I know there are probably multiple discussions already open on this topic but I wanted to open up several question and was not sure how else to title this subject.
How would you explain why there is "evil" in the world and how can we combat against it?
How would you say you view the world?
Why are you an atheist?
I am aware these are big questions but would appreciate being able to openly discuss this.
Thank you in advance.
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@Googs: How would you explain why there is "evil" in the world and how can we combat against it?
Well frankly that's a very silly question. You seem to think that there is some force or entity in the world that we can point to as being evil. That's naive. We live in a dynamic environment on a seismically active planet. Earthquakes, eruptions, typhoons happen and people die. It's not evil. It's just the way things are.
People do terrible things. Sometimes they are misguided, sometimes sick in the head. Again that's not evil. It's tragic, but it's just the way things are. All we can do is try to find cures for congenital brain defects and damage caused by bad childhoods.
As a Christian you should ponder the words of the late Steven Weinberg, a physicist and Nobel Laureate.
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Yes. Religion is the only source of true evil, which I'd define as sane people knowingly doing things that harm others.
@ How would you explain why there is "evil" in the world and how can we combat against it?
There is no "THING' called evil in this world. There are people who do things that we consider to be evil. When people murder, rape, steal, or do other things that might be considered to be evil, we come together as a culture and make laws. We hire people to enforce those laws. We take the people who engage in activities that we consider to be evil and try to help them, lock them away, or kill them. EVIL is not a thing and it can not be resolved or dealt with. People who engage in acts that we think are evil can be dealt with.
@ How would you say you view the world?
With my eyes and my brain. My basic philosophy of live is that people are whole and complete and capable of making the best decision they can in any given situation. (That means that if a person murders another person, the person who did the murdering actually believed it was the best decision possible in the situation they found themselves to be in.) People do things for perfectly good reasons whether or not those things are harmful to the self or others. It may not make sense to you, and it does not have to, it makes perfect sense to them.
@ Why are you an atheist?
I am an atheist because that is the name the religious of the world have tagged me with as a result of not believing in their religious superstition.
There is nothing "BIG" about any of these questions. They aren't even very significant. I doubt you will find anyone on the site having much of a problem with them.
@OP
(Gonna give my answers before reading the posts of others.)
Uh, for starters, you have this thread double-posted. I strongly suggest cancelling/deleting one of them to avoid a great deal of confusion. The mods can help you if you need it.
First and foremost, there is no "atheist world view". Just wanted to get that out of the way real quick.
Now, as far as why there is "evil" in this world, that is something you should already know. According to YOUR bible, YOUR god made it. So it is a bit baffling to me why you are asking that question of a group of atheists. And as for how to combat it...? Well, again, according to your bible and religion, simply praying about it to your god should clear things up nicely. So, how's that working out, by the way?
Still, in giving you the benefit of the doubt, I am going to take your question as meaning, "Why do we (atheists) believe there is evil in the world?" Well, to begin with, the word "evil" carries with it a bit of unnecessary baggage. So, instead, I will answer the question of, "Why do bad things happen in the world?" My short answer is, "Hey, shit happens." To elaborate, however, whether it is a man-made accident due to human error, or a natural cause such as bad weather or an animal attack, sometimes things just go bad/wrong. No way to avoid it. And no god or gods has anything to do with it. People are people. They can be lazy, incompetent, careless, or just plain make honest human error mistakes. Nothing malicious about it, and very little can be done to prevent it. Nature is simply nature. It has no thoughts. It makes no plans. It has no intent. It simply does what it does according to the laws of physics. Practically ZERO can be done about that. And animals are simply animals, especially those in the wild. You confront a hungry mountain lion out in the wild and you are unarmed, chances are you are going to become its next meal. Nothing personal. The animal is simply acting on its natural instinct, and you are very easy prey. So, stay away from wild animals when able, and practice caution around the "tame" ones. Just never forget they are animals, no matter how cute they may sometimes act.
Now, that brings us to the human predators of the world. And along with them I also include many government leaders and higher government officials who rule many parts of our world. To me, these individuals fall into the category of psychopaths, sociopaths, megalomaniacs, and totalitarian extremists who lack any human empathy and whose "moral" values center around doing only those things that benefit them personally. We are talking about the blood-thirsty, greedy, power-hungry, self-centered, narcissistic, psychologically unbalanced folks who view people other than their "peers" as mere objects to be used or destroyed to promote their own agenda and/or gain. Simply put, there are bad people in this world. And, once again, no god or gods has anything to do with it. They are either bad by choice and/or because of how they were raised, or they are bad because of some type of psychological disorder. Either way, they are out there, and unfortunately too many people want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend they are not. What can we do about it? Well, sadly, way to many of those bad people are in such high positions of power that there is practically nothing anybody can do at my particular level. But for those human predators who operate more within my immediate AO (Area of Operations)...? Well, let's just say it is best that they go find easier prey than myself. And if they happen to make the mistake of bothering my family, I will do everything within my power to make sure they never make the same mistake again.
