Richard Dawkins says maybe it is better if AGI replaces humans!

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ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Sapporo said:

Sapporo said:

ProgrammingGodJordan has the belief that he is infallible.

On the contrary, non-beliefism underlines that mistakes are to be anticipated.

Sapporo's picture
If you are capable of making

If you are capable of making mistakes, then you have beliefs rather than true knowledge.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Quite the best thread..

Quite the best thread...Loving it! Fucking hilarious, I wish I could have been this funny when I was writing!. It like an extended episode of Big Bang Theory, mixed with QI and rounded off "Are You Being Served" absolutely fabulous.

Tin-Man's picture
I'm getting dizzy and my

I'm getting dizzy and my tummy feels funny. Mmph!.... Gonna hurl!....

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Old man shouts said:

Old man shouts said:

Quite the best thread...Loving it! Fucking hilarious, I wish I could have been this funny when I was writing!. It like an extended episode of Big Bang Theory, mixed with QI and rounded off "Are You Being Served" absolutely fabulous.

Yes, Sheldon is certainly being "served".

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@PGJ

@PGJ

Are you really are incapable of a self critical examination ? No don't answer that. It was such delicious irony.
That's what makes this thread so deliciously, outrageously funny.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Old man shouts said:

Old man shouts said:

@PGJ

Are you really are incapable of a self critical examination ? No don't answer that. It was such delicious irony.
That's what makes this thread so deliciously, outrageously funny.

1.) So you still feel as if Sheldon's remarks are correct.

2.) Such is belief's design; as a person who had long adopted belief, you ironically find it "deliciously funny" and comforting that somebody here (namely Sheldon) likewise fails to detect that belief generally facilitates that evidence is ignored.

3.) Notably, I don't subscribe to holding on to errors (no matter how long those errors had brewed) and so I had come to invent "non-beliefism".
I have no motivation to attach myself to errors, as you are demonstrating to do!

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@PGJ

@PGJ

"So you still feel as if Sheldon's remarks are correct."

I didn't say that at all in any comment. But it makes Sheldon's comments on your mendacity ring true.

"Such is belief's design; as a person who had long adopted belief, you ironically find it "deliciously funny" and comforting that somebody here (namely Sheldon) likewise fails to detect that belief generally facilitates that evidence is ignored."

I didn't say or imply that either, But your word salad is very entertaining.

"I have no motivation to attach myself to errors, as you are demonstrating to do!"

You have demonstrated a convincing lack of knowledge about me, my philosophy, and, convincingly confirmed your own insufferable arrogance. I tips me 'at to yez. You make Breezy Wheezy look positively straightforward.

I'm going back to shouting at the Ref from the sidelines.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Old man shouts ...said:

Old man shouts ...said:

@PGJ

"So you still feel as if Sheldon's remarks are correct."

I didn't say that at all in any comment. But it makes Sheldon's comments on your mendacity ring true.

"Such is belief's design; as a person who had long adopted belief, you ironically find it "deliciously funny" and comforting that somebody here (namely Sheldon) likewise fails to detect that belief generally facilitates that evidence is ignored."

I didn't say or imply that either, But your word salad is very entertaining.

"I have no motivation to attach myself to errors, as you are demonstrating to do!"

You have demonstrated a convincing lack of knowledge about me, my philosophy, and, convincingly confirmed your own insufferable arrogance. I tips me 'at to yez. You make Breezy Wheezy look positively straightforward.

I'm going back to shouting at the Ref from the sidelines.

1.) Your prior expressions show that you don't disregard Sheldon's remarks.

2.) You clearly avoided criticizing Sheldon's remarks, and instead inquired about my ability to self-examine errors, as Sheldon likewise (however falsely) underlined.

3.) As a result, my prior expressions regarding your behaviour obtain.

4.) Come, that you disagree with my expressions, does not suddenly warrant them to be "word salad" aligned. Otherwise, are you a native/fluent English speaker?

Sheldon's picture
ProgrammingGodJordan said: "

ProgrammingGodJordan said: " I don't subscribe to holding on to errors"

Oh I think I just squeezed out a little piss laughing.

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ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
"1.) How typical of the

"1.) How typical of the believer (I am referring to you). He or she identifies something that may align with his/her opinion, and stops there, not searching for opposing evidence."

