Bible contradiction help need and why I shouldn’t believe?

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Italianish's picture
Bible contradiction help need and why I shouldn’t believe?

Hello everyone, I have been a believer in Jesus for years..
please don’t judge.. I’m not here to cause a fight, however in spite of all the illnesses and repression’s of emotional and mental abuse I’ve received from many places including so called Christians .. (I don’t want to name all of the issues I have)
It is extremely difficult for my mind to work with me on the matter about the Bible and God.
I have been researching multiple topics and websites about contradictions.. and I as a Christian learning from the Bible have learned multiple ways a believer can use whatever it is to show in context and explain the inconsistencies and how everything fits together
.
The issue at hand is.. a part of me still believes out of fear of one day the end will come and I’m sure a lot of you know the biblical story.
Even with the evidence I have found.. I am looking for intelligent atheists who can encourage me and help me see that if the Bible was truly fallible and errant, I feel the need to see your take on things..
I don’t want to be a believer if the Bible isn’t true.. for I feel the that I am a human Being just as any other human.. and if the Bible isn’t true I can honestly say that I don’t need to use the New Testament as a moral compass..
I however have also witnessed the Old Testament and what happened, and I can honestly say I don’t agree.
And I know how certain atheists can be with sarcasm.. and I find that stuff utterly annoying and belittling.
I am not “holier than thou” type of believer either.
So please don’t treat me as if I was a high maintenanced judgmental and hypocrital Man.
I simple ask for respect, encouragement and kindness as a human individual.. thank You.

Ps..
I don’t know where this post is supposed to go. I hope I’m not posting in the incorrect place.

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Nyarlathotep's picture
Italianish...if the Bible isn

Italianish...if the Bible isn’t true I can honestly say that I don’t need to use the New Testament as a moral compass...

Uh, have you read the New Testament?

Anyway, you mentioned contradictions? Are you asking for examples or something else?

Whitefire13's picture
Italianish - I read your

Italianish - I read your thread opening and your other comment on the other thread. You’ve expressed emotions, thoughts, turmoils and a desire to help your fellow man, that I too shared, (in religious context).

Please provide one emotional belief you feel attached to and the scriptural backing for it. There are a multitude of beliefs by Christians.

Tin-Man's picture
Hey there, Italianish.

Hey there, Italianish. Welcome to the AR. If you are looking for answers, you are in the right place.

I, for one, can totally relate to that uncomfortable nagging fear of hell and "the end of days" whispering maliciously from the back of the brain. Although I was raised in a Christian family/community, all those bothersome inconsistencies in the bible were something that always raised questions/doubts, even when I was a little kid. Even so, that threat of hell bacame firmly implanted into my still-developing brain. As such, it took me over forty years to escape my religious indoctrination. Because although I really WANTED to research/study the inconsistencies and contradictions, part of my indoctrination dictated that doing so would likely buy me a one-way ticket to the Eternal Lake of Fire. Believe me, though, you are VERY MUCH justified in having your doubts. Hopefully it won't take you as long as it took me to get past your fear and start learning.

Calilasseia's picture
Well if you're looking for

Well if you're looking for reasons to treat the requisite mythology as mythology, try the fact that it was written by people who were too stupid to count correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, and who thought genetics was controlled by coloured sticks. That should be a good starting point.

We can move on to more substantive matter later.

Sheldon's picture
@Italianish

@Italianish

Hi Italianish, welcome to AR. Have you really considered whether you want your beliefs held up to uncompromising critical scrutiny? I only ask because if as you say you are dealing with other emotional issues, then it might be too much too soon, to see beliefs you cherish torn away on top of that?

Otherwise, you have come to the right place, but please accept that I sincerely don't want anything i say to have a significant impact on your welfare, or on anyone's welfare.

Anyway there's the disclaimer, now welcome aboard, and don't worry atheism is not nearly as scary a prospect as you may have been led to believe, now enjoy....

Algebe's picture
@Italianish:

@Italianish:

Have you ever bought imported flatpack furniture or electronic gear and struggled to understand the translated instructions? Well the entire Bible, your assembly and operating instructions for life, is translated from several different languages.

The Italians coined a phrase, Traduttore, traditore (translator, traitor) because they were unhappy with the way Dante had been translated. Do you think the Bible translations are any better.

