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@Fishy: And remember, True or False, Things go better with Coke. So why not join us at one of Tin's Eggnog parties and snort yourself a line or two? You have not really seen God until you have seen him high on cocaine!
"You simply have to trust what you've been told”.
Yair. At age 12, at the Catholic school I attended I asked one of the brothers the odd theological questions which confused me. Such as say the trinity.
When the question was complex, the answer would be "it's a mystery of faith, we just believe" I thought that was stupid answer at age 12 and still do.
Apologies for invoking Godwin's law: At the Nuremberg War trials after WW2, many defendants tried the defence was " I only following orders" .In other words "I just believed what I was told." That defence was rejected and set a precedent for the behaviour of soldiers in war ever since..
Having said that, I sympathise with Fishy a little. Imo ,religious belief is based on faith.( belief without evidence) One's religion is almost always*** purely an accident of birth. Religious beliefs and one's zeitgeist are formed by uncritically absorbed ing everything we are told by adults. It is my opinion that relatively few people ever seriously question those beliefs. THAT is why there are relatively few atheists in the world. As the fictional Dr Greg House famously said 'if you could reason with religious people there wouldn't be any"
From Fishy's posts, it's clear he has never honestly questioned his beliefs. I'm not surprised ;. To question one's most powerful beliefs is to question one's world view,.I think that is far too frightening for many people especially to those not naturally introspective.
At age 14 I made the observation that "God must truly love stupid people because he made so many of them." At that age I had not learned to distinguish between the simply unintelligent and the wilfully ignorant. I was also an obnoxious little prig .
Some of the apologists we get here still make it hard for me to tell the difference .
***the exception to that rule is that peculiar animal called the adult convert. I've only ever been able to conclude that such individuals must have some serious mental disorder . This opinion has only been reinforced by the few such people I've met.
Cranky...part of Fishy’s brain is struggling for something that is true otherwise he’d stick with his ilk in his echo chamber.
Fishy has a brain? Why? Hasn't everything been predetermined by God. If fishy had a brain he would be able to make a choice other than the one God had designed for him. Doing that would mean God did not actually have a plan. Unless of course it was part of Gods plan for fishy to make the choice he did. But that would mean fishy does not actually have free choice and God is lying to him. But then if god does not have a plan, god is lying to fishy while telling him that he does have a plan. NO WONDER POOR FISH BREATH IS CONFUSED.
FishNChips007: You cannot tell me, nor can you tell anyone else how life got here.
And you can't say "we don't know, therefore god".
"And you can't say "we don't know, therefore god".
I've always known. There are two parts to the truth : (1) 42. (2) Quite stupid Aliens from Alpha Centauri .
I don't think FishNlies is coming back is he? If he does I'll bet a year's wages he won't honestly address why his lie that scientists have falsified evolution, and that this has somehow been missed by every major global news network, the entire global scientific community, the Nobel committee, and even the catholic church.
I will add another year's wages that he won't offer an honest cogent explanation of why we can see the light from stars that are billions of light years away, if his new hero Ray Comfort is correct and the universe is just a few thousand years old?
I'd also like to know what "views" he is claiming I hold, and have asserted don't need faith? As all I did was point out his lie that anther poster needed faith to believe the scientific theory of evolution, which is clearly a lie, as the theory consists of over 160 years of objective scientific evidence collected globally, and the species evolution is an accepted scientific fact, and an the theory is considered valid by the global scientific community. So instead of acknowledging and withdrawing his lie, and his objection to being labelled dishonest he has added another lie.
Valid scientific theories do not require faith, they are the very antithesis of faith based myths like creationism. What's more, creationism would remain an unevidenced myth making unevidenced and inexplicable woo woo claims for magic, EVEN IF species evolution were entirely falsified. Something creatards are always keen to avoid acknowledging, as it is not a choice between current fact based science and their unevidenced creationist fantasy.
I would however bet a months wages he will continue to object to being labelled dishonest.