It was you (not me) who cited it as supporting your beliefs you clown. You are a believer, all humans are, that's what the article you linked is saying. You linked the article which utterly refutes your bullshit, all I did was cite this, I never claimed it supported any position I am taking, so that last part is hilarious given it was you who pasted the link claiming it supported your bullshit when it utterly refuted it, and it was you who had ignored this.
--------------------------------
2.) Wrt to those introductory descriptions you cited, article also went on to say:

Article said:
"There is, for example, no philosophical consensus on what belief is (McKay and Dennett, 2009) or even what constitutes a delusion (Spitzer, 1990; David, 1999; Coltheart, 2007)."

care to show a post of mine claiming otherwise? Or why this alters the other research that shows how essential beliefs are to our cognitive functions interacting with the world? This is priceless now.
-------------------------------------------------------
3.) Beyond the above, the article went on to say:....Advice: You ought to read beyond the introduction!"

Nothing I quoted was from the introduction you clown. Straw man again as well, as at no point have I said that beliefs have to be true, are you really this thick?

One last time as simply as it's possible to put it:

I ACCEPT THAT BELIEFS CAN BE BOTH PROPERLY AND IMPROPERLY EVIDENCED.

Why you keep lying about this is bizarre?

1.) I have no beliefs.

2.) I didn't tell any such lie; it is rather clear that you constrain belief to be merely evidenced based, such that the concept is supposedly not science opposing. (Note that your providing the definition does not alter the outcome that you falsely rank the concept of belief to be not generally science opposing!)

3.) Here's a simple question: Why do you refuse to accept that the concept of belief is generally science opposing?

Sheldon's picture
ProgrammingGodJordan

ProgrammingGodJordan

"1.) I have no beliefs."

Do you believe this statement is true or false?

"3.) Here's a simple question: Why do you refuse to accept that the concept of belief is generally science opposing?"

I don't, I simply don't accept your selection bias to use this fact about some beliefs to make the moronic assertion that humans should abandon all beliefs, which is impossible anyway. I know you think your idea is profound and ingenious, but it's not sorry, it's moronic. Beliefs are an essential part of our cognitive ability to interact with reality.. Again this was stated by several authors in the article that you yourself linked if you had bothered to read it.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Sheldon said:

Sheldon said:

"1.) In toddler like words: Experiments (as cited prior) show that belief generally facilitates ignorance if evidence."

That link is just to an earlier post, the link in that is to an article that utterly refutes your claims. The article also says plainly more than once BELIEFS CAN BE HELD WITH OR WITHOUT PROPER EVIDENCE.

"2.) As cited by Sheldon, dictionary reflects what I had initially underlined, that belief generally facilitates ignorance of evidence."

Beliefs can be both evidenced and unevidenced, seeemples. So what?

1.) How is a model that *generally facilitates that evidence is ignored*, supposedly compatible with a model that *generally facilitates that evidence is not ignored*?

2.) The article does not "refute" what I underline in non-beliefism. Notably, the article does not mention that belief is essential!

Sheldon's picture
ProgrammingGodJordan " The

ProgrammingGodJordan " The article does not "refute" what I underline in non-beliefism. Notably, the article does not mention that belief is essential!"

"Although obvious, beliefs are significant because they are held by us to be true and provide the basis for us to understand the world and act within it (Halligan, 2006)"

"The high degree of consistency in defining beliefs in the general community is both reassuring and informative. It also supports the need for belief or a belief-like construct when accounting for how we interact with the world and each other."

"“Every action that we take is grounded in an elaborate web of beliefs and goals. Take the simple act of opening a door. Such an act depends on our beliefs about what lies beyond the door, as well as what is available to us in our current location. At an even more basic level, our attempt to open the door is rooted in a belief that we understand how a door works, and are capable of using it. Furthermore, without the goal of pursuing something beyond the door, the act of opening the door would probably not take place.”"

"Second, as a stable representation, beliefs provide an explanatory framework for interpreting the world and processing incoming information. "

"The degree of coherence between beliefs also has implications for interpreting and studying individual beliefs in isolation. A particular belief, for example, may entail a number of similar beliefs on related topics. Indeed, some philosophers have argued that beliefs can only be understood by relating them to a background of other beliefs and desires (referred to here as a holistic account; Davidson, 1973, 1984)."

ALL FROM THAT LINKED ARTICLE.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Utter bollocks again by you!

Utter bollocks again by you!

The paper states it's not a comprehensive theoretical model, you dumb shit.

And another hint, is any paper you've cited peer reviewed?

Fraud!

