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algebe's picture
FishNChips007: having never

FishNChips007: having never once sinned

In Luke, Jesus tells his disciples to leave their families and follow him. He told breadwinners to abandon their families. That sounds pretty sinful to me. I wonder what happened to those families. Do you think they got welfare payments or food stamps?

Jesus lost his temper, another sin--in fact, a deadly sin. He got angry and attacked people who were just making a legal living by changing money for visitors to the temple.

If, as you seem to believe, Jesus not only survived crucifixion but is still alive today, why has he remained silent and inactive through two millennia of absolute horrors committed by his followers? Inquisitions, witch-hunters, and Christian kings have tortured, murdered, and massacred countless innocent men, women, and children in the name of Jesus. That's a sin. Nazis who committed similar crimes in the name of Adolf Hitler were quite rightly hanged.

FishNChips007's picture
Al, you are woefully ignorant

Al, you are woefully ignorant on these topics and greatly in err. Firstly, understand that the Bible later describes Peter, leading around his wife. His wife went with him. Secondly, do you have any knowledge on ancient Jewish culture? Do you have any idea of how those money changers were worse than today's false preachers who pedal a prosperity-gospel and keep people away from actually entering into God's presence, while lining their pockets with the hard earned money of the people who have no idea what is actually going on? You are aware that is what those money changers were doing, right, Al?

You do know that even a worldly judge would be severely angry at someone who committed such a crime, right? Maybe you forgot that God is the standard of right, so when God gets angry at sin, He does not sin, but does what is right. Who are you to judge God Almighty? Have you committed the worst sin of all, the same sin lucifer committed, which turned a beautiful angel into the ugliest creature of all? Have you raised yourself to a position above God Almighty and do you have the audacity to judge The Judge of the universe?

You are also woefully ignorant in your description of Christians causing wars. Just because someone claims to be a Christian does not mean that they actually are. Jesus said, speaking of false followers of God, "You will know them by their fruits." Someone who belongs to Christ will not commit these atrocities you described here. False converts will.

Did you know that the Nazis wore on their belts "God with us," Do you really think they were on God's side? How can you be so woefully ignorant?

Sheldon's picture
FishNChips007 " Just because

FishNChips007 " Just because someone claims to be a Christian does not mean that they actually are.

How can you be so woefully ignorant?"

That's a No True Scotsman fallacy, and you calling anyone ignorant is pretty stupid, but then wilful stupidity seems to be your raison d'etre. As is manifestly displayed in that post, it's as if you are trying to be wrong as many times as you can on as many different topics as you can.

....and this..

FishNChips007 " Someone who belongs to Christ will not commit these atrocities you described here."

is also a No True Scotsman Fallacy, but then you are the poster boy on here for irrational bullshit.

FishNChips007 "God is the standard of right,"

Then you must think it is moral to endorse slavery, and to torture a newborn baby to death, and commit genocide, and ethnic cleansing and to traffic virginal female prisoners as sex slaves, well that's a pretty fucked up idea of right IMHO.

Edited....typos and clarity...

Grinseed's picture
"Do you have any idea of how

"Do you have any idea of how those money changers were worse than today's false preachers?"
No I don't.
I invite you sincerely to educate me.
The "money changers" are targeted as the bad guys by the early Jewish gospel writers, to avoid friction with the Temple. The gospel writers were not as fearless as has been supposed.

Just to get started, the currency of the time was a mix of coinage (no paper) which reflected the multicultural nature of the Roman Empire and included Jewish shekels, Greek drachmas and Roman denarii and various lesser currencies. Exchange rates between them all were well determined before Yeshua.

My study of Jewish culture of the 1st century AD suggests that there money changers in the Temple who exchanged Roman and Greek currency for Jewish currency, which was the only tender the Temple would accept for sacrificial services. The reason was because the Tyrian shekel minted in the city of Tyre was the only coinage of the time that bore no image of a mortal king (refer ten commandments). The sacrifice money was for the Mosaic prescribed preparation and ritualised and prayer ladened despatch of the live animal sacrifices by the priests who were Pharisees and Saducees.

