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"Ghosts, like deities seem to be shy of crowds daylight and public places, but most of all they shy away from leaving unequivocal evidence"
or they just don't exist....
if people can really talk to ghost..we'll be having investigators get off their desk and lose their job...
isn't that great? knowing exactly what happen coz the ghost is portraying his/her own death..and pin pointing the murderer...
but its not...all fake, psychic bullshit..
@JoC
What would constitute evidence that god, gods, God or Gods exist?
Proof.
What is proof?
I believe that, if its a supernatural entity we're talking about - would be something they would be able to clearly define that would eliminate all questions about their claims of divinity.
I don't need to come up with what a divine being needs to do to prove they are divine - they need to prove divinity beyond question without my ability to challenge the evidence. Who better to decide what that is but the being claiming divinity?
Why do you ask me to come up with a human test for a divine entity?
If your god or any divine entity exists - I challenge it to prove it now.
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If you don't prove it now, you don't exist, are not real, and atheists are right - there is no such thing as a divine being, never has been and never will be - so, prove it, now. If you have one micron of love in your being - prove it now.
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Done. Argument solved.
Atheist's win.
Lol. This has got to be the weakest argument ever. It’s like a theist saying the same thing except saying,
“If God exists, this ball that I’ll throw up into the air will fall back down!”
*throws ball. Ball falls back down.
“Aha!”
No it isn't, that's a silly comparison, we have evidence for gravity so we know how a thrown ball will be affected by it. We have no evidence for any deities, we know for an absolute fact that humans create fictional deities, and your deity has no objective evidence for it at all, like all the others.
If your deity genuinely cares what I believe then it knows what it will take for me to accept it is real, yet it hides from me, and according to you will torture me forever as a consequence. That would be one sadistic deity if it were real. Luckily there is no more evidence for it than Thor.
Lol. This has got to be the weakest argument ever. It’s like a theist saying the same thing except saying,
“If God exists, this ball that I’ll throw up into the air will fall back down!”
*throws ball. Ball falls back down.
“Aha!”
The first question ask to the atheist is that suppose there is an equipment, there is a machinery which no one in the world has ever seen before if it's brought in front of you [atheist] and if we ask the question to him that who will be the first person, who will be able to tell you the mechanism of this machinery or this object ?
The light of the Moon is it its own light or reflected light?
So the atheist will tell us, previously we thought the Moon has its own light. Recently we come to know in science. Recently means 100 years back, 200 years back, we have come to know that the light of the Moon is not its own light but a reflected light.
The Quran mentions 1400 years ago in Surah Al-Furqan [Chapter 25], Verse 61. That “Blessed is He who had placed the constellation in the skies and placed therein a lamp [a Sun] having its own light and the Moon having reflected light or borrowed light.” The Arabic word used for moonlight in the Quran is ‘Muneer or Noor’ meaning reflected light or borrowed light.
Who could have mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago? That the light of the Moon is not its own light but reflected light. ?
The atheist may say, your prophet Muhammad [pbuh] maybe an intelligent man.
(Don't argue with him, continue…)
What's the shape of this Earth on which we live?
The atheist will tell you. It's spherical.
When did we come to know ?
So he will tell us, it was 1597, Sir Francis Drake when he sail around the Earth that he proved that the Earth was spherical.
But the Quran says 1400 years ago in Surah An-Nazi'at [Chapter 79], Verse 30 “Thereafter we have made the Earth egg shaped”. The Arabic word 'Dhahaha' one of its meaning is The Earth is an expanse, the other meaning is arrived from the Arabic word 'Dhuiyah'. Which means an egg and it doesn't refer to a normal egg. It refers to the egg of an Ostrich and we know the world is not completely round like a ball but it is Geospherical in shape.
Who could have mentioned 1400 years ago that the shape of the Earth is geospherical ?
Again the atheist may say you know your Prophet [pbuh] super intelligent.
(Don't argue with him. You can continue…)
When I was in school, I had learned the Sun was stationery it revolved, but it did not rotate about its own axis.
So they atheist may say, Is that mention in Quran?
I say No, what I learned in school. I had learned the Sun was stationery, did not rotate about its own axis.
But the Quran says in Surah Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], Verse 33 “It is Allah who has created the night and day, the Sun and the Moon, each one traveling in orbit with own motion.”
So the Quran says that besides the Sun revolving it even rotates about its own axis.
Who could have mentioned this in the Quran 1400 years ago ?
So the atheist will be silent! (Don't wait for the reply, you can continue…).
Today science tells us that the universe is expanding. Which is mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago in Surah Adh-Dhariyat [Chapter 51], Verse 47.
The Quran speaks about the water cycle which we learn in school. It was Bernard Palissy in 1580, who first described the water cycle. How does the water evaporate from the ocean, Forms into clouds, moves into the interior and falls down as rain.
