christian student with questions

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chimp3's picture
My parents are Pentecostal,

My parents are Pentecostal, Dad is a pastor. Brothers are Baptist/ Pentecostal. I get along well with them. I work with a bunch of Holy Rollers in healthcare. In my day to day life, I am the only atheist I meet. I am not very gregarious anyway. I spend time with family a lot. We binge watch TV shows and post during commercials. I do this and they probably post Jesus memes. On the weekend I do the cooking. No dysfunctional schisms in my home.

isobel's picture
lol jesus memes

lol jesus memes
sounds like u have a healthy relationship with ur family. that seems to be uncommon these days
way to go!

LogicFTW's picture
@isobel

@isobel

"have u had good or bad experiences with Christians in general?"

Is this another interview question directed at everyone?

If so, here is my response, if not, simply disregard.

.

In general for me, actual in person contact, with christians have been mostly good experiences. As I would expect from anyone. Has my life or others I care about been negatively impacted by christians? Absolutely.

Dave Matson's picture
isobel,

isobel,

Is this your 3rd question?

On a personal level my experiences with Christians has been rather good. Even the lady at the office, who got rather critical when she found out that I supported atheism, became friendly once we got to know each other better. Turned out her husband had ditched Christianity in favor of Islam! So, she was confused and hurting, and ready to strike a blow for her faith. By and by I loaned her some of my nicest nature photos to brighten up her office.

On a less personal level, I am acutely aware of how conservative religious groups try to undermine the teaching of good science (evolution for instance, but geology, astronomy and physics could be mentioned as well). I am aware of how easily they infiltrate the political system to gain special governmental privileges at the expense of everyone else. Until modern times, atheists in the U.S. were routinely excluded from juries and were even denied the right to run for office! In some states even sending well written atheist literature through the U.S. Postal service could get you convicted on a porno charge! The great Ingersoll defended one such person in the courtroom.

The original efforts to curtail religious influence in the U.S. was not by atheists, but by other sects of Christianity that were being squeezed! Government is supposed to be totally neutral on the religious front! If it favors one group then all others are necessarily demoted. It's like an old-fashioned teeter-totter. When one end is up, the other is down. Needless to say, such activities generate a lot of negative feelings for me, especially since this whole religious business has historically enjoyed special privileges at all levels of government, many of which continue to this day.

Such privileges, of course, go far beyond the governmental levels. Even today there is scarcely a newspaper that will allow an atheist a free hand in criticizing religion. In the better papers an atheist can get a letter published now and then, but if he expects to have an opportunity to seriously examine the flaws of religion he will be sorely disappointed! Then there are the ocean of lies that have been applied to atheists, so toxic that even now "atheist" is a bad word for many. An atheist's morality, especially in more backward areas, is always questioned.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: My answer to Isobel's

Re: My answer to Isobel's second PM interview question: "have u had good or bad experiences with Christians in general?"

Hello again, Miss Isobel. My apologies for the delay. Been a busy day and I am just getting settled in for the evening. So, on to your next question, shall we?

Tsk-tsk, young lady. Like Old Man and a few others on here, I do my best to avoid "loaded questions" when I detect them. If I allowed myself to get sucked into one, I do believe I would lose my self-respect. I will spare you the explanation, though, as I do believe Ms. Cyber covered that quite nicely in the open forum earlier. However, in the interest of continuing your education, I do not mind sharing my personal views on such matters.

My assessments of people are based strictly on an individual basis according to how the individual interacts with me and others depending on the situation, relationship (to me and/or others), and any other extenuating circumstances. Other than family and close friends, most often I never even know the religious beliefs of a majority of people I ever encounter. Moreover, I never bother to ask, because - quite frankly - I do not really care. None of my business what they believe, just as it is none of their business what I believe (or disbelieve, as the case may be). In that same respect, I do not care what color the person's skin is. I do not care what gender the person may be. I do not care about his/her sexual orientation/preference. To put it simply and bluntly, a person is either an asshole or they are not, regardless of any of these other factors. (My own personal opinion.) Oh, and just because a person may be an asshole at a particular time due to circumstances, it does not necessarily mean that individual is always such. For instance, there are many folks who know me or who have encountered me who believe I am an okay dude. Then again, I can probably think of quite a few more who would swear I am the biggest son-of-a-bitch on the planet. And here's the fun part: The thoughts and opinions of all of them could be considered true an accurate. And I can assure you, my lack of faith and/or religious beliefs has absolutely nothing to do with it.

isobel's picture
have u ever discussed ur

have u ever discussed ur beliefs with a Christian in detail?

CyberLN's picture
Which beliefs?

Which beliefs?

isobel's picture
specifically ur beliefs that

specifically ur beliefs that counter those of Christians.