This is what RationalWiki has on Ray (banana man) Comfort:
So the very arguments FishNLies has rehashed here, quelle surprise.
It is clear that Ray Comfort knows little about science:
>He has no formal education in science, much less biology (or even theology).
>He constantly pipes up the old one liner: "there are no transitional fossils"
>Many of his anti-evolution arguments show a profound misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. The same goes for several other branches of science. For example, he doesn't seem to understand that according to modern scientific thought, the comets and the water came before life.
This part should be of particular interest to FishNLies.
Anyone that's enough for now, here's a link:
So FishNChips007, there you have Ray Comfort admitting himself not only that he is a liar, but that he thinks lying is justified if it's "for Jesus". Care to comment?
So a bare faced liar then.
But of course, he's not the only occupant of the world of professional creationist propagandising, who is also a lying sack of shit. They ALL are. Hovind, Ham, Dembski, and various lesser figures on the scene such as Rich Deem, are all demonstrably duplicitous liars for Republican Jeebus. Which is hardly surprising, given the facts in the public domain about Henry Morris, the founder of American corporate creationism, and the foundation by him of that enterprise as being grounded in egregious lies and bullshit.
Over a 12 year period, I've seen, and dealt with, lies and bullshit from all of them. These slimy little oxygen thieves would not recognise discoursive honesty if it drove an entire division of M1A2 Abrams main battle tanks over their testicles (funny how the corporate creationism business is run exclusively by men).
"A Fairy Tale for Grownups, he openly admitted in the introduction that he knew he was quote-mining but went ahead anyway because lying for Jesus is justifiable. "
The dickhead would probably have apoplexy if he knew that lying in extremis or even pretending to convert to another faith life are part of official Muslim doctrine.
@FishNChips007: Why don't you shoot him an email
Life's too short to waste time talking with Ray Comfort or any of the other smarmy money-grubbing evangelist clowns. I'm not sure whether his banana skit was dishonesty or ignorance or a mixture of both.
Why don't you shoot him...
Don't tempt me!
"cite>Why don't you shoot him...
Don't tempt me!" hadn't realised he's a Kiwi.
Aussies can't be smug; we have Ken Ham, the scholar associated with creationist museum.
Below a video clip of how some religious fruit cakes are handled in Aunty Adelaide .Too arrogant to get a permit.-----Australia has no Bill Of Rights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkeyqIX3nvw (1minute 31)
Preachers went to the high court and lost.
"I'm not sure whether his banana skit was dishonesty or ignorance or a mixture of both."
If you want to attract stupid flies who are willing to give you money, you cover yourself in stupid shit to attract them.
Alright everyone, It's been a while, but I do have some responses regarding some of the above comments you have posted. I will address those now.
Firstly, Ginseed, in your comment regarding the money changers, thank you for admitting that Jesus is, in fact, a historical figure. As far as the situation with the money changers, you are circling about the bushes, and not looking to see what sort of things lie within. You have overlooked the fact that they were taking advantage of people who were coming to worship The Lord. Some had traveled very long distances, and they were being charged needless high rates. This is why Jesus rightly called them out as the "den of thieves," that they were. There was nothing morally right about what they were doing.
Another issue I saw posted was that some of you seem to think that I have never questioned. You have no idea of my past, so making a claim that I have never questioned what I believe or that I do not have both logical and rational reasons to believe, is false and highly presumptuous. I once had secular views myself, until I learned that ultimately, you cannot escape the Truth.
Next issue: Can you send me a screenshot of where Ray Comfort, word for word, says, "It's okay to lie for Jesus?"
Clearly, this would be hypocrisy, which Ray has spoken against on several occasions. I think you are either misquoting him, or you yourselves are guilty of quote-mining.
Even if Ray Comfort did lie or show dishonesty, that would not change my faith in God Almighty. He is true and righteous, holy, and does not lie. He is perfect and rich in mercy. His love is true love. I don't just believe in Him, I know Him, and He knows me. My faith is in Him, not in Ray Comfort.