This water cycle spoken about in great detail in the Quran in several verses.
In Surah Az-Zumar [Chapter 39], Verse 21. In Surah Ar-Rum [Chapter 30], Verse 24. In Surah Al-Hijr [Chapter 15], Verse 22. In Surah Al-Mu'minun [Chapter 23], Verse 18. In Surah An-Nur [Chapter 24], Verse 43. In Surah Ruum [Chapter 30], Verse 48. In Surah Ahraf [Chapter 7], Verse 17. In Surah Furkhaan [Chapter 25], Verse 48-49. In Surah Fathir [Chapter 35], Verse 09. In Surah Yaseen [Chapter 36], Verse 34. In Surah Mulk [Chapter 67], Verse 30. In Surah Thariq [Chapter 86], Verse 11.
There are hundreds verse in the Quran which only speaks about the water cycle which science has discovered r recently [in this centuries].
We can keep on talking…
Today we have come to know that the plants have got sex. Which we did not know earlier.
Quran says in Surah Ta-ha [Chapter 20], Verse 53, that the plants gave got sexes male and female.
Today we have come to know that there two types of water. Sweet and salty and there is a barrier between them.
Which is mention in Quran in Surah Al-Furqan [Chapter 25], Verse 53 and Surah Ar-Rahman [Chapter 55], Verse 17 and 18 “It is Allah who has let free two types of flowing water though they meet they not mixed, there is a barrier between them.”
Today science tells us that it is the mountains which prevent the Earth from shaking.
Which is mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago in Surah An-Naba [Chapter 78], Verse 6 and 7.
The Quran speaks about Biology that 'We have created every living creature from water”. In Surah Al-Anbiya [Chapter 21], Verse 30. Quran mentions this 1400 years ago.
Quran speaks about Zoology about the life style of the spider in Surah Al-Ankabut [Chapter 29], Verse 41.
About the Ant in Surah An-Naml [Chapter 27], Verse 17-18.
About the Bee in Surah An-Nahl [Chapter 16], Verse 66, 68, 69.
Quran speaks about Embryology in Surah Al-Alaq [Chapter 96], Verse 1 and 2, “We have created the human been from Alakah [a leach like substance].” Which we have come to know recently.
Quran speaks about Embryological stages in Surah Al-Mu'minun [Chapter 23], Verse 12–14.
You can go on talking about the scientific points. There are more than 1000 verses in the Quran which speaks about science. After every scientific fact, you ask the question.
WHO COULD HAVE MENTIONED IN THE QURAN [1400 YEARS AGO] ?
The only reply the atheist can give you is “The Creator, The Manufacturer, The Inventor, The Producer”.
“This Creator, This Manufacturer, This Inventor, This Producer”.
WE MUSLIMS CALL HIM ‘ALLAH’.
http://islamiclecturespdf.blogspot.com/2016/02/does-god-exist-by-dr-zaki...
Tasnim Mohammed,
Mohammed thought that when the Sun went below the horizon that it went into a muddy pond. He's not the best guy to teach scientific facts.
Your deity is as much of a fiction s all the others, and like JoC's catholic deity you can't demonstrate a shred of objective evidence for it. Quoting an old book proves nothing supernatural. You know nothing about atheists at all, and your constant straw man claims are tedious and disrespectful.
I think you’re falling into the trap that some Christians have fallen into of using a religious text to teach scientific facts.
The Quran is a religious text. Treat it as such.
I'm sorry to say this but it is the truth as always
Say to those who do not believe, ‘Do whatever you can: we too are doing what we can,’
and ‘Wait: we too are waiting.’ 11:121-122
The light of the Moon is it its own light or reflected light?
So the atheist will tell us, previously we thought the Moon has its own light. Recently we come to know in science. Recently means 100 years back, 200 years back, we have come to know that the light of the Moon is not its own light but a reflected light.
The Quran mentions 1400 years ago in Surah Al-Furqan [Chapter 25], Verse 61. That “Blessed is He who had placed the constellation in the skies and placed therein a lamp [a Sun] having its own light and the Moon having reflected light or borrowed light.” The Arabic word used for moonlight in the Quran is ‘Muneer or Noor’ meaning reflected light or borrowed light.
Who could have mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago? That the light of the Moon is not its own light but reflected light. ?
Compare it logically.
Muhammad pbuh never spoke by his own but what God said.
It is He who released the two bodies of flowing water, one sweet and fresh and the other salty and bitter, and put an insurmountable barrier between them. 25:53
READ QURAN it will open your heart and mind indeed it is a healing and solution to ALL of your problems!!!
As strange as it might be my dear brother/sister READ and call 877-whyislam and bring ALL the questions you came up. Glad to hear from you with respect.
