God is real!

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Mitch's picture
Could we still sin in heaven?

Could we still sin in heaven?

Gristomatic's picture
Do you want to go to heaven?

You wouldn't sin becouse you wouldn't be tempted to sin.

Mitch's picture
What if I wanted to? You know

What if I wanted to? You know, free will and all that.

Gristomatic's picture
The only reason for sin is

The only reason for sin is temptation. In heaven you are free from temptation.

rotiferuk's picture
"Wow wow hang on, you dont

"Wow wow hang on, you dont have to do it all again:) so if you were a christian and you died, you would go to heaven, not sent back to earth again! Lol that would be stupid."

Hmm, it appears I misunderstood part of your previous post. I answered a question I thought you were asking rather than what you were really asking.

"Heaven is perfect becouse there is no sin, no temptation becouse god is perfect. Boring is an earthly state of mind. I think that the word perfect is kind of universal term. Perhaps there may be different choices of wording but it still means the same thing."

What you describe has no appeal for me.

"Unless you think that the world is perfect. Becouse I can give you plenty of reasons it's not."

The world is not perfect, however, it is real and we are here, living on it.

Gristomatic's picture
So prefer to live on this

So prefer to live on this rock where al these bad things happen to good people. Where you are not safe from temptation? Where others are not safe from temptation?

rotiferuk's picture
"So prefer to live on this

"So prefer to live on this rock where al these bad things happen to good people"

1) We are all living on this rock. We do not have a choice. If you want off that is fine by me. There are plenty of guns in the USA.....
2) IMHO you are obsessing with the negative aspects of life rather than looking for the positive things. This is not a healthy approach.
3) Yes, I like living on this rock.

"Where you are not safe from temptation? Where others are not safe from temptation?"

Those suffering from "temptation" can just cut off the bits which are causing issues and they will be fine - Matthew 5:30

Personally I prefer to retain all my body parts. It makes life much easier :-]

Mitch's picture
You sound like you disdain

For Gristomatic:

You sound like you disdain life.

science's picture
Life is not meaningless...it

Life is not meaningless...it is quite precious. Everyone should live it the best they can, because we all know that it is truly too short. But when you die, you die...THATS IT !!! Everyone goes to the same place...six feet under!! To try and convince yourself, and other people that have more common sense then that, that you will be going to some kind of paradise after it is all over, well,... I guess it's okay because you are trying to deal with your own mortality, which can be scary, so you'd like to believe that you don't really die to comfort yourself. But if someone dosen't believe as you do, that means that that person thinks that life is meaningless? You'd be better off living your life and enjoying it while you're still here, instead of concerning yourself with what may happen AFTER...without any proof, knowledge, or guarantees of anything. That is the true theist thinking. Believing these ridiculous things is a way to comfort themselves. Always remember, anyone can insist that ANYTHING exists once they make up their minds that it does. I believe in a Dragon that comes into my room every night to kiss me good night!! I KNOW he is there... and there is NOTHING you can say to me that will change my belief. Ridiculous...why, because it has nothing to do with a bible or religion? I KNOW HE IS THERE!!!

Luther's picture
You mostly seem to intend

You mostly seem to intend provocation and I'm not sure if you're even serious or functioning with a full deck. But I'll play along anyway because I feel like it. I'll just deal with the one question: "If you don't mind me asking what happened that made you one day question your faith?" That's a long story involving lots of issues. I could quite literally write a book, but instead I'll just tackle the proverbial tip of the ice berg.

As a believer I one day realized that everything I ever knew about God, came to me through other people. Either the writers of the bible or more recent people who claim to have revelations and speak for God. God himself was a no show, apart from my imagination and believing in him. This was unacceptable. We're talking about God, who is supposed to be the most important entity in existence, someone who loves us all dearly and gave his son to save us from our sins. And yet, since the writing of the bible - God says nothing. 2000 years of mankind struggling and suffering, enduring poverty and ignorance and famine and disease and confusion and the dark ages, calling out for this God to help. And yet for 2000 years God just sits back and hopes for mankind to read the bible (even though for centuries most people had no access to a bible). Or worse yet, God chose to depend on the the medieval Catholic church to do his bidding. This was God's plan?

Then there's the bible itself. I realize that not all theism is bible based but mine was and so I think from this perspective. I stepped back and looked at the bible, and my religion, from an outsider's perspective, and saw it all for what it really is - human imagination. I learned about manuscripts and discrepancies and errors. I also came to realize that the bible is unaware of itself and lacks foresight, and anything at all to suggest that it came from anyone but humanity. The New Testament wasn't written as a book at all, nor with an expectation of the earth continuing for thousands of years. The bible is a piecemeal assembly of various writings and letters, selected by men, not by God. The early Christians clearly expected an imminent return of Jesus and had no sense of of a need for a bible. Jesus meanwhile, never wrote anything or instructed that anything be written. No one even tried to write a record of his life until several decades passed. And now, 2000 years later, the antiquity of the bible is painfully obvious. Varied mindsets and times of the bible's writing are also more obvious. Little things just started to stand out to me. For example, the subject of grace, so essential to the modern evangelical church, and such a key topic in Paul's writings. And yet, Jesus, never, ever, spoke about grace.

I could go on and on but I would rather go to bed now.

ThePragmatic's picture


It is good of you to want to help. But I think you have gotten the wrong idea.

(This is an attempt at being informative, not intended to insult.)

First of, atheism is only "lack of belief in god". It's not a religion, a club, devil worshippers, god haters, or any other of the not all to uncommon misconceptions.

You have a lot of assumptions about atheists, that for the most part seems completely wrong. And your approach has been... less than graceful. In your first post you (unintentionally) managed to insult just about everyone, or just seem embarrassingly delusional. You sound very, very naive.