Next, I would like to address the blind anger problem most of you seem to have. All of your anger - ask yourself - why? You merely act as a bunch cephalopods purporting your putrid ink in an attempt to escape the Truth which threatens you.
How can you blame wars and violence on Christians? Maybe you never heard of the small hermit country of North Korea? Have you not heard of the terrible tortures its citizens endure under atheistic leadership?
What about the multitude of people who were killed under atheistic communism? Why do you not judge in this case?
If you are honest, then be consistent in all matters. You would do well to rid yourselves of your childish rhetoric, your mocking and your scoffing. Unbeknownst to most of you, you are on the team which aims to steal, kill, and destroy. God is not hidden from you, yet you suppress the truth in unrighteousness. All of your mocking and scoffing prevents you from opening your eyes and seeing what is really going on. After having considered this, apply it and go and study the Bombardier Beetle and ask yourself how could this creature possibly have evolved? Don't just take someone's word saying, "This beetle evolved," but ask yourself, "how," and be honest. Look at the creature, study its inner workings, and see whether evolution was possible for this creature. Be honest and do not suppress the truth.
Ultimately, it is likely that no amount of evidence will convince you, because you do not want to be convinced. If you admit that God is, then you will be morally accountable for even your inner thought-life. God sees all, even what is hidden from man. He is going to judge the world in righteousness, that is why I have warned you. Turn from your sin and entrust yourself to Jesus. Your sin will then have been dealt with and you will pass from death to life. He will make you a new creation, and the old will have passed away.
I have you the link already, so your biased denials and accusation are pretty pathetic if you can't be bothered to read what it says, and it references one of Ray Comforts own books as the source.
Then don't use Comfort's lies to prop up your superstition on here, as that is the very definition of hypocrisy.
So, basically, the same god of the gaps fallacy...as you have not taken the time to rationalize your position. Your failure in reason on this thread has become sad. It is sad when members of your own species are unable to rationalize basic concept due to significant cognitive dissonance...If it were not endemic of every religion, your failure in reason would be funny...but instead it has become depressing for atheists, which your inability has incorrectly accessed as anger. How sad is it when someones irrational personal beliefs contravene rational convention for supernatural bliss? That was a rhetorical question. When you come back here with actual valid objective information that evidences your woo woo self imposed magic fantasy, I will listen...but until that point, you are just sad. Hopefully, you will overcome your cognitive dissonance long enough to apply critical thought to your irrational belief...not likely, but I am always hopeful for humanity.
@Fishy Smell Re: "Ginseed, in your comment regarding the money changers, thank you for admitting that Jesus is, in fact, a historical figure."
Hey, roe brain, Grin never admitted anything of the sort. He was merely demonstrating the reality of what would have been required IF the story of Jesus and the money changers was true. As such, the absurdity of it defeats the whole ridiculous story on its own.... *tilting head to one side*... Hmmm... Reading comprehension really isn't your forte, is it?
Re: "You have overlooked the fact that they (money changers) were taking advantage of people who were coming to worship The Lord."
Well, shit. Another irony meter headed for the scrap yard... *defeated sigh*...
(Edited a couple of grammar flubs. I shouldn't type before having my morning coffee.)
@Filet of Fish Re: "Next, I would like to address the blind anger problem most of you seem to have."
Anger?... *puzzled look*... Who's angry, bro? Personally, I have too much fun on here to be angry. Especially with integrity-challenged guys like you. And I see it as a good thing that you are actually just a trolling little tadpole. For it would be a truly disturbing to think that you (or anybody) are genuinely as dense and ignorant as you pretend to be... *chuckle*...
“ Maybe you never heard of the small hermit country of North Korea? Have you not heard of the terrible tortures its citizens endure under atheistic leadership?”
It’s long and requires thinking:
Short and to the point “ Officially regarded as an omnipotent genius, he is worshipped like a god ”
“Cult of personality”...”unfalsifiable claims” - sounds more theist (but then again you don’t really read what an “atheist” writes)
Do you believe... N Korea has no Coronavirus; has cured “AIDS and Ebola”; can control the weather; Kimmy doesn’t shit...?