Sacrificial animals, meeting the strict sacrificial requirements of purity and ranging from small birds to large animals, sold in the Temple court yard, could be paid for in any currency. I have not ascertained if the priests were involved in this trade but I feel certain they had to be involved in approving the sacrificial purity and most likely for another fee.
Luke 12:6 mentions what may have been an early "five for the price of four" deal, five sparrows, presumably for sacrifice, not much meat on a sparrow to eat, for a mere two farthings, cheap as chips.

As the Temple in Jerusalem was the only sanctified place where blood sacrifices could be made in all Judea, it was a thriving concern.
For those who had to travel long distances to the Temple and did not bring their own, or for those urban locals who had an "impulse" need, sacrificial animals were available for sale. The Temple would have looked sounded and smelled like a combination livestock sales yard, abattoir, and Ray's Barbecue Shack (without any special sauce). Its no wonder Yeshua got the shits about the ritual shenanigans in the sacred Temple.

Of course the money changers charged a fee for their service but they also had to pay a stall-holder lease to the Temple for their spot in the courtyard. Visitors to the Temple, sacrificing or not, paid a Temple tax of two drachmas or two denarii per head. A single denarii was equivalent to a day's wages for a labourer at the time. so the price of admission was a hefty one.

So your poor worshipper arrives at the Temple with no sacrifice, pays two denarii to the Temple just to enter, can spend up to any amount on a sacrifice to the stall holders, but must pay the money changers a fee for exchanging their drachmas and denarii for shekels to pay the priests to make their sacrifice and all he can do is hope his considerable investment, his sacrifice, his plea to his god is answered.
This was the massive lucrative confidence trick to which folks like Yehsua ben Josef objected to that led to his supposed trashing of the Temple courtyard. Yeshua is quoted as preferring worship to be private, modest and only between the believer and his god, just as he prescribed in the Sermon on the Mount.

The "money changers" were tagged as the "bad guys" by the gospel writers instead of the Temple and its requirement for blood sacrifice and coin in exchange for intercession with "God". They knew the Temple authorities had already commercialised the faith but they deflected the charge because early followers of Yeshua still worshipped in synagogues when as tolerated heretics it would have been most imprudent to offend the Temple.

If you were looking for a comparison for the wealthy megachurches in the world today, its not found in the 'money changers'. but rather in the basic business plan erected over 2,000 years ago by the Temple in Jerusalem, which was only merely an early megachurch that enjoyed a monopoly and charged money at every conceivable point of contact with worshippers and small business operators. And, just by the by, the priests were also allowed to take a free share of the meat from the sacrifices as well for their own consumption.

At worst the money changers were making a profit on currency exchange, not by peddling any 'prosperity gospel'. They weren't preventing the Jews from understanding their traditional relationship with Yahweh, they were facilitating the means of their worship as prescribed by their Torah, the Law and the Temple. You seem to be confusing Christian and Mosaic faiths by demonising the Jewish money lenders as being more evil than modern Christian personality based mega churches.

edited for errors committed over three interrupted sessions.

Tin-Man's picture
@Grinseed Re: Money changers

@Grinseed Re: Money changers

Holy shit, Grin! That was fantastic! I just learned something new today. Thank you!... *respectful tip of my hat*...

Grinseed's picture
You earn a squawk of

@ Tin
You earn a squawk of appreciation. Squawk!

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Grinseed...

@ Grinseed...
this is going in my research and rebuttal file....thank you.

algebe's picture
@FishNChips007: Al, you are

@FishNChips007: Al, you are woefully ignorant

Oh dear. Did I touch a nerve?

The money changers were conducting a perfectly legal business. People came from all over to the temple and needed local money to buy animals for sacrifice. So the money changers were helping to meet a demand created by your god's strange appetite for burnt flesh. At least they weren't burning people yet.

The Nazis? Of course they had "Gott mitt uns" on their belts. They were doing god's work. Hitler said as much in "Mein Kampf". The Holocaust was part of a long Christian tradition.

