Is materialism a real theory? Do most atheist believe in it?

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rat spit's picture
But not the same boat. I have

But not the same boat. I have a double major in Biology and Math. If I had taken some Computer Modelling I might be somewhere else today. That didn’t occur, however.

My question is not only about Athiests dying for a cause - it also encompasses what an Atheist will kill for. As Athiests, you’re supposed to see through all the bullshit; be critical and skeptic.

The 1% has created a world designed around earning them more money. The common man is but a pawn in this structure. Though I haven’t studied the French Revolution, I would be interested to know what it finally took not only for a nation to take up arms against a corrupt over-structure - but also, how was this made possible? The means of producing arms seems to be key (next to organizing groups). What would an Atheist kill for? Justice? Equality? True freedom?

CyberLN's picture
Rat spit, you sure seem to

Rat spit, you sure seem to want to put atheists in some sort of group that would have a common opinion about things other than a belief in gods. Why do you do this? If you’re curious about what an individual atheist would/ not do in a given situation, ask that individual. Asking ‘what atheists would kill or die for’ is silliness.

Sheldon's picture
This ^^^^......rat spit's

This ^^^^......rat spit's question is specious, as atheists are not an homogeneous group beyond their lack of belief in a deity or deities.

arakish's picture
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ and the one

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ and the one Sheldon refers to.

Both are spot on. Bullseye. However, I still answered his question as if directed at me. Even my post NEVER says anything about being applicable to anyone else other than myself.

Thanks you two for the clarification.

rmfr

arakish's picture
rat spit: "My question is not

rat spit: "My question is not only about Athiests dying for a cause - it also encompasses what an Atheist will kill for. As Athiests, you’re supposed to see through all the bullshit; be critical and skeptic."

Notice BOLD text...

In actuality, there are quite a few things I would kill for, and die for. Protecting me and mine is bunch of resons. I could care less of our philosophical differences, nor of the laws of the land, mess with me and mine... just don't... the results ain't gonna be purty.

Otherwise, ain't much else I would kill for. Remember, I am an Atheist. I am also an Anti-Theist. I am also an Anti-Religionist. The morality I hold to be dear, and the only TRUE morality is called humanism. It goes against my morality to kill for no reason.

However, drop me into a war zone, I become the kind of person who will shoot first, to hell with the questions. In a war zone it is kill or be killed. And I am going to kill as many as I can to keep from being killed until I am killed, or I am extricated from the war zone.

Do the two above short paragraphs make sense?

rat spit: "As Athiests, you’re supposed to see through all the bullshit; be critical and skeptic."

I shall be the first to admit that even I sometimes cannot see through all the bullshit. I just try me damnedest and most of the time succeed. Just not always. Critical and skeptical. Yep. Mr. Spock taught me all about that when I was a kid. If it weren't for him, those Baptist Bible Belters where I grew up, would have made me into another retarded Religious Absolutist. God Forbid (habit not belief) should I have been converted into a Religious Absolutist Apologist. The way I now argue against religion, can you imagine if that was for religion? Damn, that even scares the shit out me.

***tree shivers so hard there is shower of leaves***

Hell I even met Leonard Nimoy at a Star Trek convention (before they became Comic Cons) and thanked him from the bottom of heart for saving me from those bastards. He even invited me wife and I to dine and speak with him and his wife. Best damned dinner talk I have ever had. Did you know that Leonard Nimoy was a Jewish atheist? Read his books I Am NOT Spock and I AM Spock. Very good reads and I highly recommend them. And guess what he and I did at the end of our dinner?

Him: "Peace and long life." — standard Vulcan greeting
Me: "Live long and prosper." — standard Vulcan response

And yes we even did the hand salute. The most awesomest moment in time I have ever had. And it was with my childhood hero. Sname he is now gone from us.

In summation: In actuality, every person is willing to kill for something anything everything if put into the proper circumstances.

rmfr

rat spit's picture
The paragraphs make sense.