I've been a professional translator for over 40 years, so I can tell you that translation is impossible. Words evolve in cultural environments that are inevitably lost in translation. That's especially true of languages from widely disparate cultures and eras, like Bronze and Iron Age nomadic societies and modern urban/technological societies. Even simple concepts like "young woman" and "virgin" can get confused.

Before you look for contradictions in your Bible, ask yourself if you even know what you're reading. Can you trust the unknown translators who authored the Bible?

Sheldon's picture
Algebe "Before you look for

Algebe "Before you look for contradictions in your Bible, ask yourself if you even know what you're reading. Can you trust the unknown translators who authored the Bible?"

Bullseye.....right on the money....no prisoners taken...etc etc etc....

Italianish's picture
Okay thank You everyone, this

Okay thank You everyone, this is my attempt at answering everyone

Nyarlahotep: I simply desire for whatever contradictions one might have and their take on it.
With Christians were taught everything we read we need to read in context, were taught that we learn about one part of the Bible through another.
One of my favorite contradictions is the genealogies in Matthew and Luke compared to each other and another in Genesis..
yes it might be easy to see this. Yet it’s difficult for the complexity of My mind to allow me to live freely from what I’m about to explain.
Maybe it’s my subconscious fear that disallows me to stop believing entirely yet it’s bigger than that.
I think that an infallible and inerrant book should be perfect, front to back.. from the first to last page..
however once one finds something in error for something as a genealogy, I ponder how much more inconsistencies there would be within the book, my rational mind is saying..” either it’s all a joke or none of it is”
While dealing with the possible irrational fear that the Bible is totally true..
It’s complicated even though there are two genealogies inconsistent with each other as well of as in genesis
While at the same time according to the flesh with the Bible Jesus was King David’s descendant.. yet Jesus’ Step Father Joseph isn’t his biological Father.
And Joseph is a biological descendant of King David on both accounts of Jesus’ genealogy mentioned in both Luke and Matthew:.
It’s possible that my subconscious is full of irrational self..
only because the Bible did a number on me and possibly caused me to have OCD based on my fear as well as the Bible didn’t make sense to me when I first started reading it.
I’m trying to explain the best I can without giving too much information.. the least I can say is this isn’t all of it and it’s extremely difficult to be able to wrap my understanding about this topic in an organized fashion.
I used to be simple.. believe me lol.
If You or anyone else can find out what other obvious contradictions there are please let me know..
as a
Christian knowing what I know about theists there’s always an answer about it not being inconsistent; perhaps even a way around it without answering it logically. And yes I read the New Testament and it kind of insults Me.. I don’t even live by every word of the Bible.. i did what I could to be a real believer in Christianity.. I did struggle heaping amounts of various mazes trying to perform what I was supposed to.

Whitefire13:
I mean as a man who’s still somewhat separate from biblical morality as opposed to my empathetic sense of morality..
Say for instance.. the Bible speaks of loving an enemy in the New Testament when originally it has been said to hate them Old Testament wise..
I hurt my enemies in spite of defending myself against them..
and I’ll tell ya.. once I understood that I inflicted the damage of emotional offense as a defense I felt bad.. compassion somewhat fills me once I gain clarity on the matter.. I in general don’t like hurting anyone.. I’ll feel bad about it.. even if it’s somewhat small of a thing.. even if it’s a personal enemy of Mine.. it doesn’t matter what he did to Me.. if I fight back and I succeed I’ll eventually feel bad..
The Bible easily can offer a way of adding to morality.. it depends on how you look at it and how you were raised
The way I treat my fellow man isn’t always religiously based.. the Bible can say one thing or another I prefer being sincere to myself then my fellow Man.. which is also biblical.. yet at times I lose sight of it coming from the Bible and I look being sincere in those ways from a realists standpoint.. bottom line is I don’t like hurting myself or others based on the principle that I don’t enjoy it, emotionally.. which has some ties sometimes close or far from scripture.. if you want scripture on some of the topics I meant I’ll post them.. yet with the Bible I feel obligated to to it.. I’m not the type of man that wants to be obligated or to be a slave to righteousness in order to do what I personally believe everyone can do within the best interest of the self, the fellow man and the earth itself with all its Inhabitants.

Tin-Man:
If you would like to I ask that You elaborate more on what you have discussed I feel like you have some of the answers I’m looking for.. I was taught once saved always saved because of church life... not the easy believing where you’re saved and you spend your entire life purposely breaking the Ten Commandments by living a party life.. I struggle with smoking cigarettes it’s a habit that I formed years ago.. and I’ve even felt condemned by that.. let alone anything else.. and I understand where You’re coming from because I’ve been and still go through with it. Thank You.

