Bible contradiction help need and why I shouldn’t believe?

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Tin-Man's picture
@Sheldon Re: To Apollo -

@Sheldon Re: To Apollo - "Now that was fucking hilarious, deliberate?"

Sadly, I don't think Apollo or Lion either one have the capacity to be intentionally funny. What's worse, I doubt they even realize when they are being funny by accident.

Sheldon's picture


I'd guessed as much, seems like Apollo accidentally hit the irony button with his elbow.

Still it's good to know that he can occasionally say something funny, even if it is unintentional.

So our egos are so fragile, that theists chase us onto an atheist forum to peddle their superstitious wares to us. It must be because there are so many of us and so few of them...

Italianish's picture
Apollo, this might not appeal

I don’t really want anyone encouraging me to believe in the Bible.
I’ve read enough of it, and I’ve read enough contradictions..
yet for all the believers here trust Me, I know some
Of them can be explained with scripture... yet some of them are too far from it..
like the genealogy, in order for us to trust a book that is claimed to be fully true and follow it.. in my opinion, it should actually be fully true.
It’s 2020.
Why isn’t it since the time it was written,
We can see clearly that Judas died twice two different ways..
I need to get rid of the indoctrination in my mind and be able to think clearly.
I apologize for my behavior in text.. I go through a lot more than just biblical matters.
I’m healing and in the process of slow recovery.

David Killens's picture
@ Italianish

@ Italianish

"I don’t really want anyone encouraging me to believe in the Bible."

Take your time, the decisions you are making are very importany to you.

Listen to all sides of the argument, then remove yourself from any influence, and just think things through carefully.

And no matter what you decide Italianish, I wish you the best.

Cognostic's picture
@All: I thought I would

@All: I thought I would just mention... "Beauty is only skin deep but ignorance goes all the way to the bone!"

Sheldon's picture
@ Cognostic

@ Cognostic

Nice, I must remember that phrase.

boomer47's picture


"Beauty is only skin deep but ignorance goes all the way to the bone!"

Really .I hadn't heard that. In my shallow youth we said "Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way to the bone." We were far to ignorant to know any better ***

When I was about 14, I opined that I'd really love to be rich . To which my mum replied; "That's nice dear, but remember money can't buy love"

Little smart arse that I was , I retorted "Perhaps not, but it can buy an awful lot of affection"

I've been well- to- do, I've been poor and I've been comfy. . If I had my druthers I'd druther be well- to- do .


*** I have known several women I thought were ugly on first impression. One I married and two I fell in love with. Don't know if this happens to you. As I get to know a person, my physical perception of them changes, always for the better, so far. I've had the wonderful experience of seeing ugly become gorgeous.

--I've also noticed how different everything looks after I return home say after a couple of months away.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cranky Re: "*** I have

@Cranky Re: "*** I have known several women I thought were ugly on first impression."

Yep, same here. At the same time, I have met some absolutely drop-dead gorgeous women I could not stand to look at or be near because of their deplorable personalities.

boomer47's picture


"I have met some absolutely drop-dead gorgeous women I could not stand to look at or be near because of their deplorable personalities."

I can think of two: One was a girl in my neighbourhood, my age. : Piercing light blue eyes, natural platinum blonde, as far as I know. She was a slyph , perfection to gaze upon. She was featured in a photographic book called 'Australia's Beautiful Women', in 1969. I know, because mum thoughtfully sent me a clipping,

One day, as I was walking around the neighbourhood, when --bump--Says I : 'G'day Jezebel**, how ya goin;?" ***

Quoth she with a breathless simper and a thick, very common Aussie accent; " Hmf, G'day Cranky .(Fuck! She remembered my name!) Last night I went out with a PORSCHE! Tonight I'm going out with a MERCEDES!" (yes, she really did speak with the use of capitals. )

The other wasn't actually ugly. A mate's older sister, my age of 18.. She was the most stunningly beautiful woman I had ever seen. Like a willow, jet black hair, deep, limpid brown eyes, olive skin Mum said Doreen* *looked like a Hawaiian princess . I was far too young for her. Just as well, Doreen , like her equally beautiful mother before her, made the average kangaroo seem intellectually gifted She was also innately warm and kind hearted .