The paragraphs make sense. Thank you for your story of Leonard Nimoy as well.

You mention that if dropped in a war zone you would be the first to unload. But the enemy the world faces now requires identification - and then viable reason for termination - along with the willing sacrifice of a generation that must bare the responsibility. Will it ever come about?

As Muse writes:

“If we could flip a switch
And open our third eye
We should see that we
Should never be afraid to die”

Tin-Man's picture
@Rat Spit Re: "The common

@Rat Spit Re: "The common man is but a pawn in this structure."

Hate to tell you, but if think the "common man" ranks as high as a pawn in their structure, then you are dreaming. The Average Joe out there barely rates as an ant in an ant hill in the grand scheme of things. My military unit (and others) could roughly be considered a pawn, perhaps. But little individual Average Joe Citizen is nothing more than a speck of dust on the board to be brushed away if necessary.

Sheldon's picture
"As Athiests, you’re supposed

"As Athiests, you’re supposed to see through all the bullshit; be critical and skeptic."

This just anther assumption you're making. The only thing that is axiomatically true about all atheists is that they don't believe in a deity or deities. Atheists I've encountered on the whole do seem to be more sceptical of claims and recognise when they have no objective evidence to support them, bit it's not a requirement, I have also encountered atheists who bat shit crazy, like the idiot who posted on here that he had invented "unbeliefism", he genuinely believed a human being could function and interact with reality without holding a single belief.

"What would an Atheist kill for? Justice? Equality? True freedom?"

What has atheism got to do with that question? It's like asking what people who don't believe in dragons would kill for? I don't see any causal connection between the two.

arakish's picture
@ Sheldon: "...atheists who

@ Sheldon: "...atheists who [are] bat shit crazy, like the idiot who posted on here that he had invented "unbeliefism"..."

I wished I was here to have seen that. That would have been fun.

Hey, Randomhero1982, think I could have broken that one? ;-)

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
@Rat Spit

@Rat Spit

Howdy. Another good evening to you, good sir. Limited time this evening, but I will get in what I can.

Re: "Indeed, a balanced life of work, rest and play is all one seemingly requires to be content."

On a personal level, I agree with you one hundred ten percent. While my wife and I cannot be considered wealthy, I am happy to say that we are fortunate enough to live a very comfortable and fulfilling life together. She works a regular job with relatively decent pay, and I draw a retirement check and spend my time maintaining the house and property and working on various little projects here and there. We have to manage our money carefully, but we are able to pay our bills, put good food on the table, and even have a little left over to treat ourselves to a few "luxuries" once in awhile. A guy can't ask for much more than that. Then again, there are those out there who are simply not satisfied with just "being comfortable." No matter how much they ever have or ever obtain, it is never-never enough. I have known many people like that over the years. Sure, they have more money and material things than some small countries, but they never seem to be happy. Those are the folks I truly feel sorry for. But, hey, whatever floats their boat.... (or yacht, as the case may be). *chuckle*

Re: "The world is becoming more and more corporatized..."

Yep. No argument from me about that one. Kinda sad, really. I often miss the little "Mom and Pop" stores that flourished before the days of Walmart, Lowe's, and other such mega-stores.

rat spit's picture
Sounds a lot like my life

Sounds a lot like my life with the exception that I am not anywhere near retirement - nor do my current career aspirations appear to be providing any such thing in the future.

However, with a wife I love, two pay checks coming in every two weeks, a cat, good food, and good travelling options and vacations, I am content - I must say.

I have never known anything other than the urban sprawl, but it is appalling. I could count on two hands the number of rich enterprises which, if taken down, would lead to a more fair and equal society. There is a catch 22, and these enterprises are safeguarded - but the anarchist in me has always wanted to see them fall. My only existential gripe in life is that the masses are in a bind and can not overturn gas, oil, retail monopolies, banking systems, - and what else? There is a whole slew of engrained, but vestigial, enterprises out there. Current technologies could easily replace them and yet we have the Elon Musks of the world turning a huge profit on what would be a world revolution if it was made more accessible. My two cents.