BTW, do you know which government was the first to sign a treaty with the Nazis? Look up Reichskonkordat.

Yes I'll judge god and Jesus and all their deluded followers for all the harm they've caused and continue to cause.

Cognostic's picture
@FishNChips007: HA HA HA

@FishNChips007: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ....
Al--- you fucking retard. Don't you know how great Jesus was. The market with the money changer was literally the size of six football fields. Jesus used the magic whip he fashioned to beat them all and chase each and every one of them out of the market place. The Roman guards, watching over the market for the specific purpose of stopping any fights, just looked at the little man Jesus flailing his whip about and chasing down the very nasty, (Can you imagine how nasty they were?) money changers. Never before had the guards seen such disobedience of Roman law. The guards were all so dumbfounded that they were unable to do a fucking thing. Even after Jesus cleared the 6 football fields of money changers the guards just stood there in utter and complete silence. The same sort of silence expressed in the Biblical fantasy story of Jesus and the money changers. (The story the Christians think is real.)

Why are you so ignorant of Christians. You retard!!! When God killed every first son in Egypt because the Pharaoh was being an ass, it's because those children deserved to die and not because the Pharaoh was an ass. When God commanded his soldiers to laugh and cut open the stomach of pregnant women and then dash their unborn babies onto rocks, it was because he knew those unborn babies were sinful pieces of shit. Something you could not understand in a million years. God is always just.

You really are just like Lucifer as you cast judgment against god. After all, killing 8 people is still killing. It's exactly the same as God killing over 30,000,000 innocent babies, men, and women. (We are not yet counting all the animals or those who parish in the Great Flood). It does not matter, God has a good reason for killing people and you don't get to pass judgment on him even if you have not killed anyone. God is above your judgment and can do as he wishes because he is a loving god who only butchers people when he wants to.

If you liked this bullshit story and you want to hear more, you can buy a Bible at your local book store..... or just steal one..... the Bible is the most stolen book in the world. You gotta watch those sinful little Christians. They get forgiven all their misdeeds on Sundays so each new week begins anew and they are not responsible in any way for anything that has gone on before. They have been forgiven!!

Finally, your ignorance is stupefying. You would not know a real Christian if it jumped up and bit you in the ass. Catholics are not real Christians. The Jehovah's witness are not real Christians. The Baptists are not real Christians. The Assemblies of God are not real Christian Churches, the Eastern Orthodox Church is not a Christian church, Oriental Orthodoxy is not Christian, the Oneness Pentecostals are certainly not real Christians, La Luz del Mundo and the Iglesia ni Cristo would only be considered Christian by an absolute moron, Christadelphians are only Christian by name and nothing else so they are not real Christians, Christian Science is a Joke and not real Christian, Dawn Bible Students are a bunch of frauds, United Church of God is another fucking joke because it is based on fraud and loaded with nothing but frauds. Then you have Churches like the Presbyterians, the Amish, Quakers, Hittites, Mennonites, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Calvinists, Seventh Day Adventists, Anabaptist, Hussite, Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Alexandrian Rite, the Society of Saint Pius X , and other Catholic and Protestant faiths along with Bahi and Hinduism who have no issues at all with Christianity ALL BEING FAKE!!!

It should be obvious, just because you stick a cross on top of a building and read John 3:16, accept Jesus into your heart and profess belief, does not mean you are a Christian or even saved. You have to say you have a personal relationship with Jesus, accept the real gift of the Holy Ghost and talk like an idiot before God will even recognize you! Trust me I know and so does Fish and Chips.

Even so, one of us is a real Christian and the other is fishy. Can you guess who the real Christian is???

Grinseed's picture
"Can you guess who the real

"Can you guess who the real Christian is???"

I know! I know!...Jesus!

What was the prize?

Whitefire13's picture
Waving arms to get attention.

Waving arms to get attention... see pic


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algebe's picture
@Fishnchips: why have you

@Fishnchips: why have you rejected the God of the Bible? Keep in mind that criminals tend to avoid police offers and they tend to abhor the judge.