CyberLN's picture
I have no beliefs that

I have no beliefs that counter xtian beliefs.

isobel's picture
so u dont belive there is no

so u dont belive there is no god? because that is a belief that counters Christian beliefs.

CyberLN's picture
You don’t understand how

You don’t understand how atheism is typically defined, do you?

I do not believe theists’ assertions of the existence of their gods. This DOES NOT mean the same thing as saying there are no gods. These are two very different things.

isobel's picture
thats agnosticism

thats agnosticism

CyberLN's picture
Nope.

Nope.

I identify as an agnostic atheist. I do not believe in any gods and have no knowledge about whether any exist.

A/Gnosticism is about knowledge. A/theism is about belief.

Sheldon's picture
CyberLN You don’t understand

CyberLN You don’t understand how atheism is typically defined, do you?

I do not believe theists’ assertions of the existence of their gods. This DOES NOT mean the same thing as saying there are no gods. These are two very different things.
-------------------------------------------

Isobel "thats agnosticism"

No it isn't, why don't theists use dictionaries?

David Killens's picture
@ isobel

@ isobel

"so u dont belive there is no god?"

That statement is a double negative. So if you remove the words that cancel each other out, you arrive at "so u belive there is a god?"

Your thinking is confused and sloppy, as bad as your grammar. Which leads me to ponder the entrance requirements for this course.

Sky Pilot's picture
isobel,

isobel,

"so u dont belive there is no god?"

The word "god" is just a generic title for a deity. All known deities have their own specific name so you should use the specific name when referring to your particular delusion = http://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html

So the appropriate question would include the particular deity's name instead of the word "god", which is like asking "so u dont belive there is no cook?"

Do you believe in these gods?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/176/364/346.jpg

http://norse-mythology.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/odin-chief-of-the-...

http://www.chinawhisper.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Guanyin.jpg

http://rickriordan.com/content/uploads/2016/04/set.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/b1/3a/ceb13a6862bee91c7301e5c3e179df73--yor...

So use the deity's name and not the generic title "god".

isobel's picture
i'm talking about deities in

i'm talking about deities in general, not a specific one

chimp3's picture
All the time on line!

All the time on line!

LogicFTW's picture
@isobel

@isobel
"have u ever discussed ur beliefs with a Christian in detail?"
Online yes, never in person though. I tend to avoid doing so in person. If a christian came up to me and wanted to discuss religion, I would open with "be happy to discuss god/religion, but you need to tell me if something bothers you or you are getting upset. And if I feel you are getting upset, I am going to end the conversation."

Sushisnake's picture
@Isobel

@Isobel

 " have u had good or bad experiences with Christians in general?"

Ah, Isobel. If only you knew how often Christians ask us that waiting to hear confirmation that we've had absolutely awful experiences with Christians in general and Christian churches in particular, and turned our faces from god in anger because of it. The misconception- the ad hom- is older than I am, and I'm no spring chicken.

Even though I totally agree with what Cyber and David said about the danger and basic uselessness of pigeonholing people, I'll answer your question. My entire family are Christians. My atheism and their theism is not a source of conflict between us. Their faith is a gentle, loving, inclusive thing. I've spoken to Christians on-line who've shared truly beautiful visions of their god with me. In general, my experiences with Christians have been positive. Some of my staunchest allies in the fight to keep church and state separate are progressive Christians, including my family. You should have heard my 70 something Catholic mother go off about the attempted interference of the Catholic church in the same sex marriage plebiscite we had in Australia last year.

" have u ever discussed ur beliefs with a Christian in detail?"

Yep. I've discussed my unbeliefs and Christian beliefs with Christians lots of times. You're a diverse bunch. A very broad church indeed.

isobel's picture
i honestly did not ask this

i honestly did not ask this expecting negative answers. i have known plenty of atheists and theyve all had decent experiences with Christians. for the amount of times people have said that i ask "assuming" questions, there has been a lot of assumptions about me lol.

Sushisnake's picture
@Isobel

@Isobel

Re: "i honestly did not ask this expecting negative answers."

I didn't say you did, nor did I think you did. That's why I said:

Ah, Isobel. If only you knew how often Christians ask us that waiting to hear confirmation that we've had absolutely awful experiences with Christians in general and Christian churches in particular, and turned our faces from god in anger because of it."

Seriously, google "angry atheist" and you'll get page after page after page of Christians telling you atheists are angry people who hate God and just want to sin etc. You'd be amazed at how many conversations Christians have opened with me by asking me why I'm angry with God, what terrible thing happened in my life that I blame God for, or do I just want to sin?