Edit: Elon does a lot of charitable good for the world too. That shouldn’t be overlooked.

arakish's picture
So does Bill Gates. At one

So does Bill Gates. At one time, Bill Gates, through Microsoft, was donating over 17 billion dollars a year to universities and students. 17 billion, not m-m-millions, but B-B-Billions.

And guess what? The Religious Absolutists were always poopooing him for not donating to religion. Fucking sorry shits. He was donating right where it was needed.

rmfr

Sheldon's picture
" with all due respect, can

" with all due respect, can an Atheist live and die for a principle in the same way a radical Islamist will put his life at stake for Allah? And the OverLord is watching and all that of course ..."

No, as Allah is a superstitious fiction, whereas principles are something tangible to live by, and if need be die for. The fact that Islamic extremist are so delusional they think suicide pacts and indiscriminate murder are a good thing is not a selling point for your chosen superstition.

There is no over lord, this a delusion your ego seems to need to cope with life's realities.

rat spit's picture
Am I selling something here?

Am I selling something here? How do you know the OverLord is myth? Has He ever spoken to you? Have you ever spoken to Him!?

Sheldon's picture
"Am I selling something here?

"Am I selling something here? "

Indeed you're trying, but I don't think anyone is buying.

"How do you know the OverLord is myth? "

I don't believe it is real as you have asserted it without evidence, thus in accordance with the epistemological razor named after the late author and polemicist Christopher Hitchens it is dismissed in the same fashion.

"Has He ever spoken to you? Have you ever spoken to Him!?"

I donlt even know what you're talking about beyond the name you have assigned to your bare assertion. What objective evidence can you demonstrate that this thing is real? Also you would need to properly define it, and the evidence would need to support that definition. You're putting your wheezy clapped out donkey behind your cart here I think.

Cognostic's picture
Can an Atheist live and die

Can an Atheist live and die for a principle in the same way a radical Islamist will put his life at stake for Allah?

Most would probably live and die for their families or close friends. I have put my life in danger several times for others. You live long enough and it just happens sometimes. It's a human thing and not a God thing. By the way.... fuck the overlord.

rat spit's picture
Well said. BTW The OverLord

Well said. BTW The OverLord FUCKS YOU!!! Not the other way around.

toto974's picture
Does it make you happy that,

Does it make you happy that, if your god existed, it... Oh no, He, excuse me, he would "fucks" us?

rat spit's picture
I simply mean He has the

I simply mean He has the right (ability also) to “fuck you over.” Am I happy about it? I have no choice in the matter. When one is dealing with a power such as this there is no recourse to ones own definition of justice (as a way out of consequence). Is He good? Yes. Does that mean He hasn’t the task of separating the wheat from the chaff? No. And he does and he will.

Cognostic's picture
Shit! If I was as gay and

Shit! If I was as gay and enjoyed anal like some people on the forum, I would be a member of your belief system in an instant. Is this faith catching on in the Gay community or those that prefer anal? I know, not all Gays enjoy anal but an overload who gives it out freely has to do something for someone. Sorry for the Blasphemy. You go ahead and enjoy your overlord.

rat spit's picture
Cognostic: Do you give a shit

Cognostic: Do you give a shit about the 1%? The corruption and inequality?

arakish's picture
rat spit

rat spit

Although you asked it of Cognostic, I am also going to answer. About that 1%. Fuck them. They do not mean a damn to me. They ain't done nothing for me and mine, so why should I drop a brown log for them? Hell the brown logs I drop into the toilet are worth more than them.

Anything further, read Tin-Man's post.