How dare you. How fucking dare you suggest that people who reject your god are criminals. Your imaginary god, through his addled followers, is responsible for some of the most atrocious crimes in human history. Your anti-progress, anti-science religion has held back human progress by centuries, resulting in untold suffering. Mass-murderers, war-mongers, and child rapists have all justified their crimes in the name of Jesus.

And you call us criminals. How dare you, you arrogant, self-righteous prick.

FishNChips007's picture
Al, Did you even read what I

Al, Did you even read what I wrote?

I told you I would be twice dead if I got what I deserved. I therefore have no self-righteousness. I am a criminal who's debt has been paid.

I did not say you are a criminal because you don't believe in God. You are a criminal because of the lies you've told, because of the things you have stolen, because of your pride, because of your lust, because of the crimes you have committed against God.

You are the one who thinks you are a good person and have no such need for your debt to be paid. Likely, you think you have no debt at all.

Sounds pretty arrogant and self-righteous to me, Al. Furthermore, please see the above comment which addresses what you have accused Christians of.

Just because someone claims to be Christian does not mean they are. Someone who follows Christ will not murder, be a war-monger, or rape a child. A false-convert will do these things to further their own name. They care not for the name of Jesus.

You greatly err.

Sheldon's picture
FishNChips007 Al, Did you

FishNChips007 Al, Did you even read what I wrote?

Now that's a fucking irony overload, you never honestly address what people post.

FishNChips007 "Sounds pretty arrogant and self-righteous to me,"

Ahahahahahahahhahha, from the man who believes the entire universe and everything in it was created for one evolved species of ape he happens to belong to.

FishNChips007 "Just because someone claims to be Christian does not mean they are. Someone who follows Christ will not murder, be a war-monger, or rape a child."

Bullshit, and again this is a No True Scotsman Fallacy, and a spectacularly stupid one as well, as it is manifestly untrue, try reading the fucking bible ffs, the followers of the deity portrayed in there, and the deity, do nothing but commit murder. As for raping children it is endemic amongst the priesthood of the largest oldest christian church in the world ffs.

David Killens's picture
@ FishNChips007

@ FishNChips007

"You greatly err."

I suggest you educate yourself on the "no true Scotsman fallacy".

Because you are extremely guilty (I wonder what your god will do to you for being so dishonest) of this practice. With the many thousands of different christian denominations, you casually discard any christian group that disagrees with your own personal interpretation.

Nazism was a political religion, just like many US religions.

Cognostic's picture
@ Hey Fishy!!! RE: "I told

@ Hey Fishy!!! RE: "I told you I would be twice dead if I got what I deserved."

FINALLY!! We are all in fucking agreement.

'Your debt has been paid? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... you are fucking delusional." There are no get out of jail free cards. There are only assholes who pretend they have "get out of jail free" cards. You are personally responsible for all you do. LEARN TO FUCKING LIVE WITH IT! Your stupid fucking God does not get to forgive you for the asshole things you have done to others. GO FUCK YOURSELF.

ilovechloe's picture
Most christian movies and

Most christian movies and books arent created or written to convince atheists. They are created to convince existing christians, & those who were christians, who might have stopped going to church, but have never become an atheist.

Most christians start doubting their religion, so they constantly have to be spoonfed with this sort of rubbish to 'strengthen their faith', or to bring them 'back into the fold'.

I have never seen a convincing christian movie, or read a convincing christian book yet.

algebe's picture
iloechloe: I have never seen

iloechloe: I have never seen a convincing christian movie,

Apart from "Life of Brian" of course.

Calilasseia's picture
Actually, I'm reminded here

Actually, I'm reminded here of the fact that so much of the outpourings of Bible Belt Christianity in particular, can best be described as noisome dreck. Some of the offerings from this quarter are feculent and tacky, to an extent that writers of pulp fiction would be ashamed of if they descended to that level.