So of course Doreen became pregnant to some dropkick at age 18, and got married at about 7 months. She then (she told me) promptly stopped dieting, forever . Doreen then popped out five more units.. Last timeI saw her she'd had three. I still recognised the beautiful hair, the wonderful eyes, the skin, and her innately warm heart.

Doreen remained the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen until 1970. That was when I saw the glorious France Nuyen in "South Pacific"


**not their real names.

***Was trying to evoke C J Dennis' immortal 'poem, in dialect , 'Songs Of The Sentimental Bloke'. It dawned on me that very few people outside of Oz would have heard of him . So, below a brief excerpt ,and a link to the 1919 silent film, 'The Sentimental Bloke' ,in the off chance you might be interested.

"The Intro

'ER name's Doreen… Well, spare me bloomin' days!⁠
You could 'a' knocked me down wiv 'arf a brick!
⁠Yes, me, that kids me self I know their ways,
⁠An' 'as a name fer smoogin' in our click!
I jist lines up an' tips the saucy wink.
But strike! The way she piled on dawg! Yeh'd think
⁠A bloke wus givin' back-chat to the Queen….
⁠⁠'Er name's Doreen.⁠

I seen 'er in the markit first uv all,
Inspectin' brums at Steeny Isaacs' stall.
⁠I backs me barrer in—the same ole way—
⁠An' sez, "Wot O! It's been a bonzer day.
'Ow is it fer a walk?"… Oh, 'oly wars!
The sort o' look she gimme! Jest becors
⁠I tried to chat 'er, like yeh'd make a start
⁠⁠Wiv any tart."

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Cranky

@ Cranky

Oi fink da septics an der Poms are gonna need a translation for tha'un maaate.

boomer47's picture
@Old man shouts

@Old man shouts

"Oi fink da septics an der Poms are gonna need a translation for tha'un maaate."

Probably, I had to read it pretty carefully . Still a great poem.

David Killens's picture

Her ego wrote cheques incredibly fast
But her personality didn't have the cash

The story of my 20's until I figured out personality and brains trumps good looks.

LogicFTW's picture


Yep, same here. At the same time, I have met some absolutely drop-dead gorgeous women I could not stand to look at or be near because of their deplorable personalities.

I too have experienced this, women that fit a certain narrow stereotype of "pretty" (I call it the barbie doll look,) that are very pretty in that way, and worse; when they know it, are quite often the last girl in the world I at least would like to date, and certainly, imho, last type of girl I would want to marry. I think for many young women when they get that much attention that early in their lives, all too often it twists their sense of entitlement. I have met the rare exception, those 1 in a million are almost always already married or seriously dating.

I have friends that complain their single, but then later reveal they are only interested in that sort of barbie doll look, I keep it to myself, but inwardly, I roll my eyes and think. "They are going to be single, or in and out of toxic relationships, until they change their mindset. Fortunately quite a few of my friends did outgrow that stuff and found wonderful, beautiful people that they created lasting positive relationships with.

Cognostic's picture
I've never placed great

I've never placed great emphasis on looks. All a woman has to do to get my interest is laugh at my jokes. I do gravitate towards the more sporty models, probably because I have always been into sports myself. Still, nothing is as attractive as a smile and a good sense of humor.