How do you determine “myth” from “fact”? Oh right - you just know by feeling your invisible dictator in the sky will judge and destroy all evil ones...
Atheist?!?! Fuck you! .... maybe Kimmy is atheist - I don’t know - BUT his people are theists, through and through.
Edited to add: Kimmy is a narcissistic sociopath (best case)/psychopath- a condition (genetic/trained who knows) thorough his family line because it works for his family line. The people respond like they should to survive in their environment. It’s complicated - but to keep it short and sweet I just addressed the whole N Korea is atheist claim (fuck me...stupid fucktard)
That’s empty rhetoric since you have failed to demonstrate any objective evidence for your beliefs, some of which are directly contradicted by known objective scientific facts, like species evolution.
Here then again..
I gave you that link already, so your biased denials and ad hominem accusations are pretty pathetic if you can't be bothered to read what it says, and it references one of Ray Comforts own books as the source.
Then don't use Comfort's lies to prop up your superstition on here, as that is the very definition of hypocrisy.
That’s a dishonest straw man, as no one on here claimed that wars and atrocities are only caused by Christians, or even theists, people were simply responding to your No True Scotsman fallacy lie that these acts could not be committed by Christians, and this has been explained to you, so your self-righteous dishonesty is manifest here again. As is your lack of interest in honest or rational debate.
Again this is a dishonest lie, as many posters including myself have addressed this, and unlike your lie that no christians can cause wars or atrocities, not one atheist here has ever claimed no atheist can cause such things.
You might want to read that back, and see if you can work out why it stinks of rank hypocrisy. That is besides it being an egregious lie of course, as there are large and longstanding bodies of research that show atheists are at least as moral as theists when compared on any level playing field.
Species evolution is an objective scientific fact, if you want to delude yourself it isn’t then two thoughts occur to me, YOU learn all there is to know about it, and then take your objections to a scientific forum where they belong, I shall scan the global news networks for news of your success. Secondly don’t ever make pretentious proclamations of your desire for, or possession of truth on here again, as it’s such a farcical lie it is quite nauseous.
Just to hammer the point that it is you who is dishonestly denying the truth here, not those who accept known scientific facts, I will illustrate your lying bias with a single question you keep ignoring…
How many scientific facts apart from species evolution do you deny, and how many of those in no way contradict any part of your superstitious religious beliefs?
You might think we’re all morons, but you’re wrong…
If you don’t want your vapid unevidenced superstitious claims mocked then don’t share them with people who are going to treat them with a critical open mind, and not the blinkered biased blind reverence you seem to have mastered, and think is a path to some esoteric truth that objective evidence can’t find.
Well a theist will have to post some objective evidence first, and you like all the rest have only posted the usual fallacious claims and arguments that deny scientific facts, and vapid rhetoric that outrages reason, and now this preaching sententious drivel.
Wrong again, if a deity exists and wants to sit in judgement on its created pets, then that would be the case irrespective of whether I know it exists or not. Either way this no more evidences a deity than the rest of your vapid preaching.
“Next, I would like to address the blind anger problem most of you seem to have. All of your anger - ask yourself - why?”
You’ve never seen me angry. Anger is a normal human emotion - not a weakness when expressed in proper context. Frustration, annoyance, irritation, are also emotions which may be rightly directed towards you as your self-deceit is woefully obvious. I do not get “angry” at Allah but some fuckin ISIS devotee - you bet I get angry.
“You merely act as a bunch cephalopods purporting your putrid ink...”
See pic below
“...in an attempt to escape the Truth which threatens you.“
Hey, you a Jehovah’s Witness?!?! Or studying?!?!? They’re the ones that have the “Truth”. I was raised in “the Truth”. I know you guys can’t door knock during this virus...
