Many atheists seem to resent the God they don’t believe in because of his apparent cruelty. HOWEVER IF God exists then these sufferings are easy to explain.
If you are a child and you fall down and scape your knee it hurts really bad and it may feel like the end of the world to you but in the grand scheme of life, the scrape is a relatively minor event. And IF we meet an afterlife of pure and eternal ecstasy then whatever pain is felt on earth is like a blink of an eye and a scrape on the knee.
Furthermore, any seemingly unjust behavior Of God toward mankind could be likened to a parent disciplining their child. To the child the punishment may be harsh and unfair but the parent knows better.
Finally, IF God exists and we have free will, all the pain and suffering in the world is either a direct or indirect cause of the world which we have created out of our own old sin nature.
IF God exists we cannot use our egocentric frame of mind to judge what we deem as “bad” God behavior.
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
This deity you possit……. does it have a name..... ?
And once again a mish mash of conjecture, superstition and not much else.
Certainly not a shred of evidence.
At least "jordan" is out of the closet and we know exactly what nonsense he is peddling.
And here is some information for you "Jordan"; I am not mad at any god, I just do not believe they exist.
IF...
Does that not scream out to you, just how desperately theists clutch at straws?!
Face it, you believe because you fear the unknown, be that consciously or subconsciously.
Be it death, afterlife, human purpose, morality, consciousness... you cannot answer and dont like the possibility that it doesnt support a narrative.
I find most theists fall into this as well as having some desperate need to be special as a species... but the truth is we are nothing, we are no more special then a grand of sand.
We will one day blink out of existence and the cosmos will barely give a shit.
Nature is cruel.
@Jordan: Many atheists seem to resent the God
Nope. I don't resent fictional characters.
I resent the vile, degenerate, lying, greedy, entitled arseholes who peddle the god lie and use it to control, hurt, and impoverish other people. I resent all the lost time and unnecessary pain caused by the dead weight of anti-progress, anti-science theist bigots.
@algebe
Theists are no more or less vile or greedy than atheists.
@Jordan
People being people, i slightly agree with you. BUT, theists are generally the dominant population everywhere and they have ideologies where it is permitted to do immoral behaviors and that give them ludicrous excuses to not be responsible for their actions.
@Jordan: Theists are no more or less vile or greedy than atheists.
Read my post again. In both cases I'm referring to types of theists who exhibit certain kinds of behavior.
In fact I think some of the "theists" I referred to are probably atheists at heart but continue to exploit the god fantasy for their own ends. For example, I don't see how popes or televangelists could be anything but atheists. If they truly believed, the fear of god's wrath would drive them insane.
@ Algebe
If it wasn't too long I would write that on a placard.....Oh and you left out the snivelling, sycophantic lickspittle toadies of the apologetics type and their hangers on.
I don't resent the god of the Bible. His morality is the product of iron age human morality. What I do resent is the idea of an eternal life. Some people seem to think that in Heaven people would just sing songs to the glory of God. What a terrible prospect. I'm created to become a sycophant for some megalomaniacle being to whom creation comes naturally? What a narcissist. Such a depressing idea. Could you imagine what sort of torture even eternal bliss would eventually become? Every day you would be at your orgasmic maximum. How long would it be before all that could be done had been done by you, and everything turns to tedium? Forever. An eternity of boredom. Please, rather give me the sweet release of oblivion.
@peurii
If heaven exists, it would be a dimension where you exist in a complete state of ecstasy. Boredom, dissatisfaction, discontent etc., by definition, could not Co-exist in a state of total and pure bliss.
So, essentially, the OP still has no evidence for any of her/his statements.
"He who orders his slave to do things that he knows him to be incapable of doing, then punishes him, is a fool." - Abu Isa al-Warraq
@ SApporo
Of course he has no evidence. No rationale for his abjectly craven statements . He is out as a christian apologist. And a very bad excuse for one at that.