Italianish's picture
Thank You for everyone’s

Thank You for everyone’s support.
This has been helpful for Me.
So, Christians aren’t supposed to judge unless it’s righteous judgement.. in context, when I was a believer I preferred mercy triumphs over judgement.
There’s nothing wrong with the atheists here, both sides have tried to help me.. with all of my explanations I
Hope the Christians can determine that I am
In fact not interested in the Bible.
I am not even interested in being atheist sometimes I am on a
Journey to prove to myself that consciousness is in everything.
It’s hard to take at face value the Bible there’s contradictions
If anything It comes down to this
God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow biblically, God doesn’t repent, change his mind.
But the contradictions prove this biblical fact to be incorrrect. Isn’t that what some of the contradictions
Seeing God face to face, if it would kill anyone it should kill everyone for God is holy and
At the time man wasn’t even in Christ to be imputed with his righteousness.. it could be understood that once righteous they wouldn’t die at the face of God and even if these people were considered holy they didn’t die even tho it wa said they would. And I see how that could be seen as wrong..
I for one love freedom. And I don’t feel that I need an errant book to tell me how to live my life
There’s a wisdom saying from bruce lee that speaks about take what you want out of things keep what’s helpful and
Forget the rest.
Loving Your enemy and everyone as yourself I agree with.. marrying a woman as an act of worship and service to God isn’t something I agree with..
I want to be the best I can be either way..
everyone’s trying to be helpful.. but please be nice to one another.. both theists and atheist. The fact of the matter remains that we all don’t know exactly what anyone else is going
Through here.. even a smile can save someone’s day.
You’re all doing a good job in helping me, but no name calling please.
I appreciate all of You.
Ps.. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with their ego Apollo, they have some great points it takes a while but thinking logically and correctly trumps blind faith any day, listen if You really believe in God. Be kind to them.. don’t judge them

Cognostic's picture
RE: So, Christians aren’t

RE: So, Christians aren’t supposed to judge unless it’s righteous judgement.. in context, when I was a believer I preferred mercy triumphs over judgement.

Another contradiction. It is impossible to be both merciful and just. Mercy is a suspension of justice. It does not matter what sort of judgment it is. If it is just, it must be carried out. If you are merciful, you must suspend justice. That means justice is no longer just. There is no middle ground here.

Cognostic's picture
RE: "Loving Your enemy and

RE: "Loving Your enemy and everyone as yourself I agree with.."

That's just stupid. Not only do you NOT DO IT. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do. If you were starving to death would you find a way to save your own life? Thousands of people starve to death every year and you have done nothing about it. Don't you love them as yourself or do you just not care. Have you shown your love through action or are you just flapping your gums? YOU DO NOT LOVE EVERYONE AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. You are lying to yourself if you think so.

It's not even a good life strategy. Instead, take care of yourself first. If and when you have the means and the ability to care for others, do so. To do so without being prepared is to destroy your own life.

Whitefire13's picture
@Cog - totally (like totally)

@Cog - totally (like totally) agree with your comment re: “ Loving Your enemy and everyone as yourself I agree with..”

This fuckin explains ALOT about how people treat each other - sooo many don’t know how “to love” themselves - so how the fuck are they suppose to love “others”?!?

Sheldon's picture
Lion IRC "Moses later asks

Lion IRC "Moses later asks to see His real face. Why would Moses ask that if he had already seen the literal, physical face of God?"

Why indeed, it's as if the two biblical claims directly contradict each other. Ahem....

Lion IRC "the text makes it clear that Moses understands he has not actually seen God"

Contradicting the earlier one then, that specifically states Moses saw god face to face, and all you have offered for one passage is a post ad hoc interpretation that has no objective basis, and is directly at odds with the text. While you've ignored the other example altogether.

Lion IRC "the text makes it's not possible for living mortal humans to truly see Him (god)"

...and yet the bible states unequivocally that...

Exodus 33:11
English Standard Version
11 Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

Genesis 32:30
English Standard Version
30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered.”

And God further points out to Moses that it's not possible for living mortal humans to truly see Him."

So directly contradicting two separate passages quoted, which is entirely the point. One of which you have completely ignored, and the other you have arbitrarily decided can't mean what it specifically says, because that would mean it contradicts, and is contradicted by, a later passage.