Calilasseia:
Yes I’ve read those too. And it confused Me.. I went through reading a long essay about the ark and how it wouldn’t be possible for so many reasons.. yet my Christian mind is so creative in the fact that it basically allows me to come up with reasons as to why it’s possible.

Sheldon:
I see Your point however:. I feel like I’m a
Slave.. I feel like I’m neglected in my relationship with God. When I go to church I’m the black sheep.. I don’t feel like I belong..
everything seems like obligation stemming from the irrational fear.. yet I know I’ve been taught better and there’s two reasons why the end is an irrational fear..
because I’m either saved or it isn’t going to happen.
In order for me to be real with myself.. if I were to follow a book that is said to be truly infallible and truly inerrant.. it truly has to be those things or else I’m wasting my time.. time from what I hear You can’t get back.. i am only in my late 20/s.. yet I’ve lost sooo much of my life because of my experience with Christianity.. if it isn’t concrete truth.. I do not want to go on further. So if You have answers that shows the Bible to not be true I don’t feel the need to argue with You.

And thank You all for your support and questions I appreciate being welcomed into this community, and I appreciate the kindness.
Ps I am the type of man who would rather be show and give kindness no strings attached
I don’t like doing it because I’m commanded to. I don’t feel free if it’s obligatory.

cranky47's picture
@Italianish

@Italianish

Welcome, IF you are indeed genuine.

PART ONE

I think you may be missing the point. This is an atheist forum. It is based on one simple idea. ; most of members here do not believe in god(s).

If one is unable to believe in gods , how can one believe any religion is true? (that's a rhetorical question)

Why do so many people disbelieve? A common position is like mine; I do not believe in gods due to a total lack of proof.

Try to find some credible evidence for the existence of gods. Do let us know if you succeed, as not one person has done so in recorded history.

Oh, please do not fall for the common response from theists asking you to prove god does not exist---- it is up to the person making the claim to provide proof, not to others to disprove a claim.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

PART TWO

If you have decided you still believe in god, I urge you to do some serious reading. The books listed below take a scholarly, critical look at christianity.

Pretty sure these books are available in PDF form for a few dollars. OR any public library should have them ,or will be able to get them in by inter library transfer for free.

"Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why (published as Whose Word Is It? in United Kingdom) is a book by Bart D. Ehrman, a New Testament scholar at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.[1] The book introduces lay readers to the field of textual criticism of the Bible. Ehrman discusses a number of textual variants that resulted from intentional or accidental manuscript changes during the scriptorium era. The book made it to The New York Times Best Seller List.[2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus

"Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew" --he writes about the DOZENS of competing sects, up until the fourth century. At that time, the religion today called christianity was made the state religion by emperor Theodosius (NOT Constantine) He approved of and encouraged the early church to burn any dissenting works they could find, and murder any 'heretics' and 'pagans' they could get their hands on. They did so for the next 1000 odd years;

(3) "The Gnostic Gospels " by Eliane Pagels;

"Elaine Pagels, née Hiesey (born February 13, 1943), is an American religious historian. She is the Harrington Spear Paine Professor of Religion at Princeton University. Pagels has conducted extensive research into early Christianity and Gnosticism.

Her best-selling book The Gnostic Gospels (1979) examines the divisions in the early Christian church, and the way that women have been viewed throughout Jewish history and Christian history. Modern Library named it as one of the 100 best books of the twentieth century."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Pagels

(4) LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT: Learn to think critically. If you have spent a long time believing in any religion , you are probably not used to thinking critically . Read , and listen to any religious claims critically. Familiarise yourself with the common logical fallacies

"In reasoning to argue a claim, a fallacy is reasoning that is evaluated as logically incorrect and that undermines the logical validity of the argument and permits its recognition as unsound. Regardless of their soundness, all registers and manners of speech can demonstrate fallacies."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

I'm afraid there are no easy fixes if you want to deconstruct christianity.

The good news is there are some pretty good minds on this forum, some even have enough patience to help you with details. Sadly, I don't qualify in either case.

Whitefire13's picture
It sounds like you’re off and

It sounds like you’re off and running, “thinking for yourself”. Many of us have gone through the process of “deconverting” (is that a word???!) ourselves and the emotions (and social) connections tied with it. Others, like yourself, are in that process. Others never had to experience it at all.