And I am an atheist because that is the term theists currently use to identify me as an individual who does not believe in their particular god(s).
As Tin Man said: "there is no atheist world view" It is a common theme (lie) harped on by the ill educated and those unable to grasp the meaning of "atheist". ie: one who lacks belief in a god or gods.
How would you explain why there is "evil" in the world and how can we combat against it?
Let us define evil properly.
"Evil": profoundly immoral and wicked. Is the first definition. Why is it in this world? Because people do bad things, that as society progresses, the majority find immoral, amoral, unconscionable and wrong. Those actions are then termed "evil". The causes for such behaviour are many, far too many to list here without writing a treatise.
Evil:profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force. i
well, that is hilarious...religion invents "good" then invents its anthesis...and calls it "evil" . I do not believe in the supernatural so this definition of evil is meaningless. For something that does evil (immoral, amoral and cruel) look no further than the god of the OT. The 'god' described there is nothing short of a monstrous doer of evil. ....
How would you say you view the world?
With as much humor and compassion as I can muster depending on the day.
Why are you an atheist?
I think, I question, I do not accept fantastical claims without evidence.
"How would you explain why there is "evil" in the world"
There isn't, evil is a just a word humans created to describe certain types of behaviour. Suffering is a far more objective idea than our subjective perception of evil.
"How would you say you view the world?"
In what sense? I don't believe any deities or anything "supernatural" exists if that's what you're asking. I want to believe only things I can be reasonably sure are true, so I treat all claims in an open minded fashion. Which is to say without bias, and using one standard. That is that sufficient objective evidence be demonstrated for any claim before I believe it. Sufficient would best be described as 'at least' commensurate to the claim.
"Why are you an atheist?"
No objective evidence has been demonstrated to validate the claim. The arguments presented are flawed and insufficient to base belief of such a claim on, and they often are woefully irrational. It is also an objective fact that human beings have created thousands of fictional deities, and these often fall in and out of vogue. Theists perceptions of their deities change constantly, even in ostensibly the same religion, where the subjective opinions I'd adherents vary so wildly they are often irascible to the point of murder over these different interpretations.
I don't believe in notions such as evil, but we live in an universe where it is possible to experience pain.
@OP
I am waiting around to see if this guy comes back and makes responses before I take the time/trouble to type out my response.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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@Logic
Wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you. Looks like another drive-by.
Probably a 'lurker' posts the garbage, then hangs around reading replies without making their presence known. Then, when they realise they are getting rational, intelligent, thoughtful replies, fuck of back to whatever apologetics 101 sanctuary they crawled from.
Religion, and by strapping the nut jobs to a rocket and firing them into the sun.
As anyone else, minus the imaginary friend.
Because the alternative is bollocks
This was a drive by.
Another gormless, spineless, brainless, gutless, thoughtless, witless wanker tosses a supposed theology grenade and then runs away pissing himself with fear.
The theists are in the foxholes. More and more atheists are out in the open advancing toward the enemy.
Laughs! Rolling so much "shit" out of your mouth, won't intimidate your theist enemies. Neither will delusions of winning some spiritual warfare, no one gives a rats arse about. Actually you're just a bunch of expendable cells, ticking away towards inevitable death.. You're just spending your time, trying to convince others that you are somehow better because you "liberated yourself from the yoke of religion".. In the end of the day, that isn't an accomplishment, you're not special, you're not achieving anything, you won't change the world. In the end you will end up rotting in a grave like everyone else that came before you. However theists have something to hope for, looking beyond the grave to the afterlife. Death is their second birthday.. While you have nothing to look forward to, but a hole in the ground.. Sad part is, if theists are right.. your afterlife doesn't look brighter than that hole you will end up in. Sad..
@UneducatedAtheists if theists are right..
So you have doubts, then? That could be enough to get you damned. You'd better hope that atheists are right, because if we're not you could go straight to hell for the sin of pride among other things. I've heard there's a special circle of hell for Christian trolls.
