Bible contradiction help need and why I shouldn’t believe?

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Whitefire13's picture
@Italianish...” feeling like

@Italianish...” feeling like I don’t have the capacity to do good or love on my own..”

Pick up a piece of paper. Stand with it in front of you. Is this piece of paper “the only thing stopping you from...(pick one “murder”)”.

And yes, you love without it too.

It’s been “you” all along. You’re just setting a new standard. Take some credit for it.

Italianish's picture
Thank you everyone and even

Thank you everyone and even you Lion IRC..
you can stay..
let’s try to have a healthy debate..
It’s within my own personal belief that we should let bygones be bygones..
Forgiveness is a beautiful thing wether it’s religious or not.
Because if we forgive the one who hurt us, then we’re not only letting them off the hook but we’re letting ourselves off some hooks.. hooks of grudges anger and possibly hate.. forgive. Clean slate. You don’t have to forget but you can keep forgiving until whatever it is that someone did doesn’t have power over us anymore
Biblically yes we should forgive so I want to say...
Lion IRC I believe you’re a Christian..
Of course by all means love yourself for you and you alone. Try not to let your beliefs box you in. Do some research on your own. Try to
Think critically.. I don’t know if people here are a certain way towards you because of something you did or said..
I believe debates should be healthy and non toxic from both sides..
a persons religious views doesn’t make the person more correct than one who doesn’t believe. It doesn’t make a person better..
what matters is how you treat yourself and how you treat others.
My beliefs dragged me down and all up and around different places in life.
I want to love myself for me and I’ve been struggling with it daily.. but there isn’t a day I don’t put in some effort.
Despite whatever your beliefs are, just be kind to yourself and us. I will do the same..
as for people who don’t believe I want the same
For you..
it doesn’t have to be war between opposing beliefs..
Although I have to say.. that when Christians come on out of nowhere to try to spread the gospel sometimes they make others feel unworthy and inferior.. it makes us feel small if we believe what you say is true, on the other hand it’s also annoying. I understand at a level of goodness that some Christians do it because they genuinely care about others going to heaven.
But some of us know how to live heaven on earth away from
The Bible and god.
We all have our own issues.. and I feel like a lot of you have been kinda mean toward Lion IRC I don’t know his intentions or yours or what went on in the past..
but if we debate can we at least try to let it be healthy? From both sides.. I’m an atheist guys I’m almost
Free and I see clearer now than I used to. Thank you again for all the help.
And I’m sure at the core level you’re all wonderful people some of you have shown in ways that my eyes have seen more than others. But I’m sure if I look
Again with the correct perception I will see it more.

Tin-Man's picture
@Italianish Re: "I don’t

@Italianish Re: "I don’t know if people here are a certain way towards you (Lion) because of something you did or said.."

In an effort to help put your mind at ease a bit, our wonderful Lion was a parasitic troll. Plain and simple. Notice I used "was", as in past tense, as in he is no longer with us due to his (rather amateurish) trolling activities. And from my experiences on this site, there is NO WAY of having a genuine and productive discussion with an individual whose sole intention is to purposely disrupt and distort the legitimate discussions of others. And my personal view of folks like Lion is they deserve ZERO respect and no form of common courtesy. As far as I am concerned, they are good only for cheap entertainment and (sometimes) a useful means of allowing other site members to highlight various aspects of religious nonsense. Fear not, however. Because even with Lion being booted into the Netherworld, rest assured there will soon be another who will arrive to fill his shoes.... *chuckle*...

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ TM

@ TM

At least we know where all the odd socks are going from the laundry.....

Cognostic's picture



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Italianish's picture
I just want to say that so

I just want to say that so far you have stuck out the most to me Tin-Man. When I go here I think of your posts and how kind you were to me and I
Grateful. I just wanted to put out there that how you were to me, has been beautiful.
I wanna re read all the posts here from everyone, I just recently figured out that people can post in between posts that were already posted and I missed a lot.
I’m sure most of you have been kind, I wanna re read them for my self education and to come
Back and say thank you to all of you.
It’s like you all helped me set myself free from
Religion and that’s a biggie ❤️

ilovechloe's picture
Just my 2 cents worth:

Just my 2 cents worth:

If a god does exist, who is powerful enough to create a universe & everything in it, & he wants everybody to know him, why would this god use a book to communicate with everyone. God could have used any technology he wanted to communicate with us.

And if this god DID decide a book was the best way to communicate with us, then why didn't he write it himself, instead of using humans to write it? God could have written a book that everybody, regardless of their language or reading ability could understand, & that is NOT open to interpretation.

The other problem with using a book to communicate is that if people don't like the book, they will alter the text, or create their own book to replace it, which is what has happened, & why we have many competing religions.

A powerful universe creating god using a book written by sheep herders to communicate with us makes absolutely no sense!

There is also no way to know if the "author" of the bible is the good guy, or the bad guy. The bible says 'god is good', but would you expect the bad guy to say anything else? The god of the bible appears to do, & demand from his followers some pretty evil shit. The so called bad guy, satan, dosnt do much bad stuff at all! The only evil stuff satan did, was at the behest of god in the book of job..

Italianish's picture
Plus in Judaism satan was on

Plus in Judaism satan was on gods side. In Christianity satan is gods enemy

cranky47's picture


"Plus in Judaism satan was on gods side. In Christianity satan is gods enemy"

I didn't know that.

Do you think it could possibly have anything to do with the different perceptions of Satan in Judaism and in Christianity? ?


"Jewish View
He (Satan) is clearly subordinate to God, a member of His suite (Heb. Bene ha-elokim), who is unable to act without his permission. Nowhere is he in any sense a rival of God. The Encyclopedia Judaica The Christian claim that it was Satan who created evil is utterly fraudulent according to our Tanach: I (God) form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 God creates all things, not simply good things. There isn't a single verse in the entire Tanach that states that Satan ever created evil or ever disobeyed a command from God. Satan is an obedient servant of God in the Tanach who serves the role of man's accuser in God's court. "

Creation of Temptation
God created the temptation to do evil partially to test our loyalty, and partially to improve us. That is why the word (Satan- שטן) in Hebrew literally means an adversary (Numbers 22:22) that comes to challenge us. We find this notion throughout the Book of Job, where God gives permission to the Satan to challenge the righteous Job. In fact, one of the most dramatic and powerful expressions of man’s struggle with God and his conscience involves Job and Satan. God had given Satan permission to afflict Job with all manner of hardships and misfortune. In turn, Job loses his family and possessions, and is stricken with boils and disease. As he sits in sheer agony, his close colleagues remark, “Your piety is your foolishness.” Even his wife chews him out, saying, "Are you still holding fast to your integrity? Curse God, and die." But Job tells them, "You speak as one who is despicable. Should we accept only the good from God and not also accept the evil?”(Job 2:9‑10)

"Christian View
In Christian belief, Satan is a fallen angel that has freedom of choice and rebels against God. Christians conveniently use the “Satan, to explain any evil or irrational behavior (such as non belief in Jesus as messiah or god). The New Testament is fertile ground for this outlook. It is only here that Satan becomes a wicked, rebellious angel, which quite likely evolved the character called Satan into an evil angel and enemy of God based on theological Persian dualism where such a construct is present."

Suggestion:. Before making such claims , perhaps do a bit of research. The opinion you have presented sounds suspiciously like that of a Christian apologist who knows little or nothing about Judaism. .There is also more than a hint of antisemitism, imo.

I'm not saying the above is the last word, only that it presents a different view from yours.


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