I liked your word choices of “biblical morality” and “empathetic morality” ... and don’t feel obligated to provide scriptures. So, keeping in the “moral” vein and the Ten Commandments (so very common and depending where you live, openly displayed), I will pick only one Command.

This One Commandment is one, that with a great amount of certainty I can say is NEVER broken (however, I fear once I mention it, fellow heathens are going to be quick to break it).

Are you ready?...it’s “ Don’t boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.” Exodus 34.

It’s the 10th Command and the account is written after Moses broke the first set and God re-wrote them, literally, with some tweaking. The Commandments were carried around in the Ark. Hebrews 9:4 states that the Ark contained "the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant."

The bible is a book written by men, edited by men, controlled by men, etc. Like all books written by humans, it can contain some good points, some good stories - but it is farrrr from inerrant, and does not make much sense.

watchman's picture
Obsatcles in Christianity ...

Obsatcles in Christianity .... Part 1

OK lets take it back to basics.

“Jesus of Nazareth”.
Why Nazareth ?
The writer of Matthew started the deceit that the title 'Jesus the Nazarene' should in some manner relate to Nazareth, by quoting 'prophecy':
"And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene." – Matthew 2.23.

With this, Matthew closes his fable of Jesus's early years.

Yet Matthew is misquoting– he would surely know that NOWHERE in Jewish prophetic literature is there any reference to a Nazarene.

What is 'foretold' (or at least mentioned several times) in Old Testament scripture is the appearance of a Nazarite.

(Note1 this makes more sense than the possibility of Nazareth being a “typo” for stem or branch.

Don’t forget the Jews were expecting a real blood and fury messiah to save the nation … Samson was a Nazarite…not the perambulating hippy that Jesus is purported to be.

For example:

"For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines." – Judges 13.5.

Matthew slyly substitutes one word for another.
By replacing Nazarite ('he who vows to grow long hair and serve god') with a term (Nazarene) which appears to imply 'resident of' he is able to fabricate a hometown link for Jesus.

Ok not really a big deal , some scribe gets into a muddle trying to make up a prophesy to make his tale more palatable to the mainly Jewish audience he was expecting to be addressing. The very early Christians were initially mainly Jewish converts.

But then there is this …

The City of Nazareth looms large in the story of Jesus and his family. And yet what do we really know of this holy City.
Well, it is apparently big enough to have its own synagogue, for Jesus to preach in. And it is on or near a precipice. So it should be a fairly simple process to locate this metropolitan hub of first century Galilee.

Surely either a Greek or Roman geographer can help us with this?

But, No, not a word .No Roman or Greek speaks of this 1st century city.
Well what of Jewish writers.

Josephus In his histories, Josephus has a lot to say about Galilee (only 900 square miles in area).
During the first Jewish war, in the 60s AD, Josephus led a military campaign back and forth across the tiny province.
Josephus mentions 45 cities and villages of Galilee – yet Nazareth … not at all.

So , it appears the only reference to this elusive city is in the Bible , thus let us now examine what the “Good Book” has to say…

Well there are the obvious references in the 4 Gospels.

But looking further we start to notice strange omissions.

The Old Testament ,in its entirety, has not one mention of Nazareth.
Further, the Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list.

Curious … perhaps if we go the source for the Old Testament we may do better …

Lets look to the Talmud.

The Talmud, despite naming 63 Galilean towns, says absolutely nothing about Nazareth, neither does early rabbinic literature.

Perhaps Nazareth is only significant to the new cult of Christianity ?

But no .

No lesser person than Saint Paul himself , prolific letter writer and enforcer to the early church.
In all his attributed works he refers to Jesus more than 220 times but Nazareth ?

Not once.

Ah well ,when all else fails we can always rely on science.
The archaeologists must surely be able to nail down this elusive city.

Nope .

Despite all archaeological efforts over a period of nearly 60 years there is NO evidence of any sort for a city ,town ,hamlet or village at Nazareth during the 1st century.

What evidence there is all dates to after the Bar Kochba revolt of AD 135 when Nazareth was finally re-settled after being deserted for approximately 700 years following the Assyrian invasion of 738 BCE.

So a (so far) non existent town , fits with a non existent prophesy.
(and please don’t pull the “Nazareth House 2009” card its already been debunked)

Sources…
http://jesusneverexisted.com/
or
http://www.nazarethmyth.info/naz3article.html

Just in case you have a problem with prophesies being falsified …

Virgin Birth.