Doubts about what? I don't doubt anything. I am reminding you of the inevitable, and obvious. That your life's view point and devotion to proving there is no God is pointless and is wrong? I have no doubts about that. Quite frankly I think you are wasting your time, Algebe. A lack of religion will not make this world a better place, besides mankind has always walked hand in hand with faith. My statement leaves no doubt, death is certain and it is guaranteed for all. I am merely pointing out the fact that you are wasting your time, trying to convince others that they are blind, ignorant, some how stupid to believe in imaginary friends.. yet you accuse me of pride.. For shame! I don't claim to not be a sinner or that I will absolutely get into heaven and you will not, we're both sinners.. But I do think your sin is more grave than mine.
I confess, I am a proud one, I have my flaws. Everyone has sinned in their lives, no one is sinless.. Who ends up in hell and who does not.. Is certainly not for you to decide. I am not trolling you, I came to reply because I believe what is true should be stated. That's not trolling, neither is cursing out some godless heathen that mocks your faith. I can mock your beliefs myself all I want. But I don't do it in my daily life, unlike some atheists I know. If you were hopping to drag me into hell with you, you are sadly mistaken. The difference between me and you is that I come to defend something I believe in. You come to provoke responses, you don't seek an honest discussion. You immediately descend into derogatory comments, as soon as you disagree with someone. There is a difference between my sin and yours. Of course I am going to call some atheists simpletons, and fools.. when they say worse about me, without even bothering to get to know me. When they attack with vile words what I consider holy, and beautiful, something to respect.. You atheists are no different than racists, hating on people because they are different to you.
Taking lectures on hell from an Atheist seems rather funny. You might be wagering your eternity on your assumptions. If you love to gamble with the grave, that is your issue. But when gambling there is a high chance of losing. For someone destined to die, like everyone else, your gamble with the grave and an eternity seems very stupid to me. But hey your life, your choices.. You can still live a decent life without having to bash and smite people while you yet live it. Might save you from eternal damnation, if the Lord is lenient.. He really could be. I guess once day we will find out. Even if you don't believe in anything, you're not accomplishing anything positive with regards to the goals of your "atheist utopia" in this world by smiting, bashing and hating on people.. You are no proving yourselves to be any merciful than those you claim have oppressed you.
"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come." Mathew 12:31-32.
Why do you think death is certain?
Why do you think that everyone has sinned? I thought the bible said for example that Jesus was without sin?
If you believe god is just, why should anyone be in fear?
You claim that atheists hate on people who are different from them, and yet you say your god eternally damns people who do not think like you do.
I will answer you tomorrow, on those three questions. I have to go for now. But you will get a reply.
@uneducatedAtheist
Admitly I just scanned your 2nd and 3rd post, after your first attack on atheist, (on an atheist board no less!.)
Seems to me like you got real good at lying yourself, good liars always have lots of "confidence" in their decisions (they have too! For it to work!). But ya know, you are right, we all will end up dead. Yes you get to trade a false hope of an afterlife, meanwhile atheist not laboring under such delusion will instead enjoy the one life that everyone knows for sure we do have. We do not waste our lives waiting around for a "2nd birth" as you put it, based on zero evidence.
I pick one life well lived, over a life of "hoping it will get better once I am dead" every time. Plus it frees up so much time that is normally wasted in prayer. Some religions/people even take it so far to spend 1/4 to 1/2 of all their waking hours considering, praying to their imaginary god. What a waste.
Normally I am not this blunt to newcomers, but your post was rather blunt as well.
Essentially your entire first post is just a version of Pascal's wager. Which most of the more knowledgeable religious apologist abandoned centuries ago as it is ridiculous and full of major problems and easily shot down as a philosophy.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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@UneducatedAtheists: Doubts about what?
You do understand the meaning of the word "if" don't you?
For someone destined to die, like everyone else, your gamble with the grave and an eternity seems very stupid to me.
So are you advocating Pascal's wager now?
I guess once day we will find out.
And I guess that we won't. We'll end up in just the same state as before we were born, the only difference being that you'll have wasted your precious time looking for false comfort by bending your knee to one of the many gods that men have invented.
bash and smite people
Now that's ironic from someone who came charging in naming yourself "uneducated atheists" and hurling insults.
you don't seek an honest discussion
Actually the atheists here do. But time and time again Christians drop in, present a claim, and then bugger off never to be seen again, leaving us to argue in a vacuum. That sort of behavior is despicable and cowardly.
Your opinion, obviously.. In regards to me coming in charging, the previous comments that I read on the thread which I came in charging at.. was the reason. Or did you actually believe I am the kind that does not reciprocate the hostility? Common, like I said in the other thread. There is no honest discussion going on in here, there are simply people, trying to impose their beliefs on others, and having their self inflated ego's seriously bruised when someone writes something contrary.. You alone have proven this statement to be true, twice. I can see why Christians drop in, present a claim and then bugger off.. Some of you are nothing but pure provocateurs, that would probably get "bitch slapped" outside your forum by some theist.. The other are your kind.. I already gave an explanation of what I think of you.. and by the way, what the hell is up with repeating myself over and over. With normal people, things register very quick.. With atheists not so much. And some, I assume are good people. <<< The Donald's wager. No it's not cowardice on behalf of Christians, it's just you are toxic people.. I did my part, proved what I came to prove.. and guess what. I definitely will be leaving, because I have better things to do than argue with stupid all day.. Yeah.. I mean Sheldon.