Hardly a compelling argument is it?

Italianish's picture
Well for God to have all

Well for God to have all these low qualities it’s okay for him.
But when we have these qualities it’s sinful, and because it’s applied to
Is the word changed.
God-righteous anger
Why create us to inevitably be made to fall into sin and then a large percentage of humanity dies forever?
Do u know how much it grinds my gears to be created for worship?
Do u know that if any of this is true a lot of my friends and family wouldn’t be with me in heaven?
How could love itself create life knowing it would inevitably burn forever and ever while others get to be in paradise praising him for it and all he does ?

One time when I was a
Christian, I asked my Christian friend who is also considered a sister in spirit.
I asked her something like”if I went to hell and burned forever, would you praise God for it”
And we got into a argument over how she would still praise God if her brother was burning in utter agony for eternity.
People are not only conditioned to believe in God but are conditioned to Love him.

Lion IRC's picture
What's the difference between

What's the difference between loving God and believing in Him?

Tin-Man's picture
@Lionfart Re: "What's the

@Lionfart Re: "What's the difference between loving God and believing in Him?"

Like me ol' grandpappy use to tell me, "You ain't none too bright, are ya, boy?"

Sheldon's picture
Lion IRC "What's the

Lion IRC "What's the difference between loving God and believing in Him"

They're two entirely different words, what a particularly stupid question. You know you can Google word definitions don't you?


1.accept that (something) is true, especially without proof.

noun intense feeling of deep affection

See, they're not remotely synonymous.

Cognostic's picture
You have to believe it exists

You have to believe it exists before you can love it.

Whitefire13's picture
@Lion... “love” is a word

@Lion... “love” is a word used so often with so many different meanings. I love my coffee in the morning. I love my boys. I love Ryan Reynolds. How something makes me feel. So the idea of god makes you feel something.

The idea of believing in god is thinking it’s true. The things a person can love are usually evidenced (coffee in hand, check. Boys asleep, check. Ryan Reynold, quick google, sigh, he doesn’t even know my skinny ass is alive, check). I said “usually” because people can love all sorts of things...believe things too - the question is...

What is your standard for love and belief?

Lion IRC's picture
The biblical word translated

The biblical word translated as "believe" connotes a trust in God.
In modern language "belief" equates to something along the lines of ...I believe my football team will win, or I believe it will rain tomorrow, or I don't believe Donald Trump.

Similarly, the biblical expression "love God" or the Lord with all you heart and all your soul and all your strength, encompasses trust/belief in Him and His Word.

So you see, love of God and believing in Him are effectively one in the same sentiment.

algebe's picture
@Lion IRC: In modern language

@Lion IRC: In modern language "belief" equates to something along the lines of ...

The strongest way to express certainty is a flat statement. For example, "Hydrogen is an element." No ifs. No buts. No maybes.

As soon as you add other words, your betray a lack of certainty.
"I think hydrogen is an element."
"I'm sure hydrogen is an element."
"Hydrogen must be an element."

Even "I know hydrogen is element" betrays a degree of doubt.

And right at the bottom of this hierarchy of certainty is "I believe".

Sheldon's picture
@Lion IRC

@Lion IRC

We dont filter words subjectively through archaic superstitious texts, why on earth would we, they'd lose all relevance, much as they do when you do it.

Use the dictionary, otherwise debate is rendered moot.

Lion IRC's picture

Hermeneutics. Look it up.
You wanna quote the bible at me, you need to deal with exegesis. If you can't then don't bother attempting a *cough* 'debate'.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Lyin

@ Lyin

Hermeneutics...the practise of taking completely unrelated verses from a text or unrelated texts to change the meaning of a word or phrase to suit the presuppositions or arguments of the practitioner.

You are not the only one to practise such dishonesty on these forums. The last refuge of the apologetic scoundrel I say.


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