“Matthew” maintains that 'Isaiah' had prophesied that Jesus would be born of a virgin:"Behold, a virgin will be with child, and will bring forth a son, and they will call his name Emmanuel," – Matthew 1.23.

Matthew's source is the Septuagint (Isaiah 7.14). But the Greek-speaking translators of this version of Hebrew scripture (prepared in 3rd century BC Alexandria) had slipped up and had translated 'almah' (young woman) into the Greek 'parthenos' (virgin).

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et1007.htm

Honestly translated, the verse reads:
'Behold, the young woman has conceived — and bears a son and calls his name Immanuel.'

Not quite as impressive as a virgin is it…?

But it is verifiable … check this link for the Hebrew version … http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15938

The slip did not matter at the time, for in context, Isaiah’s prophecy (set in the 8th century BC but probably written in the 5th century BC) had been given as reassurance to King Ahaz of Judah that his royal line would survive, despite the ongoing siege of Jerusalem by the Syrians.

And it did.

In other words, the prophecy had nothing to do with events in Judaea eight hundred years into the future!
Yet upon this doctored verse from Isaiah the deceitful scribe who wrote Matthew was to concoct the infamous prophecy that somehow the ancient Jewish text had presaged the miraculous birth of Jesus.

Born in Bethlehem.

The 8th century BC Jewish sage 'Micah' writes about Assyrian invaders and a series of skirmishes in Samaria. He predicts (quite incorrectly as it turns out) that a ruler will arise from David's Bethlehem and conquer Assyria.

What does Micah actually say? The Massoretic (Hebrew) text of Micah 5.2, translated, says:
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah who is little among the clans of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be a ruler in Israel.”
'Bethlehem Ephrathah' here refers to the clan who are descendants from a man called Bethlehem, the son of Caleb's second wife Ephrathah referred to in 1 Chronicles –

it does not refer to a town at all!

Undeterred, Matthew subtly alters the quoted text in his own story (2.6):
“And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means the most insignificant of Judah, for out of you will come forth a ruler in Israel.”

What Matthew has done is change the reference to a clan to a reference to a city – but who would notice!

So..to summarize ....

Nazarene prophesy ..... busted.
City of Nazareth ....... busted.
Vigin Birth ......... busted.
Betlehem ......... busted.
I'll pause for comments here ......

AccretedMinutiae's picture
@watchman - Your post is

@watchman - Your post is great, and relays a lot of useful information, however there is one part I stumbled over:

"What evidence there is all dates to after the Bar Kochba revolt of AD 135 when Nazareth was finally re-settled after being deserted for approximately 700 years following the Assyrian invasion of 738 BCE."

Is this stating that the city you say didn't exist, actually did exist, but only prior to 738 BCE, whereupon it was deserted, and only resettled AFTER the first century? In other words - does this mean that a city named "Nazareth" only "didn't exist" during the first century, but did exist before and afterward? And if the city is known (via the evidence you cited above) to have existed, then why do you say that archaeologists couldn't/can't find it? Does not have actual presence, and perhaps only has literary/documented presence and evidence from the time prior to 738 BCE?

watchman's picture
@AM …..

@AM …..

You must appreciate I haven't looked in detail at this stuff for some years ... BUT ...my understanding is that there was found some archaeological evidence for a small agrarian village /town It cannot have been a larger conurbation as the area only provides one well, that ceased to exist at 738BC …. then nothing until the post Bar Kochba finds...…. with the exceptions of one or two rock cut tombs mainly from the period of the Greeks under Alexander …. (these tombs also mitigate against any Jewish settlement here as there was a prohibition against having tombs within a Jewish settlement.)

Then there was the "Jesus House" apparently one of two finds of supposed dwellings..... I provide a link to an article regarding this "find"...….https://www.livescience.com/49997-jesus-house-possibly-found-nazareth.html

Make of it what you will but note who does the digging ,Nuns ,Jesuits and even Ken Dark the Archaeologist. says

""Was this the house where Jesus grew up? It is impossible to say on archaeological grounds," Dark wrote in an article published in the magazine Biblical Archaeology Review. "On the other hand, there is no good archaeological reason why such an identification should be discounted."

You should also note what happened to a similar find in Capernaum....."The House of Peter: The Home of Jesus in Capernaum?"

link :https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/biblical...

