Bible contradiction help need and why I shouldn’t believe?

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algebe's picture
@Lion IRC: you need to deal

@Lion IRC: you need to deal with exegesis.

You'd expect a supreme being to have the power of clear and unambiguous communication in any language. But even when god speaks as plainly as Brian--"Fuck off and leave me alone", you still have power-hungry priests asking "How shall we fuck off, oh lord?".

Biblical exegesis is simply the key to power and profit for priests.

Just as laws written by men require lawyers to interpret them, god's supposed words need priests to figure out what they mean and tell the rest of us mere mortals how to live and who to give our money to. So we get societies run by lawyers and priests. That's unhealthy though not surprising really, since laws are written by lawyers, and god's word is made up by so-called holy men.

boomer47's picture



Surely you mean slyph-like?.

Every woman with whom I have been involved or dreamed of being involved was what used to be called 'petite' . Tallest was 5'4 and slim. (I'm 5'10") My wife, Thunder Thighs, was 5 feet and half an inch.

ONE exception, the last was; 5'6" and what the US fashion industry now hilariously calls a size zero. In fact she was androgynous shaped . No noticeable boobs, waist, or bum. --and the most everything of any woman I've known that well.

When I got out of the army in 1970, I weighed 126 lbs. Before I began my current attempt at a proper diabetes lifestyle diet, I was 202 lbs. Currently 182. Goal weight is 165

Be thankful you are a slyph; you may live longer .Unless of course you'r a worrier, stress easily or smoke. In that case you could drop dead any time.:)

OT; when I lose weight it comes off my bum and thighs, until I look like a pregnant swizzle stick .

Whitefire13's picture
Cranky re: my ass

Cranky re: my ass

Jesus fuckin Christ keep your eyes on the posts! And “my slyphy ass” doesn’t have the same ring to it :)

...I thought of Gru (Despicable me)...when you self-described...

Lion IRC's picture
Jesus used the words "believe

Jesus used the words "believe in me" when speaking to people standing right in front of Him. Clearly He wasn't asking them to 'believe' that He actually existed.

algebe's picture
@LIon IRC:Clearly He wasn't

@LIon IRC:Clearly He wasn't asking them to 'believe' that He actually existed.

Given the vagaries of hearsay, translation, and the effect of linguistic evolution on meanings and nuances, who can say what he meant?

Perhaps he meant "Trust me, I won't lie to you", or "accept that I'm a supernatural being". In English "believe" and "believe in" have completely different meanings.

Loaded words like "believe" need to be viewed with suspicion in translations.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

We all know that 'lyin the lion' uses the Humpty Dumpty Aramaic to English Dictionary when giving cherry picked examples of his 4th hand texts.

You know the one where "words mean precisely what he wants them to mean, neither more nor less"
(apologies to Lewis Carroll.)

boomer47's picture
@Old man

@Old man

"words mean precisely what he wants them to mean, neither more nor less"
(apologies to Lewis Carroll.)


I also think of Lewis Carroll when I run into some Christian apologists, including Lion:

"There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

algebe's picture
@Cranky47: I also think of

@Cranky47: I also think of Lewis Carroll when I run into some Christian apologists

Yes. That passage suggests that Deacon Dodgson was yet another closet atheist in the clergy. And like many other clergymen, he was probably also a pedophile. His photography alone would have got him locked up today.

boomer47's picture


"His photography alone would have got him locked up today."

Yup. From what I've read , some parents were hip to his jive and would not allow him to photograph their little girls.

Again from what I've read, I think there's little doubt that Dodson was a pedophile in the literal sense .IE a lover of children. However, I've seen nothing to suggest he ever got physical with any of the young girls he photographed

But locked up today he would be, as a child pornographer. ,

algebe's picture
@Cranky47: But locked up

@Cranky47: But locked up today he would be, as a child pornographer.

Oh yes. Him and that other notorious photographer, Baden bloody Powell, author of "Scouting for Boys".

boomer47's picture


"Oh yes. Him and that other notorious photographer, Baden bloody Powell, author of "Scouting for Boys". "


One of my girlfriends had a twin brother who I thought was prat. He was also Queen's scout. (US Eagle scout)
So I bought him a poster featuring a leering man in a scouts outfit,. The text read "Baden Powell Liked little boys " At the time I didn't realise it was true.

Me? I never joined the scouts because I considered it a subversive organisation. Plus I was deeply suspicious of grown men who like to wear shorts, hang around young boys and fondle their woggle. .

