me to carry on in life.
Humor is irrational, but of course, you have no sense of humor.
I was lucky that at an early age I came accross the book "Lateral thinking" by Edward de Bono.
Really, I have had enough of you.
You are stubborn about logic but you do not explain how that helps you in your life.
You do not talk about life, just theories.
Like Keynes used to say humorosly: All this theoretical talk is OK, but in the end we are all dead. (hahaha)
Your contribution is useless.
Useless. Bavaria in Germany is the best German area and they are mostly Catholic.
China is mainly an atheist society but you can keep it.
Finland, they say but I do not care about polls, is the happiest land on earth and 70 % Finns are Christian. I would not be happy in countries were winters show -30°C.
I am a radical Christian and believe Christian religion is the best thing on earth.
I was not alive when Inquisition, Crusades, Protestant persecutions, religious wars were on.
I was living at the time of pedophile priests but I cannot be held accountable for that just as a correct accountant cannot be held accountable just because other accountants do not pay taxes.
I live a modest life.
I fodder economically the homeless in my area: I know nearly all of them by name and I talk to them - I want to know their stories. Sometimes they cheat me but I do not mind.
I take the old ladies in bad health to the supermarket when they have trouble going alone.
I do service everywhere I can, disregarding religion, race, political opinions and the like.
I practice virtues to the best of my ability.
I do not drink spirits, never done drugs and never had trouble with the law.
I offer coffee to anyone at the café from time to time.
I am considered a gentlement, very polite, correct, helpful, funny.
I give away stuff that I own without wanting money in return.
I never did anything for money and I always had what I needed. I am not rich nor do I want to be. I like the simple life.
I looked after my sick mother during 12 years: I suffered, because she had senile dementia, but I managed to get her to die at 101 of natural death.
In the end, I say to myself what the Gospel says: after you have done all that, you will say you are a useless servant.
I just did what had to be done.
I rarely use swearwords, because it is a sign of ignorance.
I only got 113 in a quick MENSA test, but that is enough for what I have to do. Furthermore, not even experts, with all their degrees, agree on what intelligence is. Now they say there are various types of intelligence.
I stand my ground with people because I am not a pansy, but hate quarrelling. Let everyone believe what they want to believe, as long as I can carry on with my life.
The future will tell who was right and who was wrong: not hopeless arguments such as these.

Sheldon's picture
You're simply ignoring

You're simply ignoring everything anyone else posts, you've long since given up all pretence of debate now, and are simply preaching at us. I have to say I find that objectionable. Go find a pulpit if you want to preach.

ferguson1951's picture
Paradigm (definition):a

Paradigm (definition):a framework containing the basic assumptions, ways of thinking, and methodology that are commonly accepted by members of a scientific community.

Tin-Man's picture
@Ferguson Re: On 06/30/19

@Ferguson Re: On 06/30/19 you stated, "Hi folks! Today is my last message."

...*feigned look of astonishment*... You LIED! Oh dear, oh dear... And you seemed like such a trustworthy Christian soul. Alas! My faith in humanity is slowly slipping away. I feel faint... *back of hand to forehead*... *tilting head back dramatically*...

Sheldon's picture
@ Ferguson 1951

@ Ferguson 1951

Then you should have typed paradigm if that's what you meant, not paradigma (sic). Though its telling that rather than admit to an error you dishonestly pretend the error is someone else's ignorance.

Calilasseia's picture
Oh he's pulled the"all these

Oh he's pulled the"all these evil dictators were atheists" canard out of the bag. Yawn.

Item one. Stalin was educated in an Orthodox seminary. Pol Pot was raised as a Theravada Buddhist, and spent a significant part of his education in a Catholic high school. Mao was raised in a Buddhist family, and was given a Confucian education. Hitler was almost certainly Catholic, given both his signing a Concordat with the Vatican, and littering Mein Kampf fulsome praise for the Catholic church. Only Ceaucescu had a revolutionary upbringing, but exhibited some disturbing tendencies in his youth that would surely have manifested themselves regardless of his upbringing.

Item two. These people did not conduct their atrocities in the name of"atheism", but in pursuit of well-defined political ideologies and the consolidation of personal power. As you would have learned if you had paid attention in basic history classes.

Item three. As bad as these people were, one atrocity none of them committed was child rape, unlike a good few Catholic priests we've learned about of late, and an increasing number of megachurch "pastors" who have been in the news recently for playing "hide the sausage" with underage girls.

Item four. The body counts these people generated, were in significant part due to the historical accident of being alive at the same time as modern weapons. If you think that, for example, the Crusaders, or Tomas de Torquemada and his fellow Inquisitors, would not have racked up body counts at least two magnitudes greater if they had been given access to modern weapons, then you are seriously deluded. If the Crusaders had been given access to nuclear weapons, they would gleefully have turned large parts of the Middle East into radioactive lava. Likewise, Torquemada would have been beside himself with joy, at the prospect of setting up modern concentration camps into which to throw the heretics. He'd have been gassing Spanish Jews at a furious rate of knots if he had laid hands on Zyklon B.

So before posting tired and previously destroyed canards, bear in mind you're dealing here with people who paid attention in class.

ferguson1951's picture
So before posting tired and

So before posting tired and previously destroyed canards, bear in mind you're dealing here with people who paid attention in class.

And gobbled everything that was said to them.

If Mao, Hitler and Stalin all received religious education I can imagine what would have happened if they had not, hahaha

Sheldon's picture
Are you going to address your

Are you going to address your lie Ferguson, that Hitler and Tito were atheists, when in fact they were both baptised lifelong Catholics?