This article contains this disclaimer.."Biblical archaeology discoveries are not cut-and-dry cases. Though there is no definitive proof in this instance that the house ruin uncovered by the excavators actually is the ancient house of Peter,"

I'll go back and see if I can get an update on Ken Darks findings.

EDIT ...Appologies just looked up my notes and realised I'd completely forgotten to mention this site dedicated to the Nazareth question...…
http://www.nazarethmyth.info/

link added.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Italianish - I think that an

Italianish - I think that an infallible and inerrant book should be perfect, front to back.. from the first to last page..

I couldn't agree more.
-----------------------------

Italianish - If You or anyone else can find out what other obvious contradictions there are please let me know..

Well I'm normally not a fan of getting information from Youtube, but someone has compiled some of the material you are asking for in a rather funny format: NonStampCollector's Quiz Show (Bible Contradictions)

edited: typos

Italianish's picture
I do appreciate the feed back

I do appreciate the feed back,
And I can understand from an atheist perspective on the matter.. lately
I’ve been shifting.. from believer to non- believer to believer in something else to
Back
To the Bible out
Of fear and environmental experience..
I’ve been in my own boat here.
This looks like gold to me.. I’ve done much reading over the passed month.. yet I couldn’t get it down.
I am grateful for the time and effort You all put
Into helping Me, You’re all so kind.
Thank You.

Whitefire13's picture
Couldn’t help myself...one

Couldn’t help myself...one step further on the 10 Commandments.

Imagine you’re an Israelite. Moses is up in the mountain. You and your friends are bored, so you engage in a big party. Moses comes down, sees the shenanigans going on and, oops - drops the tablets which smash. Now, maybe a few partygoers up front saw the original, but I doubt they memorized them on the quick glance before their destruction.
Moses trots back up and comes down again with God’s Written Word, soooo sacred it’s carried around in the Ark. No mention of stealing or killing.
As an Israelite I’d have no problem killing my neighbours and stealing their stuff as long as my baby goat wasn’t boiled in its mother’s milk.

Italianish's picture
Now when the ark was

Now when the ark was mentioned by everyone who mentioned it in this thread
It means the ark of the convenant not Noah’s ark correct?

Agnostic Atheist 101's picture
@italianish

@italianish

do you want proof that god does not exist? or proof that god does?
in my opinion, it is easier to disprove than to prove. I have always been an Atheist Agnostic.
Out of interest, what made you think Christianity is real before you saw the flaws in it?

Whitefire13's picture
Yes...Ark of the Covenant

Yes...Ark of the Covenant

Italianish's picture
Agnostic Atheist 101

Agnostic Atheist 101

Simply, I want the truth and I don’t want to be lied to by a book or people claiming that it’s ultimate truth.
After watching
The video posted here it cleared up a lot.
Also I barely even believed at first, one day I came across some ones “testimony” that they went to hell for 21-23 minutes and explained
It’s horrors.. that’s what I believed first.. it took me like a
Week or
More to even develop authentic faith in Jesus.. and what a time
It was, worrying and fretting over a false existence.. funny too.. cuz I went through “hell” for years as a believer.

chimp3's picture
@Italianish: The Bible is

@Italianish: The Bible is full of contradictions because it is the product of human imagination. If you don't agree then perhaps you could try and convince me that it is the infallible "Word of God".

Agnostic Atheist 101's picture
The point of this thread is

The point of this thread is to help him convince himself that Christianity is false, not to convince you.

chimp3's picture
I doubt it!

I doubt it!

Agnostic Atheist 101's picture
what do you mean by 'i doubt

what do you mean by 'i doubt it'?
you don't think he is going to become atheist?

chimp3's picture
@Agnostic Atheist 101: I have

@Agnostic Atheist 101: I have been too harsh! Sorry, Italianish! My original intention was for him to argue the validity of the Bible and see for himself the contadictions.

Agnostic Atheist 101's picture
Italianish

Italianish

i hope these questions and facts will help you see that Christianity is not the truth.

God in the bible created a utopia in the beginning, but why would god let us eat plants if it hurts the plants which is also a living organism.?

Why in the beginning did god create tigers,lions, sharks, etc. with such sharp teeth for meat in the beginning when everybody ate plants?

How do you know this 'holy' book is written in the word of god?

The bible was mostly written by Jewish people, which explains why the Jewish where gods 'chosen one'.