Whitefire13's picture
@Lion “ Jesus used the words

@Lion “ Jesus used the words "believe in me" when speaking to people standing right in front of Him. ”

So?!?! My ex use to ask me to “believe in him” all the time...

Italianish's picture
Thank you for everyone’s help

Thank you for everyone’s help.. Lion IRC.. just leave please I don’t need you trying to prove that the Bible is true when I’m trying to figure out if it isn’t I don’t need or want you or anyone else trying to prove it true when this topic was to help me see that it isn’t.. I am
Sick of living my life as a slave to a book.. fear.. etc..
I hate hanging out with Christians who always go about “praise the lord” or “the only reason something good happened is because god did it”
I hate.. underline hate.. feeling like I don’t
Have the capacity to do good or love on my own.. yet it’s only Gods doing.
I hate everything about the Bible.. I hate believing in a God who seems to neglect me time after time.

Tin-Man's picture
@Italianish Re: "Lion IRC..

@Italianish Re: "Lion IRC.. just leave please I don’t need you trying to prove that the Bible is true when I’m trying to figure out if it isn’t..."

Hey, big guy, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in this case it would be an injustice to you for me to allow this to pass unchecked. Granted, our dear little Lion cub has certainly demonstrated himself to be an individual of questionable integrity with the intellect of a sea sponge. (My apologies to all sea sponge that might read this. No offense intended.) Nevertheless, if you are personally being upset and become anxious by his (woefully weak) attempts to prove the bible to be true, then - to put it bluntly - that is YOUR problem. It is NOT his problem. To put it another way, you are giving Lion way too much credit and power by asking him to leave. Why allow him to have that type of control over you? Matter of fact, based on the many posts Lion has made so far, I would have to say he is actually doing us (atheists) a FAVOR by being here, because he is one of those "theists" who pretty much does all the work for us in showing the adverse effects religion has on people. So if he wishes remain here and continue to make himself and his "faith" look more and more foolish with each post, then - by golly - it's a free world. His decision... *shrugging shoulders*.... Getting back on point, though, it really isn't Lion or any others like him that are the problem. The actual problem lies within yourself, and you need to look deeply and honestly within yourself and determine exactly what that problem is. Only then will you be able to start fixing it. Which brings us to the next subject...

Re: "I hate everything about the Bible.. I hate believing in a God who seems to neglect me time after time."

Like it or not, using the word "hate" is very near the same as using the word "love". In other words, both are very STRONG emotional reactions, and they are VERY closely related. Like it or not, whenever you hate something as vehemently as you have expressed your hate for the bible and god, you are allowing that "something" to maintain some amount of control over you. You are allowing that something to maintain a hold on you. You are allowing that something to dictate how you might react to other things not even related to that something. STOP giving the bible and the god therein that control over you. And whether you like it or not, it IS YOU giving it that control. And ONLY YOU can take that control away from it. If you hate something, you still have an attachment to it. You still care about it. You still believe in it and you still feel like it owes you something. The bible is a BOOK. Period. It contains words written by MEN. Humans. Edited, (mis)translated, (mis)interpreted, and revised over the course of several centuries. It is NOT perfect by any stretch of the imagination. It is a work of fiction that has been used for centuries to justify some of the most horrific and cruel events known to Mankind. The god described within it came from the imagination of MEN. Ancient men who had practically ZERO knowledge or understanding of modern physics, biology, cosmology, chemistry, or geology. And the god these men created is one of the most sadistic and barbaric beings/entities that can be imagined. In the end, though, the bible is STILL only a BOOK. It is an inanimate object. It has no brain. It does not think. It has no feelings. Now, ask yourself, "Does it make any sense at all to hate something like that?" Because, remember, if you hate something, then YOU are giving that something some amount of control over you. Why would you allow yourself to be controlled by an inanimate object?

Lion IRC's picture
Italianish wrote:

Italianish wrote:

Thank you for everyone’s help...

You're welcome.

Sorry you have to put up with so many off topic posts like the ones above referencing pedophilia. I gather this forum isn't moderated for that type of thing.

Whitefire13's picture
Re Lion “ ...ones above

Re Lion “ ...ones above referencing pedophilia. I gather this forum isn't moderated for that type of thing.”

In other words...why the fuck are you people being “allowed” to discuss the very real topic of child-rapers? ... hmmm... cause we’re empathetic grown ups

Lion IRC's picture
Settle down.