From the chintzy, schmaltzy faux-bucolic paintings of Thomas Kinkaid, and his desperate and failed attempt to be a Holman Hunt of the modern era, to the Left Behind Rapture Retard movies, there appears to be no level of dilettante condescension masquerading as pious sincerity, that the generators of this landfill fodder will refrain from descending to.

Then of course, you have creationist propaganda. Which add to the mix a weaselly duplicity that threatens to cross the line into actionable criminality, a line that may actually have been crossed in some of the output in question. Though actual prosecutions have had a habit of being pursued with respect to the even sleazier sidelines, that a good number of creationists have a habit of pursuing (see, for example, Hovind's tax evasion). It's noteworthy, for example, that Judge Jones, in his summation of the Dover Trial, presented therein at the very least, an implication that the creationists in the trial had committed perjury. If you're interested, that summation, and the trial transcripts, are available in full online, and are not hard to find.

Even if you never encounter the frankly glutinous and slimy brand of mendacity that is creationist propaganda, there's still plenty of entertainment to be found in "Christian" movies, which have a habit of being hilariously bad in the same manner as Battlefield Earth (that particular piece of cinematic botulism, of course, was rumoured to have dodgy Scientology money behind it).

One is tempted to ask if the same magic man allegedly responsible for inspiring the Sistine Chapel, York Minster, Chartres Cathedral, paintings by artists of the calibre of Michaelangelo, Botticelli, Bartolome Esteban Murillo, etc., and choral music by such exalted composers as Bach, Mozart, Handel and Beethoven (the latter's Missa Solemnis is universally regarded as a masterpiece), decide to take the piss on a grand scale when Americans decided to wed a peculiar mixture of robotic earnestness and thinly veiled bigotry to the business of religious adherence.

Though if you want a truly hilarious outing into the world of the Rapture Retards, look for a little known movie called Holocaust 2000 . I wrote comments elsewhere about this that I'll reprise here below.

Here we have a movie that had a lot of money lavished upon it, and not only to pay the acting fee for the big Hollywood name that was recruited to front it. This was an Italian production, resulting from a director who made rather more money than he should have by producing "pastaloid" versions of various Hollywood horror films such as The Exorcist and The Antichrist. Which should warn you in advance what is going to turn up here.

Basically, this film is a hilarious, and at times, slightly creepy film based upon the idea that the acid-trip hallucinations contained in the Book of Revelations is set to come about, courtesy of the son of a nuclear physicist. The part of the physicist is played by none other than Kirk Douglas (who presumably felt a pressing need to pay some big household bills and consequently signed up to take part in this hokum), and according to the plot, his son (played by Simon Ward) is the Antichrist, who is set to use a nuclear power plant based somewhere in the Middle East to unleash Armageddon. Cue wacky special effects including a computer going haywire as it displays 2√231 all over the monitor screen (purportedly a way of spelling "Jesus" backwards - how original), and various unpleasant deaths being meted out to various people who try to prevent the evil offspring from carrying out his master plan, one involving a Middle Eastern despot being decapitated by a helicopter rotor blade.

Despite the fact that the producers spent a lot of money on this film, it's a turkey. Why? Because when you look at it, it is manifestly obvious that it was tailor-made to tickle the erogenous zones of every Rapture Retard in existence. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if copies of this were in the VHS tape or DVD collections of every Rapturoid on the planet. What we have here is supernatural fuckwittery on a grand scale rendered in glorious Technicolor, with a plot line that couldn't have sucked the cock of Rapture fantasies harder if it tried.

While not as utterly coprolitic as some of the visual dreck pumped out by actual Rapturoids more recently, plot consistency is somewhere around the level of a collapsed soufflé, and there are several nice inconsistencies to look for by way of alternative entertainment, whilst enduring the spectacle of Douglas picking up a big pay check for providing the Revelations brigade with enough masturbation fodder to last them several dozen lifetimes. It's vintage cinematographic Gorgonzola, odoriferous to the last, and frankly I'm amazed that no one else has spotted this blatant attempt to cash in on the willingness of large numbers of gullible supernaturalists to give credence to a tract from mythology that was plainly the result of serious hallucinogen abuse. It's a mysticism acid trip on film that at times makes you wonder at the sanity of the human race, because any truly sane species would have treated this material as Monty Python fodder. If you pick this up, imagine Eric Idle in place of Kirk Douglas, John Cleese in place of Simon Ward, and enjoy much hilarity from the substitution, which would almost certainly have been far more enjoyable if it had happened for real.