Your dishonesty is not appreciated.

ferguson1951's picture
Likewise, the fact that

Likewise, the fact that Christians committed crimes, which is true, does not impinge on Christian values: Thou shalt not kill (hahaha)

Cognostic's picture
@ferguson1951: What

@ferguson1951: What Christian Values? What in the hell are you talking about? Kill homosexuals? Kill witches. Any town that does not listen to you will be destroyed? Eternal damnation for finite crimes? If someone does something you don't agree with, act like an idiot, whip them with a cord, destroy their livelihood, and don't forget to curse them out. Christian Values? WTF are you talking about. Jesus, if he ever existed, was the God of "Do as I say and not as I do."

Tin-Man's picture
@Ferguson

@Ferguson

Hey, Fergie! What about "Thou shalt not lie"? Two days ago you said you were leaving. Yet.... here you still are... *confused look*... I mean, we had like a party and everything to celebrate. Damn...

Alllllthoooough.... *tapping lips with index finger*... Hmmmm... Ya know, the more I think about it, maybe having you around is actually rather beneficial for us godless heathens here. (Despite how annoying you are.) After all, it is theists such as yourself who make our job soooo much easier, because your own behavior clearly demonstrates the adverse effects of religion faaaaar better than any of us atheists could ever explain. And if I were to ever need affirmation for my lack of belief in your god, I have the peace of mind in knowing all I have to do is log in and read a few of your posts to help confirm I am on the right track.

Even better, though, is that we have untold numbers of members who read the threads but never post. Stands to reason that some of those members are "on the fence" in regards to their respective faiths and they are searching for answers/advice to help them make a final decision. After they read a few of your posts, I am guessing there have been many of those undecided members who have hopped off that fence and landed on the atheist side. So, in a way, I suppose we should be thanking you, Fergie. It is almost as if you are a secret atheist ally.... *whispering*... (But don't worry. I won't tell anybody...*wink*...)

Sheldon's picture
What a moronic thing to say,

What a moronic thing to say, when it was you who implied evil dictators behaved as they did because they were atheists. Two of whom were in fact Christian Catholics, Hitler and Tito.

If Christian values prohibit killing why were the Nazi death camps run exclusively by Christian's? You had to be a Christian to get into the SS. Even its leader Himmler was not an atheist, bit a pagan.

You are so dishonest and I'll informed it's clearly not worth bothering with you.

David Killens's picture
I am persuaded that this is a

I am persuaded that this is a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches, who have imbrued their hands in so much innocent blood and that it will tend to prevent the effusion of blood for the future, which are satisfactory grounds for such actions, which otherwise cannot but work remorse and regret.

Oliver Cromwell after the Siege of Drogheda. After capturing the town, Cromwell's soldiers slaughtered 3.500 people.

Calilasseia's picture
Hmm, amazing isn't it, how

Hmm, amazing isn't it, how many enthusiasts for this mythology delight in flushing the Ninth Commandment down the toilet, whenever doing so becomes apologetically and adminstratively convenient?

ferguson1951's picture
Apologetically and

Apologetically and administratively maybe, but not spiritually. After all, as someone said, a rotten apple can turn all the other apples rotten, but a sound apple will never turn the rotten apples sound (hahaha).
In any case, I am still waiting for you to show me one atheist who can claim to have behaved like Jesus and the saints.

Tin-Man's picture
@Fergie Re: "I am still

@Fergie Re: "I am still waiting for you to show me one atheist who can claim to have behaved like Jesus and the saints."

Well, don't hold your breath, big boy. Because, honestly, I personally don't know any self-respecting atheist who would ever want to make that claim in the first place. And I will be the FIRST to admit that I am definitely no saint. (Although, if memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall that a few of those "saints" were actually rather horrendous people before obtaining their "sainthood".) Anyway, as for your Jesus character, WHY would I (or anyone) ever want to be like him???... *shaking head in puzzlement*... So, uh, good luck in ever finding an atheist who would ever profess to being a saintly Jesus type character.

Sapporo's picture
ferguson1951: In any case, I

ferguson1951: In any case, I am still waiting for you to show me one atheist who can claim to have behaved like Jesus and the saints.

An atheist is better behaved than the biblical Jesus simply by refraining from torturing people for eternity.

David Killens's picture
@ferguson1951

@ferguson1951

"I am still waiting for you to show me one atheist who can claim to have behaved like Jesus and the saints."

Do you have a prostitute on call? Jesus did. And the last time I saw twelve guys hanging together was at the pride parade.

ferguson1951's picture
The logical song (Supertramp)

The logical song (Supertramp)

When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful,
A miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical
And all the birds in the trees, well they'd be singing so happily,
Oh joyfully, playfully watching me
But then they send me away to teach me how to be sensible,
Logical, oh responsible, practical
And they showed me a world where I could be so dependable,
Oh clinical, oh intellectual, cynical
There are times when all the world's asleep,
The questions run too deep
For such a simple man
Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned
I know it sounds absurd
Please tell me who I am
I said, watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical,
Liberal, oh fanatical, criminal
Won't you sign up your name, we'd like to feel you're Acceptable
Respectable, oh presentable, a vegetable!
Oh, take it take it yeah
But at night, when all the world's asleep,
The questions run so deep
For such a simple man
Won't you please tell me what we've learned
I know it sounds absurd
Please tell me who I am, who I am, who I am, who I am
'Cause I was feeling so logical
D-d-digital
One, two, three, five
Oh, oh, oh, oh
It's getting unbelievable

Tin-Man's picture
@Ferguson Re: The Logical

@Ferguson Re: The Logical Song

Well, at least you have good taste in music. Supertramp is an awesome group. And I have loved that song since I was a little kid.

ferguson1951's picture
It is not our prerogative to

It is not our prerogative to decide whether God exists or does not exist.
That is intellectual arrogance.
God exists or does not exist irrespective of our opinion.

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