Anaxagoras knew more than a 1000 years before Islam that the light of the Moon was reflected light. Indeed, anyone who had ever witnessed a lunar eclipse would have known this.
Stop with the spamming, and preaching you'll get yourself banned.
"Who could have mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago?"
That's absurdly silly, it's also argumentum ad ignorantiam, look that up and see if you can muster enough objectivity to admit your argument is as fallacious as it is absurd.
Brother @joc if you believe in God then check this out
https://youtu.be/3c1tATNXuYE .
Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
Quran Chapter 3 verse 64
If you have further questions after checking that out please don't hesitate to let me know.
Tasnim Mohammed,
"Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
Quran Chapter 3 verse 64"
Suppose I could gain an additional 50 years of life in good health and financial security by becoming a muslim or else I would be tossed in a cage with stinking hungry zombies. I would take the zombies because, while they would tear me from limb to limb and eat me while I'm still alive it would all be over in a minute. Whereas if I became a muslim my life would be a living hell every day for the next 50 years. So I would save myself over 26,280,000 minutes of hell by being eaten by the zombies.
The burden of proof for any divine entity, god, ghost, spirit, etc. is not upon man but upon the entity.
There is no proof of any god - therefore, there is no god.
Attribution is not proof meaning - you can't fill in the gaps like "where did matter come from?" with comments like "god" because you can't prove the existence of said god. This is called the "god of the gaps" argument. Doesn't work.
You can't prove god's existence by words written in a book... nope, doesn't work.
You can't prove god's existence by repeating stories heard by others who repeated stories heard by people who made up those stories without any - PROOF.
God and you have the burden of proof - we don't have to prove god doesn't exist - there is no evidence suggesting he/she/it does. You have to provide evidence, credible evidence, your god exists.
All you do is shake your heads "no," quote your fictional book, claim you are correct, advertise your Islam website and stir up even more hatred for your religion and ignorance with your failure to reason, think, or show one measure of evidence.
Again, we don't have to prove anything - you have to prove god exists. Go ahead - give it a try, let's see what you have that can prove the existence of god, fairies, ghosts, spirits or any other imagination of man.
Stop quoting that stupid comic book and worshipping your silly shepherd... grow some balls and get with the program - this isn't a proselytizing forum, it's a forum about truth for those of us who enjoy talking about reality, not fictions.
I do not have respect for you... your ignorance is overwhelming and your arguments from a book nobody respects. What makes you feel we owe you respect? Why do you say things like "Glad to hear from you with respect" when you clearly do not respect us, our perspectives or our rights?
Get a life and go play in your own sandbox with those of your own thinking - I'm sure you can find enough people in your own group you want to stone and control with your own versions of your own bullshit... but, quit pretending you are here for any kind of intellectual stimulation or truth - we could literally hand it to you on a silver platter and you'd simply shit in the platter.
Play with the Christians or something... you are as annoying as a broken record or a gnat... of little value or consequence.
Logical proof
https://youtu.be/9Ur8MY3fRR4
Check them out!
https://youtu.be/GnTJkcL0j7c
Got more questions call 877 whyislam or join online forum and post your questions
http://forum.whyislam.org/default.asp
This appears to be self-promotion.
Nothing promotion but invitation to discussion and argument.
Tasnim Mohammed,
Suppose you could get the best after life you can imagine without being a muslim. Would you then renounce Islam? After all, you really don't know that Islam is real. It could all be a lie.
I can't say what it would take to make believe in a god, because I don't know what a god is.
No Christian, Jew, or Muslim has a clue about what god is, even though many are willing to kill or die for their version of it. No preacher, priest, imam, or rabbi understands the god concept, but they're happy to keep milking the fantasy for money, power, and sex. Authors of weighty tomes on theology don't understand what god is. If they did, there would be no disputes and conflicts over religious beliefs.
People try to define god with adjectives like "immortal" and "omnipotent", but these concepts are meaningless to the human mind. We certainly can't apply them to any kind of proof.
How can there ever be proof of such as a vague and contradictory thing? The question we should really be asking why billions of people still shape their lives around a fantasy that not one person can define or understand.
If you were to TRULY think about it, and I mean apply logic, rationality, reasoning, deduction, cogitation, critical thinking, then you would truly realize that "eternal life" is a fate worse than Hell or Death.
Just, really think about living for eternity with no end.
Then watch "Death Wish" - Star Trek: Voyager, Season 2, Episode 18.
rmfr
If I said I was omnipotent, how would a Christian prove it false?
I have an invisible, insubstantial elf living in my closet who is named Laergul Calemirphen. And she has some damned good ideas...
Prove me wrong.
rmfr
@algebe
The fact for us to prove God to you how we know Him. We never saw God.