Oh look, it's scatter-gun assertion time, otherwise known as the Gish Gallop, after the duplicitous creationist practitioner of apologetics who deployed this mendacious practice before his welcome demise.
I'll simply deal with this tiresome assertion that creationists love to masturbate over:
I'm going to enjoy dealing with this one, not least because I'm an invertebrate zoologist, and familiar with such topics as insect phylogeny.
First of all, one of the chemical constituents of the discharge is a quinone compound, and numerous quinones have long been known to be secreted by beetles for the purpose of hardening the cuticle. Furthermore, hydrogen peroxide is synthesised by a wide range of organisms for various purposes, and peroxisomes in eukaryotic cells are present for, among other purposes, the breakdown of long chain fatty acids for metabolic purposes. Since these two chemicals are generated in the relevant taxa for other purposes, repurposing them for defensive means is entirely within the remit of evolution, and indeed, repurposing extant entities for new purposes has been a central development arising from evolution in many other instances.
The fun part being, of course, that the two chemicals in question, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide can be mixed without reacting. The reaction is actually triggered by two families of enzymes, one family being the catalases, the other family being the peroxidases, examples of which are also found pretty much throughout eukaryotic cells. Catalases are enzymes that decompose hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen, and which form part of the superoxide dismutase pathway found, once again, in virtually all eukaryote cells, and thus have an ancient origin. Peroxidases are also found in a wide range of eukaryotic cells, and again serve various metabolic functions in those cells - photosynthesis in plants and aerobic respiration are merely two functions utilising these enzymes. Co-opting these existing enzymes for the purpose is again well within the remit of evolution.
As for the physical structures, glands with external ducts for the purpose of secretion litter the biosphere. The gall bladder is an example thereof in humans, though one that secretes to an internal organ instead of the exterior of the organism, and ducted glands for secreting pheromones are pretty much ubiquitous in the insect world.
Now, hydroquinone on its own is capable of causing contact dermatitis in vertebrates, and so, secretion thereof on its own would constitute a useful defensive mechanism on its own. Hydrogen peroxide also has the ability to bleach skin and initiate contact dermatitis, so combining the two agents would be doubly effective as a defensive mechanism. So, a gland secreting hydroquinone first, followed by the addition of hydrogen peroxide to the mix, would be a first step in the evolution of the bombardier beetle. Adding a second chamber to the gland would constitute an elementary step, involving the co-opting of well-known regulatory genes such as the bmp, fgf and wnt families, all present throughout the Arthropods. This would then be followed by lining the second chamber with cells secreting the catalase and peroxidase enzymes, again an elementary step involving the same regulatory genes. Modification of the elytra, to generate the flanges of Coanda that are used for directing the resulting spray, would again be another elementary step involving the same set of regulatory genes.
Indeed, there are multiple lineages of bombardier beetle, and these lineages exhibit features indicative of the process having evolved step by step over time. For example, Metrius contractus lacks the flanges of Coanda, and produces a mist instead of a directed spray, while various members of the SubFamily Paussinae exhibit two-chambered glands, but do not produce an explosive secretion, instead simply ejecting the hydroquinone/peroxide mix without reacting them using enzymes. So we already have living examples of relevant intermediate stages.
But of course, the tendency of mythology fanboys to try and point to topics they've learned nothing about, as purported "gotchas" for actual science, is one of the more mirthful aspects of the relevant aetiology.
Cali ... cool
On my Facebook some poster put “ hydrogen peroxide” in front of a pic of a salt shaker and “advised” us to “gargle” with it to destroy the virus!
I was so confused. At first I mixed the two with the water then I thought hmmmm, better not chance it. Then I put hot water in a glass but thought do I really want to scald my throat? Hmmmm. So then I got a regular glass of water and started to gargle but I accidentally swallowed! Oh shit! I grabbed my blow drier - some politician advised blow-drying your inner-nose area...I started but my eyes started to get all dry and stuff (I forgot to close them first, my bad).
Fuckin science’s fault!!!! I wish they’d get their “facts” straight!