Oh. and the Overlord is kind of fun to ride if you get behind it...

rmfr

rat spit's picture
They are fucking over the

They are fucking over the world. In my opinion the one thing this generation should do is fight this entity that threatens our existence on earth. The catch phrase of the millenial is “I want to die.” In a world that has no future, this generation - more than any other (I would think) - has the right to want to die each and every day trying to summon the will to put on their uniform and go flip burgers for eight hours, five days a week.

Give them AK’s. Give them structure. Give them targets.

Just thinking out loud here.

Tin-Man's picture
@Rat Spit Re: "They {the

@Rat Spit Re: "They {the "One Percenters", I am guessing.} are fucking over the world. In my opinion the one thing this generation should do is fight this entity that threatens our existence on earth."

*deeeeep breath*.... *heavy sigh*.... Sadly, I cannot really argue with you about how the super-rich elite and powerful are currently controlling the world. Honestly, though, it has pretty much always been that way in some form or fashion. Not being pessimistic. Just stating what I believe to be a fact. With today's advances in communications and technology, though, it just makes it that much easier for them to do so. Personally, I think of the super-elite "One Percenters" about the same way I think about the weather. Which is why I say I do not waste my time worrying about them, because there is absolutely nothing I can do about it even if I wanted to. As far as I am concerned in regards to "doing something" about the super-elite.... well, I might as well go try to stop a volcano from erupting or try to stop a tornado from hitting my house. Those folks at that level did not get to that level by being super-friendly and caring humanitarians. Which, again, is why I rarely give them any thought unless somebody specifically brings something about them to my attention. And even then - much like I do with the weather - I may very likely just brush it aside with very little concern.

Re: "Give them AK’s. Give them structure. Give them targets."

And exactly what would that accomplish? And what would those targets be, anyway? So you go out and kill some mega-rich dude... So what? Does that mean you somehow magically get all of his wealth, or that his wealth and power simply go - *POOF!* - and vanish? This isn't exactly the Necromongers Society where you get to keep what you kill. (For those familiar with "The Chronicles of Riddick".) And do you have ANY idea of the logistics involved in trying to gather, train, and supply a group large enough to even remotely CONSIDER attempting something like that? WOW!.... *loooong slooooow whistle*..... And on top of all of that, good luck tracking down and pinpointing any ONE of the main figureheads at any given time, MUCH LESS trying to coordinate multiple attacks at once. Hell, I could go on and on about this all night, but unfortunately I do not have the time.

Look, I do know - and even sympathize with you somewhat - how you feel. It is frustrating. Beyond frustrating. I get it. And I do know we all say things off the top of our heads out of frustration and on impulse sometimes because of that annoying frustration. It is called being human. And, yes, I do agree there are MANY unfair things in this world. But, honestly and realistically, that is really just life in general. And that is why I avoid wasting my time worrying about things over which I have ZERO control. Simple as that.

arakish's picture
@ Tin-Man

@ Tin-Man

Thanks, and Thanks.

I was going to answer that same post. And would have said literally the same thing (maybe using different wordings). And I would have probably been a lot more verbose and long winded.

***tree gives a flourishing bow***

Kudos to you mate.

rmfr

rat spit's picture
One is still allowed to dream

One is still allowed to dream I suppose.

Tin-Man's picture
@Rat Spit Re: "One is still

@Rat Spit Re: "One is still allowed to dream I suppose."

True dat! *chuckle*

xenoview's picture
@rat spit

@rat spit
So you want to sow terror, death,fear, and hate? That would make you a monster.

I think you are worst than a troll. You should be knick from AR. Your IP banned.

Cognostic's picture
Sniffing the air..........

Sniffing the air.......... I smell revolution coming. They did not build huge detention centers in America for nothing. They are not starting to round up and arrest homeless people in major cities for nothing. Police are not being trained for suburbia combat for no reason. I am not planning on staying in Korea and retiring in the Philippines, Cambodia or Portugal for no reason. It;s not America. It's the world. And it's coming whether you like it or not.

toto974's picture
We can try Patagonia?

We can try Patagonia?

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