1.) Expletives don't suddenly guarantee correctness!

2.) Quote from paper:

Article said:

"We acknowledge, however, that there are a number of challenges to investigating belief and developing a ***more comprehensive*** theoretical model"

3.) In reality, an aim to be "more comprehensive" doesn't suddenly mean that the thing in question isn't comprehensive at all!

4.) Another reference in "Research/Peer review": A cognitive account of belief: a tentative road map.

Sheldon's picture
"1.) Expletives don't

"1.) Expletives don't suddenly guarantee correctness!"

Neither does your dishonest quote mining here. The quote is talking about studying how beliefs are formed in order to better understand why humans form delusional or inaccurate beliefs. Nowhere in the article does it offer one single word in support of the asinine idea humans can exist without any beliefs. As I said you either have not read it, or at the very least have partially read it and not understood it.

I have challenged you to show one single word from that article that supports your claim we can remove all human belief and still function. You have quote mined texts that simply state that some beliefs are erroneous - so the very dentition of a straw man argument. Meanwhile and in stark contrast to this, I have repeatedly quoted several of the authors stating plainly that forming beliefs is an essential component of the human cognitive ability to function and interact with the world.

HERE IS ONE SALIENT EXTRACT AGAIN...

(Tullett et al., 2011, 2013). As Tullett et al. (2013, p. 401) note:

“Every action that we take is grounded in an elaborate web of beliefs and goals. Take the simple act of opening a door. Such an act depends on our beliefs about what lies beyond the door, as well as what is available to us in our current location. At an even more basic level, our attempt to open the door is rooted in a belief that we understand how a door works, and are capable of using it. Furthermore, *****without the goal of pursuing something beyond the door, the act of opening the door would probably not take place.”****

It's sad you don't fathom what this means for your idea, but others will read and understand this.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Sheldon said:

Sheldon said:

He's delusional, utterly delusional. I am really thinking the Dunning Kruger effect now, it all fits. He's linking articles as scientific validation, when they roundly refute his claims, then accuses me of quote mining them ffs. Then because one small paragraph said there is currently no philosophical consensus on what beliefs actually are, he tried to claim this made my use of the rest biased, when again he was the one who linked the article not me. On top of which the bit he quoted hardly supports his bullshit idea all humans should somehow expunge the ability to form beliefs from their cognitive ability. Please note he has yet to suggest how we might even achieve this, or what it might mean given the article he linked states plainly that our cognitive ability to to form beliefs form an essential component of how we function in the real world.

If he has a degree I'm frankly stunned, what that says about the university that he attained it from can be nothing good. How can anyone spend 4 years in higher education and so completely lack the ability for any critical thinking.

1.) The article does not "refute" what is underlined in "non-beliefism".

2.) Notably, the article does not express that beliefs are "essential".

3.) Could you cite where you supposedly found that beliefs are "essential" from the article? Or perhaps you sillily confused "we do things grounded in belief.." with the expression not present in the article "we must believe"?

3.b) That society is grounded in belief is an "old hat"; a large point of the article is that belief generally occurs such that evidence is ignored, and that belief generally facilitates that people tend to twist new evidence to suit old false beliefs. Is it then essential that we don't correctly update our expressions?

4.) "Non-beliefism" rather than not, underlines that we may simply avoid the concept of belief, by generally being keen on evidence.

5.) Not surprisingly, others on this forum have trivially consumed the nonsense that has escaped your mind. Such is belief's embarrassing design.

6.) If you had devoted more thought cycles to the topic at hand, rather than "ad-hominem" attacks wrt my place of schooling, you would probably not have messed up your analysis!

Sheldon's picture
ProgrammingGodJordan "The

ProgrammingGodJordan "The article does not "refute" what is underlined in "non-beliefism". Notably, the article does not express that beliefs are "essential". Could you cite where you supposedly found that beliefs are "essential" from the article?"

FROM THE ARTICLE AGAIN THEN

(Tullett et al., 2011, 2013). As Tullett et al. (2013, p. 401) note:

“Every action that we take is grounded in an elaborate web of beliefs and goals. Take the simple act of opening a door. Such an act depends on our beliefs about what lies beyond the door, as well as what is available to us in our current location. At an even more basic level, our attempt to open the door is rooted in a belief that we understand how a door works, and are capable of using it. Furthermore, without the goal of pursuing something beyond the door, the act of opening the door would probably not take place.”