The OP also says "all the pain and suffering in the world is either a direct or indirect cause of the world which we have created out of our own old sin nature." ...but if pain and suffering is "bad", than the greatest sin is eternal torture.
God believers make harmless behaviors sins. Nature is cruel but theists make things worse.
@Jordan: "Atheists resent the God they do not believe in."
Assuming you have sufficiently defined that god, is it not reasonable to resent it? I resent any asshole that supports eternal punishments for finite crimes. To know if your God is "resented" or not, you have to define it. It is completely reasonable to resent horrific assertions., Especially when people believe them and then engage in horrific acts because of them,
RE" "And IF." I really hope your uncertainty in your position is not wasted on the rest. In the magical world of "What If" anything is possible. "What if" there is no after life? After Life or No After life, which one do we have more evidence for?
RE: "Furthermore, any seemingly unjust behavior Of God toward mankind could be likened to a parent disciplining their child."
The difference is that when we stone our children to death, we are locked away for being the assholes we are. For some bizarre reason, the Christian God can do not wrong. Aren't we more moral than your God?
If God does not exist and we don't have free will, we still have to live our lives and regard both good and bad behavior based on the cultures within which they occur unless of course you can demonstrate a full range of "Objective" good and bad behaviors. On what do you base these objective good and bad behaviors. Why are they good or bad? Because God says so? I don't think so. I know for a fact God says some really horrible shit according to the bible/ So what are you talking about.
Jordan, you wrote, “IF God exists we cannot use our egocentric frame of mind to judge what we deem as “bad” God behavior.”
Thanks so much for reminding us of one of the rules you’ve set down.
@Jordan: What I like is that he keeps using the word "IF." I am convinced his complete lack of confidence is a sway towards Atheism.
@Jordan
At this point if you are not flat out trolling, I am impressed at your ability to spin this stuff, (to yourself.)
Did you really compare all the death, and suffering in this world inflicted on us by nature, (but mostly other humans,) to a knee scrape or parents discipline of a child?
So, if you really believe this...tripe, (to put it nicely,) why don't you sign up to be a hotshot fireman or something similar and take on the most risky jobs to "do good" as you think it is, and perhaps get a nice lucky shortcut to this "afterlife" of ecstasy? Is it still "sin" to take on dangerous but important jobs as a shortcut to this eternal "bliss" that seems to be so much better than our current lives as you think? What is stopping you? Is not this the same rationalizations people used to get people to march off to war in a far away land like in the crusades? (If you were a foot soldier like most of them, odds are high you would never return home alive.)
(I am not actively suggesting you take on dangerous jobs, more I want to understand how you reason for yourself what you just outlined in your O.P.?)
Would you consider those that take highly dangerous jobs to the benefit of others to be "cheating?" and those people not granted entry to heaven? Why or why not?
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▮I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Jordan
I can't believe what you actually wrote and justify it ??
"......Just like a parent disciplining their child ??" You have to be kidding.
What parent tests their children their entire life? What kind of parent makes their children suffer when they are doing good?? What kind of parent would kill the offspring of his own child to test them? What kind of parent would starve his children? What kind of parent would harden the hearts of their offspring? What kind of parent would throw their children out to the wolves to see how they will turn out? What kind of parent would intentionally make them suffer?
I'll tell you what kind of parent. An alcoholic SOB who lacks empathy, integrity and responsibility TO SAY THE LEAST !!!!!
Jordan, forget about the sufferings of adults for a minute..... The Children Jordan..... Who Loves them ??? Who ???
Anyone making children suffer deserves NO RESPECT.
The grand scheme of things you say. That's either some psychopathic mentality or insanity.
I'm sure of one thing Jordan. You have not suffered anything close to those who are truly going through it DAY AFTER DAY.
How dare you try and justify the pain that those at the bottom of the barrel are going through.
What's wrong with this statement Jordan: God is the most loving of all but he has reasons for making CHILDREN SUFFER.
Frack that pisses me off
First OP that has me riled up.