God is all powerful, therefore he can see into the future, but why create a utopia that will become a world of evil?

Again, God is all powerful, then why create the devil, evil, and hell?

How did the world population go from Noah's family in 2304 to around 30 million in 200 years? That's around 3 generations in current terms and less than one third generation according to the lifespan of people at that time (900 years maximum)

Furthering the Noah's ark topic, how did the Egypt and Minoan civilizations survive the flood intact with no people in there communities?

Bright Raven's picture
@Italianish

@Italianish

Welcome. I hope you find something to navigate by in this thread.

There are contradictions in the Bible. You can google the subject. The contradictions have been identified.

The first atheist I met was a local uneducated gunsmith when I was 10 years old. I took a rifle to him to repair. He became a mentor. I learned shooting skills from him. But more, despite no formal education, he was a reader of books and a country philosopher. I remember asking him if he went to Church. He said no. He just said none of it makes enough sense to waste your time on.

There is a simple truth in that. The style of the Bible reveals that. It is a loosely written collection of man's cultural beliefs from ancient times. The style suggests a compilation of colloquial values that the ancients believed we should live by.

The Bible tells the story of a God that has the capacity to create a Universe. Imagine those powers and then dumb them down with human traits like jealousy, gender, violence, injustice, etc.etc. The fundamental purpose is a God that wants us to love and serve him. The Bible says we have a soul and promises if we follow in the footsteps of Jesus, someday we will be judged and if the judgement is favorable, our soul is rewarded with immortality. It doesn't say what purpose that serves. At the end of the day, as my Gunsmith friend summed it up, it just don't make sense.

I don't think this helps you much in your quest for "truth". All it does is share with you my simple story of the path I followed. I wish you a successful journey. Take care and be safe.

Italianish's picture
When I started questioning my

When I started questioning my beliefs I got some
Of the most absurd answers..
One of my questions went something like
So God(Love spiritually embodied)
Created a world. With two perfect humans without sin.. and had the rebellious satan cast down on earth(all while God knew exactly what was gonna happen ) the devil got them cursed as well as all descendants.. people who died without salvation died forever in hell... when did he ever love us so?
You would probably hate the answer I got
When asking a question like this to a pastor.
I know I did..
it came down later that Gods glory is more important than his children in his son Jesus.. that pissed me off..
an invisible aspect in life that can’t hear feel or speak or
Think(glory) is more important than me.
While everything he did was for glory..
created people knowing they would die forever.
Even as a
Christian I felt sometimes that he made those people for his children their growth etc..
and I’m
Like.. “wasn’t even worth it, I would have rather you not created them if they would die for ever” I don’t care if that was for my betterment
It doesn’t look like love to me..
I also became a self loathing self imposed martyr for the glory of God all because glory sake and that I had a “purpose” in Gods plan..
and thank you again everyone the purpose of me being here is finding intelligent atheists who can help me rationalize why God doesn’t exist.. my mind has been conditioned too far and it was hard for me to grasp that in spite of the evidence I wasn’t able to understand that it’s truth that Bible isn’t true.
I developed a sense of ocd during my biblical believing times because of the Bible among other things, and even if I read and hbderstand these things my mind won’t let me accept it..
I can use a true example of my ocd to help u understand..
That when I go to lock my door.. it’s locked and I know it’s locked but my mind is saying it’s not locked and I go back and forth multiple times at night to unlock it to lock it again and try to convince myself it’s locked.
With beliefs and contradictions I read and understand the truth hence the door is locked, then later on in the day no one unlocked the door yet my mind thinks it’s still unlocked then I have to re read.. Christians say that being a believer means a life of persecution and issue and it
Isn’t easy..
they didn’t say I would lose myself and gain illnesses that I didn’t have before cuz of it.

Bright Raven's picture
@Italianish

@Italianish

Humans can contemplate their existence. Our minds see everything in our world as having "purpose". We buy a hammer for the purpose of driving nails. We buy a car for the purpose of transportation. Almost everything is a function of existing for a purpose. But there is no purpose and the Universe has no conscience. We live until we die. Sometimes I look at my cows and dogs and wonder if they are fortunate not to contemplate their existence. They enjoy eating and enjoy sleeping in the warm sun. Unlike us, they don't care if they have purpose.

Italianish's picture
If that’s the case or not.. I

If that’s the case or not.. I don’t want to waste any time.
I lost a lot of my life and time due to being a Christian.

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