Sheldon's picture
ProgrammingGodJordan ""Non

ProgrammingGodJordan ""Non-beliefism" rather than not, underlines that we may simply avoid the concept of belief, by generally being keen on evidence."

>>>Belief formation is an essential part of the process of evaluating the truth of ideas and claims, it's in the article you linked.

ProgrammingGodJordan "Not surprisingly, others on this forum have trivially consumed the nonsense that has escaped your mind. Such is belief's embarrassing design."

>>>Yes we all see that you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, hence this desperate rationalisation to try and understand why your ideas have been rejected. Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?

ProgrammingGodJordan "If you had devoted more thought cycles to the topic at hand, rather than "ad-hominem" attacks wrt my place of schooling, you would probably not have messed up your analysis!"

>>You have relentlessly resorted to personal insult, not just in this discourse to me, but to everyone who has been unwise enough to engage with you on any topic. Physician heal thyself. if you don;t want ad hominem then donlt instigate it, and show some integrity and a little humility.

Here's a test for you, go to another forum, use a different name gently start to interact with other posters. If you get a very different reaction to your ideas please do come back and link the discourse.

Randomhero1982's picture
You are fucking priceless!

You are fucking priceless! Never change, your hysterical! It's like talking to a flat earther.

Your reply to old man by the way was more evidence of a straw man fallacy.

Then you use 'ad-hominem' in your last post despite you saying you dont subscribe to fallacies.

*CLAPS* Well done, truly well played sir!

I think we should all give the muppet a round of applause for managing to string out yet another long winded bullshit thread about a belief he has in the coherency of non-beliefism.

All whilst hysterically not realising that the papers authors even state it is not a comprehensive model and it's not even peer reviewed nor is it a scientific theory supported by the vast bulk of evidence.

Just like the other nuggets of dog shit he posted about AGI and his Supersymmetry model.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Right, it is science terms

Right, it is science terms golash. Just pick out some juicy sound science terms and throw em in a stew; then claim the resulting mess must be science!

Sheldon's picture
If he is a fraud then I

If he is a fraud then I genuinely believe he is unaware of it, and that's desperately sad.

Sheldon's picture
The high point for me was

The high point for me was when ProgrammingGodJordan claimed he never holds on to errors. I think I've injured myself laughing.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Sheldon said:

Sheldon said:

If he is a fraud then I genuinely believe he is unaware of it, and that's desperately sad.

.............

The high point for me was when ProgrammingGodJordan claimed he never holds on to errors. I think I've injured myself laughing.

1.) Your issue is that you sillily confused "we do things grounded in belief.." with the expression not present in the article "we must believe"?

2.) That society is grounded in belief is an "old hat"; a large point of the article is that belief generally occurs such that evidence is ignored, and that belief generally facilitates that people tend to twist new evidence to suit old false beliefs. Is it then essential that we don't correctly update our expressions?

Notably, no where in the article specifies that belief is a must!!

Randomhero1982's picture
"Also, make a note of the

"Also, make a note of the word gobbledygook, I like it, I want to use it more often in conversation!" - General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett, VC KCB.

CyberLN's picture
PGJ, you have linked to this

PGJ, you have linked to this website of yours approximately 25 times in this string alone. Seems a real possibility that the only reason you’re doing it is to build up traffic on your sight. Hmmmm...

You need to stop. It’s too much self-promotion in my book.

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
CyberLN said:

CyberLN said:

PGJ, you have linked to this website of yours approximately 25 times in this string alone. Seems a real possibility that the only reason you’re doing it is to build up traffic on your sight. Hmmmm...

You need to stop. It’s too much self-promotion in my book.

I tend to repeatedly provide URLs for the convenience of others. Another example is when I repeatedly linked to AGI/ASI in another thread. (Which you chose to ignore)

CyberLN's picture
You need to stop linking to

You need to stop linking to your own sites or I will ban you. It reeks of self promotion. Stop immediately.

Randomhero1982's picture
Because it's bollocks

Because it's bollocks

ProgrammingGodJordan's picture
Sheldon said:

Nyarlatothep said:

Right, it is science terms golash. Just pick out some juicy sound science terms and throw em in a stew; then claim the resulting mess must be science!

This quote may apply:

ProgrammingGodJordan said:

1.) It is no surprise that some people without PhD's or Masters will find my model strange. However, from my interactions, professors or PhD holders, tend to find my model straight forward.

2.) Sample discussions with PhD Holders:

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