Imagine talking g about evolution of human being. How we evolved from apes to who we are today. Did we see the evolution? But rather you prove your argument by saying that there is evidence. Right. Those who believe in God prove their points logically by the different kinds of creations in this world.
@Tasnim Mohammed: Those who believe in God prove their points logically by the different kinds of creations in this world.
What "different kinds of creations" are there in this world that could only have been created by your god? We can get evidence for evolution from paleontology, taxonomy, and genetics. Which sciences provide evidence for the existence of god?
Those who argue for the existence of god, God, gods, universal conciousness, ghosts, spirits, fairies, etc. NEED these things to have a meaning. To them, life without their fictions is meaningless because they've drank the water and now need it to survive.
Imagine you are born in a muslim family - you are raised a muslim by your family.
Imagine you are raised a christian family - you are raised a christian by your family.
Imagine you are raised a sikh - you teach your family sikhism
Imagine you are born into a hindu family - you will be raised in the hindu faith
Let's not forget Shinto - born into a shinto family, raised shinto.
Buddhism - born into a buddhist family, raised buddhist.
Born into a nature loving wiccan family - raised wiccan
This doesn't include the myriad of other religions or sects of those religions. Truth is, you are raised whatever your family teaches you, whatever your community espouses, whatever you are forced to believe - wtihout options and, in most cases, without being allowed the opportunity to question anything, study anything else, research all faiths and beliefs and science or anything else - you are raised into the faith or belief you are born, until you decide to ask questions, examine your faith, study all faiths, history, science - honestly, with an open mind.
At that time, you begin to see EVIDENCE that perhaps you haven't been told the truth but only A BELIEF that is ACCEPTED as truth and into which you have been conditioned.
If you are born an atheist - and we all are - and you are raised by an athiest family - many times what this means is you are encouraged to study, ask questions, research, learn, seek, examine, and THINK FOR YOURSELF. People who are able to do this and who are able to honestly examine the facts of reality, use reason and rational logic and thinking begin to clearly see the cracks in the facade of all faiths and religions.
The truth is staring you right in the face - it's your choice if you decide to live in your comfort, your addiction to a fiction, or if you decide to step out of the box and start looking at the facts, seeing the truth, acknowleding the reality - there simply is no evidence any supernatural being exists.
Atheist says to the Theist "Hey, matter has existed since before time, has always existed, exists now and will always exist - science can prove this."
Theist says to the Atheist "Yeah, but god created all matter." Thinking he's set the matter straight until the atheist replies to the theist...
"Ok, but who created god?"
In other words... nobody wins the argument because, inevitably the theist simply replies where the atheist began, only with a fiction at the core "Well, god is now, was then and always will be."
The only problem is - the Atheist can prove matter exists and his argument is based on tangible fact - with proof and evidence. The theist presents the argument using an unknown, unproved, unsubstantiated fiction - god. There is no proof or evidence that any supernatural god exists... and if there is no proof or evidence it exists now or ever has - then the statement is a lie.
If you want to live your life based on lies as a foundation - you are free to do so. Many of us have been there, done that - but we broke free of our own ignorance because we could not sustain the lies or stomach them any longer.
I'd be willing to bet that many of us here who are now atheists were once strong religious zealouts and supporters - but, after a time and with sincere desire to become closer to our own faith, our own understanding of god, we studied, asked questions and began to honestly look at the evidence for answers only to find that the paths all led down dead end roads to nowhere but back to the beginning - atheism.
You can want and wish your god and faith to be real... you can justify your ignorance and your actions, your blindness and deafness and ego with some book or invisible entity or claim - but in the end and deep down inside there is a part of you that knows the truth is much simpler - that is what frustrates you about atheists - you identify with us because there is a part of you that agrees with us, a piece of you that knows the truth that we are correct.
And you fight it with every breath you have because it scares you... because you don't understand the liberation that comes with understanding the truth about your own existence and mortality.
There is no argument that can help you - you've said it yourselves. You are not looking for an argument that proves god doesn't exist, you are here to see if we can help you prove he does so you don't have to feel this emptiness any longer, this doubt you are so afraid of knowing and acknowledging.
It's okay... defend, quote your book, yell from a rooftop or kill the infidels - you know and we know that the only way to get rid of that empty place inside of you is to accept it - let yourself see the truth and stop being afraid to say it "there is no proof of god, I just like my religion (whatever that is for you) and need it to face life. Therefore I will defend it because it's part of my identity - not because it's the truth, but because I need it more than the truth and the truth scares me - more than anything else I know."
It's okay... I know you'll want to reply with quotes from a book, to tell me I'm wrong - but while you are typing, you'll feel it inside of you that I'm right, that there is a seed in what I'm saying you will simply not allow to grow because you are afraid.
it's okay... we understand. Keep trying - you'll get here one day - or not. Either way, live happy because in the end, nobody gets today back again to do over.
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