Settle down.
I'm not talking about free speech and I've seen what passes for 'grown up' conversation around here.
I was referring to the obvious lack of moderation to keep threads on topic.

algebe's picture
@Lion IRC: off topic posts

@Lion IRC: off topic posts like the ones above referencing pedophilia

Mea maxima culpa and all that.

But isn't it interesting how discussions about religion always seem to veer pell-mell into comments about pedophiles, pedophile enablers, and pedophile cover-ups. I wonder why that is.

Lion IRC's picture
You can have however much off

You can have however much off topic stuff as you're willing to put up with. Its your forum not mine.

Lion IRC's picture
...and I sense the ban hammer

...anyway, I sense the ban hammer looming on the horizon so you will be able to return to your normal programming soon.
#echo_chamber #confirmation_bias

algebe's picture
@Lion IRC: anyway, I sense

@Lion IRC: anyway, I sense the ban hammer looming on the horizon

That would be a pity. I haven't noticed any ban-worthy comments from you. I think you might get away with just the 39 lashes.

Lion IRC's picture
I think you know as well as I

I think you know as well as I do that 'trolling' is in the eye of the beholder.
And that most AvT fora have it there in Teh Rulez as a conveniently subjective mechanism for dealing with people like me.
I got banned by PZ Myers for "insipidity".
It took Calilassea's buddies at RatSkep over 4,000 posts to decide whether or not I was a troll.

algebe's picture
@Lion IRC: You can have

@Lion IRC: You can have however much off topic stuff as you're willing to put up with

Since you're in it, it's your forum as much as mine.

You can read or not read, respond or not respond, stay on topic or veer off. The choice is yours.

Tin-Man's picture
@The Lion Squeaks Tonight

@The Lion Squeaks Tonight

...*dangling long length of yarn in teasing manner*... Kitty-kitty!... Heeeere, kitty-kitty... *playful high-pitched voice*... Get-the-yarn... Get-it, get-it.... *dragging yarn across floor in zig-zag pattern*... Awww... There's a good kitty-kitty!... Get-the-yarn... Get it, you cute little snookie-wookums...

...*speaking to Italianish*... See? You just have to know to distract these little fellas... *pointing to Lion*... Isn't he just the most adorable little fur ball you've ever seen?.... *adoring smile*...

Cognostic's picture
@Lion IRC: Your lucky the

@Lion IRC: Your lucky the mods are so kind. If a quality poster such as yourself entered a theist site they would have been escorted out the front door within seconds. You are on the site by the grace of the mods! They keep hoping something is going to sink in. I, on the other hand, don't believe there is a chance in hell for you.

boomer47's picture


"I hate hanging out with Christians who always go about “praise the lord” "

Me too

There is a simple [not necessarily easy} solution; simply leave. That was one of the things I did with my parents; If they began having a fight in my presence, I simply left. You may not have a right to tell other adults how to behave. BUT, you DO have the right to leave any situation where you feel uncomfortable.

.” feeling like I don’t have the capacity to do good or love on my own..”

IMO that's a pretty arrogant claim to make. What makes you so special?. In my experience, human beings who are not actually psychotic have the capacity to love and are worthy of receiving love.

"Doing good " is about one's personal morality and world view. Nothing to do with religion necessarily . If you care about anyone besides yourself, you will do your best to live a moral life, to do 'do good' by the very way you live .

To " do 'the right thing' is the default position for most human beings I've known. EG to choose to be kind rather than cruel or indifferent , to be generous of spirit rather than miserly. These are daily examples of doing good.It's not hard, it's automatic.

Unless you are a total narcissist or a psychopath, get over yourself.

Italianish's picture
Me feeling like I didn’t have

Me feeling like I didn’t have the capacity to do good on my own stems from a long line of
“God is good, the only reason good things happen is because of God.. the only reason you do good now is cuz you’re a son of the most high and he works through you for you to do good” etc..
It’s not arrogance and I am not psychotic.. I was conditioned and confused.. when I was a Christian my will to do right in and of myself was liike..
“Do right and love because it’s the right thing to do, not because God says so” and I learned that from my real father in various ways.
Not all of it was from him some of it was just me.
I can’t compare my experience in the Christian life style with anyone else’s..
It’s been a struggle.. up hill in the snow no shoes no shirt and the hill was an abstract mountain.
I’m not just in the process of healing my conditioned mind.. I had a number of various religious imposed issues that I believe some
Of you haven’t struggled with.
I was declining cuz of religion not ascending.
My friends that were believers have constantly went on about how God is the only source of good and I am just a worthless sinner who developed worth simply because Jesus said so and gave it to me.
I’m worth more than what the Bible painted me out to be even as a child of god with all the perks.. and that’s just me as a man. There’s no gain in living with a false identity in a false reality based on biblical beliefs I won’t have it .

boomer47's picture


" I had a number of various religious imposed issues that I believe some
Of you haven’t struggled with."