P.s. Watching you all agreeing with each others comments is pretty hilarious. The system is rigged, and you are fake news!
@ UA
First I apologise, I did confuse your reply with the OP....but that doesnt stop you being an arrogant braggart .
Your para here here is no honest discussion going on in here, there are simply people, trying to impose their beliefs on others, and having their self inflated ego's seriously bruised when someone writes something contrary.. seriously? Oh lol that's so much more like a theists prayer fest page than anything that goes on here.
As atheists, a lack of belief in a god or gods, is just about all we have in common. We have theists here that fight their corner in here, we have our own political viewpoints of all points of the spectrum. So to try and label everyone in your limited imagination and vocabulary is just plain fucking rude.
If your were not so bollock brained and read your fucking posts you would quickly see everyone was rude to you precisely because of your arrogant, bare knuckled approach.
Just read this you pissant whinefest No it's not cowardice on behalf of Christians, it's just you are toxic people.. I did my part, proved what I came to prove.. and guess what. I definitely will be leaving, because I have better things to do than argue with stupid all day.. Yeah.. I mean Sheldon. Are you proud of writing that? Scattering insults like confetti at a wedding...and you wonder why Sheldon manned up to you? Go on lift up your petticoats and flounce off....I bet you tell your 'mates' (lol, sorry) how clever you were and how you beat those "fake news atheists who believe in stuff you know" ....all the while furtively masturbating to the sound of your own voice.
No one forced you to come here, Bullwinkle. If you can't take criticism of your vapid superstitious beliefs then don't share them on an atheist forum. What the fuck did you think would happen, we'd all fall on our knees and start praising Jesus.
You people are so arrogant it beggars belief.
" I can see why Christians drop in, present a claim and then bugger off"
As do we all, it's because their claims are superstitious guff, that they can demonstrate no objective evidence for. Just like you worshipping a dirty piece of cloth forged by nuns in the middle ages, and then throwing a tantrum and crying like a girl because others won't accept your risible unevidenced claim it is a miracle.
"With normal people, things register very quick. (sic)"
Quickly, not quick, and I can see you'd think gullible acceptance was the norm, but that sadly doesn't make them any less gullible, nor the beliefs any less absurd.
"it's just you are toxic people."
More histrionics, odd really as you came here knowing this, by your own admission. So you are either dumber than a bucket of hair, or you're a lying chippy theist, whose arrogance can't take his vapid beliefs being criticised, and so resorts to this kind of relentless ad hominem, maybe even both.
Sun, 10/28/2018 - 02:28 (Reply to #15)Permalink
Typically Uneducated theist " I don't doubt anything."
I shan't even feign surprise.
So, basically, you worship death, have no interest in making the world a better place, and have no empathy for those who think differently to you. Sad.
I answered you as well in my reply to Algebe.
"So, basically, you worship death, have no interest in making the world a better place, and have no empathy for those who think differently to you. Sad."
Sad, but fairly typical.
Jesus wept, Pascal's fucking wager now, what a truly moronic post.
"Death is their second birthday"
Convenient really as that will be roughly the education level they've attained if they believe this crap. Do they get fucking cake?
"Sad part is, if theists are right.. your afterlife doesn't look brighter than that hole you will end up in. Sad.."
What's sad is that people are so stupid they find that garbage compelling. I am no more scared of your vapid superstition, the anger of your fake deity, or your fictional afterlife of torture, than I am of being gored by a unicorn or drowned by a mermaid. I will at least have lived this life free from your crippling fear of a moronic irrational superstition as well, unlike you.
Cry me a river...
Duplicate
Absolute bollocks you thunderous cock smuggler.
Atheists have nothing to look forward too? How about every day we wake up... enjoying life that we are so lucky to be apart of...
What about you? You act like a total dense twat and treat people like shit and oh well all's well... because you can be forgiven by your imaginary friend.
Well good for you, if you can grow up and dismiss other make believe horse shit like santa, the Easter bunny... how about going one more moronic icon further.
@Randomhero1982: total dense twat
Not a "twat". A twat is a good thing, a fine thing. Something that deserves respect.
He's a twerp, which is defined as someone who farts in the bath and bites the bubbles.
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