YOU weren't asking a loaded question, but Christians in general loaded the question before you ever thought to ask it. Actually, monotheists in general loaded the question- Muslims and Jews often take the angry atheist stereotype as their starting point, too. It's understandable, in my opinion. It's hard for the devout to get their heads around the fact that atheists simply don’t believe in God, so they look for an explanation they can accept- angry atheist fits the bill.

isobel's picture
i apologize for others of my

i apologize for others of my religion asking assuming and aggressive questions. just know im not here to do that.

Dave Matson's picture
Normally I don't personally

Normally I don't personally talk religion. But I have corresponded extensively with some Christians in the days before email was commonplace, and for about 3 weeks or so I was part of an atheist panel that fielded numerous questions from Christians on the Internet. They must have asked every conceivable thing and offered every conceivable challenge that a Christian could think up! (The Christians got to grade our performance, by the way!) I have studied a number of apologetic books. I have Gleason Archer's "Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties" and Norman Geisler & Thomas Howe's "When Critics Ask" in my library. So, I understand where these people are coming from.

From time to time, though, I have had face-to-face encounters. Once, after a public debate which I attended, as people were leaving, I had an informal go-round with a knowledgeable believer. On another occasion I was having lunch by myself at a mall when these two Scandinavian ladies asked my permission to sit at my table. Soon, they were pitching religion at me! I suspect that they were taken aback when they realized that I had answers to all of their "gotcha" questions, but it was a low pressure, friendly talk, even a positive experience. We finally parted and each side suggested a good book to read. On still other occasions I've had the usual twosome come a knocking at my door. On a couple of occasions, instead of sending them on their way, I cut them down to their roots in a friendly discussion. One pair said they would look up the answers and get back to me. Of course, I never saw them again!

Tin-Man's picture
Re: My third PM interview

Re: My third PM interview question from Isobel:

"have u ever discussed ur beliefs with a Christian in detail?"

Hey there, Isobel. Good to see you back. Easy question, too.

I've actually discussed atheism with Christians (and various other theists) many times on this site. After all, that IS why I am here. Have been discussing it with you over the past few days, as a matter of fact.

In my day-to-day life outside this site, however, there is rarely an occasion or need for me to discuss it with others. As I have said before, it is really none of my business what another person believes as long as their belief does not infringe upon my life/rights. Therefore, in that same respect, it is none of their business what I believe. Not that I mind having interesting conversations. I always enjoy a good exchange of intellectual ideas. But unless somebody approaches me and specifically asks me about my beliefs, then I am certainly not going to do the same to another.

Cognostic's picture
isobel: "what? he doesnt

isobel: "what? he doesnt trick people into not doing what he asks."

Oh how wrong you are...
King James 2000
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. (Luke 8:10)

What in the hell is wrong with your god that he plays favorites?

Matthew 13:13
"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

Your God is an ass!

God intentionally "TRICKS" skeptics and non-believers by talking in vague, unintelligible gobbledygook that only the 30,000 different Christian sects with their 30,000 interpretations of the bible, AND OF GOD, can comprehend.

Either God is a complete moron or he is using tricks so all you Christians don't get the same message. How Godly is this God anyway?

Nyarlathotep's picture
isobel - The Civil Laws, for

isobel - The Civil Laws, for instance, were set up...

isobel - The Ceremonial Laws illustrate for us God’s...

isobel - The Moral Laws are fulfilled in Jesus as ...

Isobel, almost that entire post of yours, is plagiarized from J.D. Greear. If you learn nothing else from your adventures here, learn this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plagiarism will end a promising career as quick as a bullet. If this was a university, you would be expelled right now.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DON'T DO IT.

David Killens's picture
Yea, with the atrocious

Yea, with the atrocious grammar and plagiarizing, I do wonder if isobel will graduate. I would certainly give a fail.

isobel's picture
why would i care about

why would i care about grammar on here? i actually was on of the best in my writing and grammar classes basically my whole life, and i apologized for the plagiarism. ive never done it before. i guess i got lazy in this informal setting. (which is no excuse, ik)

Tin-Man's picture
@Isobel Re: "why would i

@Isobel Re: "why would i care about grammar on here?"

Glad you asked, young lady. While I am in no way any sort of English/Grammar Scholar, I do happen to take a great deal of pride in how I present myself in my writings. As this is an autonomous site of sorts, one of the very few ways we have of determining an individual's character, intelligence, and credibility is most often by how he/she expresses their thoughts in writing. Personally, I enjoy manipulating the English language in my writings to accurately convey to the reader my emotions and intent as accurately as possible. That is just the nerdy side of me that likes to have fun. More importantly, however, should I have an important point to make or a delicate topic to discuss, I believe the more articulate and grammatically correct my writing is, then the more likely the reader will take serious notice of my views/opinions. You say you are one of the best in your writing classes, right? Then allow that to show on here. Never cheat yourself or allow yourself to get lazy when trying to convey important information to others. You are doing yourself an injustice by doing so. Just an observation.

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