On a recent thread, a christian claimed that god exists because we have "free will" and that all the "evil" is our choice.
Well, are birth defects free will?
Are deaths due to tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, fire, flood, and other disasters free will?
Are diseases a product of choice and free will?
Fuck NO! This is just another apology by christian apologist!
And another thing, my guess that christians oppose abortion so much is that it proves humans are superior to their fucking god. If birth is a miracle from a god and a human decides to not allow it to happen then god is inferior!
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"Free Will"..... What a crock of shit. That excuse (the way they try to explain it) is so illogical it makes the brain hurt trying to make sense of how it is suppose to work. Even beyond that, though, I just really wish these apologists/theists would make up their minds as to who exactly is responsible for all the "evil" in the world. First, it is GOD who created evil (as a means to show us how much he loves us, oddly enough). But then, NO! It is the Devil's fault when evil and bad things happen to Man. Oh, but wait! No, no, no..... Not the Devil or God! It is MAN himself who has evil in his heart and does all of his bad things against God and his fellow Man. Oh, HERE'S a good one: "God loves us so much he allows the Devil to do whatever horrible things he wants to Man so that Man will love and appreciate God even more." Mmph!... *gag*... Excuse me for that. Just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
and what about rape victims? how about their free will?then if the rapist prayed sincerely and be saved and go to heaven..where's the justice for the victim? isn't it odd that they'll meet up in heaven?hahahah... and right mykcob, don't you think those who died in natural calamities prayed for salvation?those who died of disease cancer, and lived with down syndrome, polio and PWD ...etc..
i think its really our free will.. don't you think?
and just a question, do you think people will still have their past memories?like, will they still be skeptic heaven? can u ask something to god? can we ask him if which god is he? it goes on and on
Well of course not, God is head and shoulders over humanity. He is superior that's why theodicy says that he is sovereign over all things. Just because a person has free will to have an abortion doesn`t show any kind of inferior on GOD`S part but in fact it shows the weaknesses on the person part for carrying out a sin. God has forgiven countless murderers rather it be through abortion or any kind of crime. God is patient and long suffering towards humanity, hoping all would come to repentance .It`s still not to late for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to your bible your deity tortured a new born baby to death over 7 days, just because it was conceived in an adulterous affair. That's not superior morality, that's psychotic sadistic monster. As for countless murders what about the biblical claim for a global genocidal flood your deity is claimed to have used to murder everyone and everything? Nothing moral about the deity of the bible, and if it existed I'd want no part of it. luckily it's a complete fiction.
@FIG
What a crock! People can abort a baby and your god can't do a thing about it! What a weak piece of shit!
Well God if he wanted to,being the most powerful could intervene but God doesn`t act that way; he allows the abortion to take place, but that doesn`t mean he doesn`t have a plan for that particular life. God is kind and compassionate not weak and I think he has proven that in both the old and new testaments. Whenever he feels being all knowing takes the right action allowing for free will to come to fruition REMEMBER GOD intervened in the past. Remember the story of Abraham And his son Isaac the way he intervened there He speared Isaac at the last second Believe me we don`t know what where saying when we hope for GODS intervention Like the axiom says "you better be careful of what you wish for because you just may get it" and it may be nothing that you expected. So let us not judge GOD by his inaction according to the claims you made above. but have faith and patience to do what overall is the best thing.
The story of Abraham and Isaac shows that god values would-be murderers. You mention that god intervene to spare Isaac, but fail to point out that it was god who caused the moral dilemma in the first place. Or rather, a "voice" that Abraham heard.
@FIG Re: "....the way he intervened there He speared Isaac at the last second..."
Welllll.... Ooooooo-kaaaaaay..... Funny, but I could have sworn that story went another way. But, hey, you're the "expert". Soooo... *shoulder shrug*
"Well God if he wanted to,being the most powerful could intervene but God doesn`t act "
If that were true then it's be a deity that was either indifferent to suffering or who enjoyed letting it happen. Either way and by any human standards of morality it'd be a sadistic psychotic monster that defined the word evil.
A deity Christians claim takes the time to place his likeness on a pizza or in a taco or sliced tomato, but can't be bothered to intervene to stop a child being raped and murdered.
It's a complete fiction of course, as are all deities, but if it's not then it and you can fuck right off.
@Fig
You do know your god is the world's greatest abortionist, right? In general, less than 70% of all fertilized eggs will even implant into the mother's womb causing pregnancy to continue. From there, there is a 25-50% chance of aborting before you even know you are pregnant.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Spontaneous_abortion_in_humans
So yeah. Your god intervenes A LOT. As an abortionist.
@Faith in God...God is head and shoulders over humanity
LOL! God is a dandruff cure. I knew it was useful for something.
"He is superior that's why theodicy says that he is sovereign over all things."
noun
the vindication of divine providence in view of the existence of evil.
So let's your argument then, not just your robot like bald assertions.
"God is head and shoulders over humanity. He is superior that's why theodicy says that he is sovereign over all things."
Which to any objective sane person would mean he is culpable for all things, including evil and suffering. That's what theodicy tries and so far fails to rationalise.
Advances in neurosciences show that there is determined function taking place before we realise or it manifests.
If free will dies, science dies along with it.
Hmmm....
In that case, I'm gonna use my free will to continuously choose not to participate in using free will. (Ouch. I think I just sprain a brain muscle.)
Makes one wonder which is worse: Thinking you have free will when you don't; or pretending not to have it, when you do.
John 6IX Wheezy,
How can a person have free will to believe in zombie Yeshua when zombie Yeshua won't allow the person to believe in him? That's what the fairy tale says.
Ask a theologian.
Why do you suggest he ask a theologian?
For the same reason I'm told to go ask a biologist my questions.
Excellent. I was checking to see if you would make that leap.
Now that it seems established that you want specialists to respond to specialized subject matter, and that a/theism is specialized subject matter, why are you still here? What subjects are you qualified to discuss?
I think you missed the point where I'm mocking that sentiment.
If that is indeed the case, John, then you have purposefully decided to avoid answering a legitimate question by mocking someone. Hmmm.... Now I get it! After all, as you’ve said, you’re not here to debate.
I agree that my response was purposeful and his question legitimate: it doesn't fall into the Straw God Fallacy. I do think the forum knows I'm not currently interested in theological conversations, and I do think Diotrephes is often more rhetorical than inquisitive, but I guess that doesn't matter.
What matters is that you're correct that I'm not here for debates, and nobody accuses somebody of "avoiding to answer" unless they have a debate mindset.
" I'm not here for debates,"
You're in the debate forum you clown.
Nurse, nurse, we need some aloe vera here stat, someone just got burned..
Biology is a real scientific discipline, so the appeal to authority is valid.
Theology is hokum superstition, so the appeal to authority is fallacious.
Nice assertion, Hitchens's razor - slash. In the bin of unevidenced theistic bilge it goes.
We can test this assertion easily. If someone was about to rape a child, would a theist
1) Do everything they could to prevent it?
2) Do nothing at all because it would be wrong to interfere with the free will of the rapist?
Also why did this deity flood the entire planet during one of his many tantrums that his creation were exercising their free will in a way he was unhappy about?
It's all complete nonsense, simple as that.
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