Really. Such as what exactly? You are aware that most of our members began as believers of some kind?
I'm on tenter hooks to learn of your unique experiences.

Unless you can read minds, you're in no position to know what people here have experienced about anything unless we tell you. .

Italianish's picture
For starters I was in and out

For starters I was in and out of a behavioral health clinic because I developed terrible ocd over believing that if I did anything then my family or someone else would perish..
I started “feeling gods presence” and it messed me over. On top of that I had neighbors who claimed that god spoke to them.. so I thought it was god communicating with me.
I felt like if I didn’t do what this presence was telling me to do that my family or someone else would burn in the lake of fire for eternity.
I felt like
If I
Drank water, ate.. played a
Video game etc really anything I wanted to do but felt I shouldn’t then someone would perish.
For the first week
Or so before the first hospital visit I was stuck. I couldn’t take a step
Without it effecting me I would stand still in my room
Struck by fear. Legs hurt got thirsty couldn’t drink cuz their end would soon come so I didn’t drink. I didn’t eat.. I started losing it. Stress and fear came upon like a dawn.
Anger. Guilt built up. This continued, I went to
The hospital.. I felt like
If I did the things I needed to do to take care of myself
That I would be judged guilty and that I would burn forever too.
I was in the hospital for a month and a half I think?
And they gave me a medication over prescribed over the safe miligram quantity and i became obese.. the withdrawals were horrible when I got off.. and I wanna mention that k developed diabetes because of my sugar intake.. he medication was dangerous..
I became ugly fat and unhealthy.. reality wasn’t the same.
I became bed ridden because I felt I couldn’t do
Anything without the obsessive thought and feeling caused chain reaction.
For years on and off I have been in and out of the hospital
I believed the Bible 100% too scared to look it over with a
Critical mind..
I read the meat before the milk.. and more issue got piled..
people tried to help me. But for someone to say that the Bible has all the answers we would ever need.. the Bible didn’t have the answer that I was starving for..
I hoped that I would get out of it I prayed I asked for others to pray.. I myself got myself out of it.. the superstition was there too from outside influences..
so it was a
Cyclical hell..
I feel like I have literally been within my own hell for the passed 6-7 years
Think before you judge.. I wasn’t arrogant. I was conditioned and I am not psychotic.
Don’t assume and whatever issue I have in your life I suggest you fix it.. I had to re edit this message cuz I blew up on you for making me feel so small and boxed in.. I’ve Been put in multiple boxes other than religion around these days in my life..
I also was suffering for years from Abuse from narcissistic people.. two.. who were “Christians” who usually implies that
I had to follow these superstitions and broken conscience obessesions.. you don’t know the madness I went through. There’s so much more I can say and I wasn’t trying to compare my issue to
Anyone else’s I firmly believe my experience was unique. And that no one else dealt with it I didn’t mean to sound arrogant or anything related..
I also don’t feel the need to explain it all to you..
I lost so much cuz of a false book.. so much. There’s way more but I refuse to tell it all now. Maybe one day in a
Different setting.
Edit again:
I’ve been in and out of the hospital several times over the past 7 years, dealing with these issues of fear and pain I also had to
Deal with people in the hospital who were psychotic.. I don’t even know where to go
With this one..
there’s just so much to tell..
god was never there for me, I wasted time as I wasted away.
Thankfully I came to this website where some of you have helped me, I wasn’t trying to say that my experience was worse than any of yours.

Whitefire13's picture

The emotional aspect of leaving is real. The anger...oh, yah, been there. The “realization” of what has been stolen from you and replaced with ingrained shit-thinking - uh,huh. The “what if’s” that come...(for me it was - what if I hadn’t been “held back” in school by my parents, or the simple joys of birthdays and Christmas, etc)

Give yourself the time you need to grieve and be angry.
Then start living. Realize that you now decide today. Your likes, dislikes, activity, own this; You got this...

BTW - Cranky is a cranky old fart who was lovingly try to say not to feel too sorry for yourself - that we have lots of different experiences and some of us can relate.


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