- Yes, atheists are often proud to be atheists, or at least they do not feel the need for any help to become believers of a faith. There are probably exceptions, but I think they are few. You see atheists as deprived of spirituality, most atheists see religious people as delusional.

- Many atheists have become atheists *despite* being subjected to a lot of indoctrination and proselytizing. Many have already thought through all the arguments you can think of, many times over. On the average, atheists have a better knowledge about religion then the religious do.

- You are not the first religious person to log on to a forum on the internet (with good intentions) and naively state something like "I have come here to help you spiritually deprived ignorants to enter the pearly gates!". One of my favorites is Yo MC WhatsUp, or whatever his name was. He made embarrassing "rap videos" believing he would instantly convince many to become Christians, the poor deluded screwball.

- Many atheists also feel an aversion (or worse) towards religion. I am an anti-theists, who thinks that religion does more harm than good for humanity. All you have to do is follow the news and notice that the horrors of religion is everywhere (no, Christianity is not an exception).

- Your assumptions, like "Atheists need/want help", "Atheists do not trust god", "Atheists believe life is meaningless" are utterly naive.
For example, how can someone trust or not trust in something they don't think exists?

You should really start reading the forum before posting. There is a lot of questions, answers and debates to be found, you will learn a lot.

science's picture
Why is it that the theists

Why is it that the theists feel that we as atheists "need help," and want to come in and "save the day"... rescue us from this terrible misfortune. Are we the ones that insist on believing in things that aren't there, and don't show themselves? Are we the ones that believe in these outlandishly ridiculous stories that defy all logic, rhyme, rythm, and reason? Are we the ones that believe in things that are scientifically, biologically, and physiologically IMPOSSIBLE? ( WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW SOMEONE PART SEAS, WALK ON WATER, turn the ocean colors, move a mountain, rise out of their own grave, and the biggie...get pregnant WITHOUT having sex??!!) So, correct me if I'm wrong, but WE, as atheists need help because we DON'T believe in these things? Pardon me, but THIS IS why the world is F----- UP!!!

Gristomatic's picture
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

ImFree's picture
Matthew 7:1-3King James

Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Better repent Gristomatic....

Gristomatic's picture
So what your saying is that I

So what your saying is that I'm judging you as being athiest, just as you judge me as being a Christian ? First of all You told me you were an athiest by putting it on your profile.

ImFree's picture
I'm just informing you that

I'm just informing you that your being hypocritical by not following the teachings you claim to adhere to. Yes, I'm an Atheist no doubt in that area.

Lets get back to the Noah story your avoiding.

Gristomatic's picture
Well I disagree becouse me

Well I disagree becouse me saying you are an athiest is not a judgement in my perspective. Simply becouse you told me you are. however, It would be hypocritical for instance if I were To hypothetically say that you are going to hell becouse you are an athiest. and no I haven't been avoiding your Noah question, as you can see I am trying to respond to a lot of comments at the same time

ImFree's picture
Good, because a large amount

Good, because a large amount of questionable topics in the Noah story we would love for you to address.

ImFree's picture
“It would be hypocritical for

“It would be hypocritical for instance if I were To hypothetically say that you are going to hell”

That’s exactly what you were doing but in an indirect passive aggressive manor by quoting scripture: “You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

Gristomatic's picture
Again I would have to

Again I would have to disagree. It does not say that you are going to hell, it says you are in danger of going to hell, which again you can change that. Why are you directing this at me anyway? In a way, I am just the messenger. But I feel like you are prosecuting me by judging me to be a hypocrit.

ImFree's picture
Just pointing out how one can

Just pointing out how one can interpret scripture to support any view wanted, thanks for providing the example.

ThePragmatic's picture


Spitting bible verses huh?
But surely I say on to you...

Luke 14:26
"26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

Leviticus 19:26
"26 ‘You shall not eat anything with the blood, nor shall you practice divination or soothsaying. 27 You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord."

Leviticus 20:13
"13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 21:18
"18 “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. 20 And they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear."

Deuteronomy 25:11
"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand."

Numbers 31:17
"17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately."

Leviticus 25:44
"44 And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves. 45 Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property. 46 And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves."

1 Timothy 2:12
"12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression."

Jeremiah 19:9
"9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and everyone shall eat the flesh of his friend in the siege and in the desperation with which their enemies and those who seek their lives shall drive them to despair."

Gristomatic's picture
Ok those seemed random. Would

Ok those seemed random. Would you mind clarifying?

ThePragmatic's picture
Certainly, my good man.

Certainly, my good man.

You spit out a bible verse as if it meant something. So I spit back a bunch of them.
Do they mean something?
Did you read them?
Do you believe in them?
Do you stand for what they mean?

Is it right to kill homosexuals?
Is it wrong for women to teach?
What is your view on slavery as it is portrayed in the bible?
Do you think Yahweh is a loving and just god, who punished people by making them eat their own children? Who kills women and children. Who thinks a disobedient son should get stoned to death?

Borp Schnorman's picture


Thank you for donating yourself for the sake of easy target practice.

Gristomatic's picture
Is this what I am to you?

Is that what I am to you, Target practice?

Borp Schnorman's picture
Yes, target practice. You're

Yes, target practice. You're making it too easy. Check your intellectual premises.

Gristomatic's picture
I'm making what too easy? I

I'm making what too easy? I am making it too easy to make fun of me?

Gristomatic's picture
Ok so what I want to know is

Ok so what I want to know is why do athiest come here? Are you looking for something? Are you missing something?

ImFree's picture
Yes, we are missing

Yes, we are missing christians that provide evidence for their beliefs.


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