If you find this weird part of Kirk Douglas' oeuvre on DVD at a car boot sale, snap it up for the 25 cents it'll cost you, and enjoy some weapons-grade cinematic Cheez Whiz. It's apocalyptic hokum of a particularly farcical brand, a catering sized helping of theological Velveeta in celluloid, for the sort of people whose combination of gullibility and egotism leads them to become walking ATMs for the likes of Kenneth Copeland.

Cognostic's picture
@ilovechloe: "I have never

@ilovechloe: "I have never seen a convincing christian movie, or read a convincing christian book yet."

Interesting; Most christian movies and books convince me that they are full of shit. I find them quite convincing of this.

I just spent a half hour watching that stupid video that was posted. "Evidence for God. " Half an hour in the idiot speaker was still attacking science and strawmanning atheists and at no time did he give an ounce of evidence for anything called God. I was totally convinced the man didn't have a leg to stand on and that he was a flipping idiot!

NewSkeptic's picture
The Fishie Method:

The Fishie Method:

1. Go find a Ray Comfort video
2. Go to an atheist website and reference said video, secure in your belief that said atheist website would have never considered the arguments in said video because its clear atheists are just mad at God and want to sin
3. Watch the arguments in said website completely destroyed and mocked
4. Hand wave away destruction, attempt to move the goalposts, evolution to abiogenesis
5. Have that fail as well, hand wave away again, check armpits for smell and staining
6. Preach the good word, all in love for the poor atheists.

edited due to great suggestion from WhiteDog

Whitefire13's picture


...add to #2

...”atheists” want to “sin”

NewSkeptic's picture
you are correct WhiteDog,

you are correct WhiteDog, that would be better, edited

NewSkeptic's picture
...and nothing like a new

...and nothing like a new sceptic, especially considering how foul smelling an old sceptic can be.

Sheldon's picture
Whitefire13 ".”atheists”

Whitefire13 ".”atheists” want to “sin”"

Now go, and sin some more....

Cognostic's picture
@Sin? What's that?

@Sin? What's that? hey! Rub my tummy again will ya? Please?

Whitefire13's picture
@anytime babbeeee

@anytime babbeeee

Excuse my “looks” ... I’ve been self isolating


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NewSkeptic's picture


You look HOT!!!! I see where you got your screen name.

(Not really buying the "13" part though, just sayin')

Grinseed's picture
@ FishNChips, a heartfelt

@ FishNChips, a heartfelt thank you for prompting Calilasseia to reveal more research references to add to my fine collection. You have done great work in spreading the most recent research in evolutionary biology. Can not thank you enough.

As for future preaching, I suggest instead you follow Jesus's advice, that you offer all of us here on AR a blessing then shake off the dust from your feet as you leave.

Tin-Man's picture
@Grin Re: To Fish Man - "As

@Grin Re: To Fish Man - "As for future preaching, I suggest instead you follow Jesus's advice, that you offer all of us here on AR a blessing then shake off the dust from your feet as you leave."

HEY!... Whoa-whoa-whao... Don't be so hasty in dismissing Brother Fisher-of-Men, Mr. Bird Brain. I didn't spend all day lining up a whole list of hymns for nothing, you know. I feel confident Brother Fish has many other fine sermons planned for us, and I am prepared to set each one of them to the appropriate background music that will allow us maximum soul-searching reflection. Besides, if you run him off now, we may ALL totally miss out on a truly life-changing experience.


Hey, I'm sticking my neck out on the line here for you, Brother. Don't go letting me down and leaving me out here hanging high and dry flopping in the wind all alone in the freezing cold without a pot to piss in wallowing in self-defeat with my back against the wall. I'm counting on you to save us from ourselves!


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