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"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 21:2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 21:3And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 21:4and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away"
Why could we not have had this perfect world to start with? What was the point of God creating one world then destroying it then creating a new one? If I was God I'd just create one world.
if I was your god, I would turn over all of my powers to me, because I would be a much better god than your god.
No suffering for anyone, except Michigan Wolverine fans, and 85" 8K Samsungs on every wall everywhere!!
@dan
You have proven to be smarter than god by saying you would have made a perfect world to start with.
Well Dan we were suppose to have a perfect world but as the book of genesis describes is that man rebelled. And we have been left up to our own devices.So dan your not GOD, neither am I that`s what makes the whole encompassing thing that we call life so very interesting. god has adjusted for our sins and has given us in jesus a way to deal with this isolation of sin.We can second guess God all we want to the cows come home, but we will remain mystified by it all. It is a mysterious thing where talking about here.We see it from our finite minds but god sees and acts on the broader picture.His ways are not our ways, nor are his thoughts our thoughts.
I believe you can know the mind of God on basic stuff. We and God are both just computers. God is simply a much more powerful model. All computers great and small agree on basic sums.
So something as basic as how to design a optimal universe, we can have an insight into what God was thinking.
If you look at all the possible designs for a universe that support life after death, the only workable one is to have one universe (this one) and make time circular so we all live the same lives again.
This is what I believe.
There is evidence both logical and physical for my belief. For example, the only possible place in the universe to get enough matter/energy for the big bang is the big crunch.
@ Dan
"There is evidence both logical and physical for my belief. For example, the only possible place in the universe to get enough matter/energy for the big bang is the big crunch."
And you have yet to provide any such evidence except for a bunch of bullshit presupposed assumptions.
rmfr
@billy zarcone
So your god created a paradise but allow corruption to creep in. Anyone can tell you that this god was a crappy craftsman, an idiot in making things. So why do you give this deity so much of yourself when it is painfully obvious that your god is a massive idiot?
billy zarcone,
"I accept the book of revelation as Gods word wholly."
Have you been working on some new and unique curse words to curse Jealous with when those hundred pound hailstones start falling on your head?
This is more entertaining that actually writing my own posts. (The misogynistic side of my nature wants to say it is as entertaining as a chick fight) but through years of practice and watching PC videos, I would never say anything like that in today's world.
@Dan Re: "Every year the world gets less evil."
*whiplash double-take*.... Wha-huh???... *eyes wide open in shock*.... Pray tell, exactly on what world do you live???...
@Dan
"Every year the world gets less evil."
Every year the crime rate, starvation, and death rate decreases. The reason for that is science. Medicine has given us better odds in living to an old age, better understanding of agriculture has yielded more crops per acre, mankind is steadily moving forward in the quality of life.
Not because of some sadistic entity but because of science and the efforts of good human beings.
God expects use to use science to better ourselves. And things are heading in the right direction for an optimal solution, which is all part of God's plan.
@dan
I have to apply xenoview's razor to your claims that a god exist.
You have given no objective evidence your god is real.
@Dan
"God expects use to use science to better ourselves. And things are heading in the right direction for an optimal solution, which is all part of God's plan."
Religion is your god's method of implementing it's purpose on this planet. Religion has been the biggest obstacle in the advancement of humanity and science. So what is it? Because your god and religion are definitely anti-progress.
God cannot expect humans to use science for progress when this god is the one standing in the way of science.
@David Killens
I do not belief in organised religion. I'm a deist.
@ Dan
"I do not belief in organised religion. I'm a deist."
Same thing.
rmfr
You don't know anything about Deism. Deists specifically are against organised religion and Deism is not an organised religion.
@ Dan
"I do not belief in organised religion. I'm a deist."
Same thing.
rmfr
Dan,
"God expects use to use science to better ourselves."
According to the biblical fairy tale Yeshua cured blindness by rubbing a muddy spitball on a guy's eyelids. And he cured others by making talking demons come out of them. He said that you can do the same thing. Does that qualify as science?
And you can cure sick people by rubbing them with olive oil and praying over them. Is that science?
Mohammed said that if you're sick then you should drink a camel milk and camel piss cocktail. Maybe that is science in action?
just look at the overdoses and suicides in the USA i don`t see how these statistics show that things are better.
@ Billy
Aren't they just exercising free will?
@billy zarcone
"just look at the overdoses and suicides in the USA i don`t see how these statistics show that things are better."
That is just one nation and the suicide rate is an internal issue. The suicide rate in ALL of the Nordic countries, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland have been in a steady decline.
Since all of these Nordic countries are heavily atheistic in nature, I postulate that maybe religion is a contributing factor in suicide. Instead of saving lives, religion not only destroys lives, it murders the believers.
The same applies to drug deaths. The US is, by a huge margin, the leader in drug overdose deaths. Does religion play a part in that depressing statistic?
@Dan
How do you measure evil? Yes, war, disease, starvation/famine, and even crime has gone down as a percentage of population in the last few hundred years, with human made innovations in more recent times like penicillin, electricity and high speed communication. However as world population explodes, the actual numbers of crimes like rape, or people dying young to disease is going up in pure numbers.
Heck people choking to death because they ate something that fits perfectly in the holes to their lungs are going up. Why did your "perfect" god design humans to share the same passage for food and air, of which if one obstructs the other we die within a few minutes? And then as we get older we continuously begin to lose the ability for the tight careful muscle control and reflex to prevent food from going into our trachea.
The solution is for an all powerful god is for people to have problems? Wow what a crappy solution. I find I do a lot better than these various supposed "god ideas" at taking care of myself.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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I agree we need to manage the world population; it cannot keep on growing indefinitely.
I don't think God designed us, he used evolution to evolve us, and we are meant to use technology to finish the process of evolution. Biotech for example and cybernetics will enhance lives for future generations.
I don't think God is all powerful.
If god is not all powerful why call it god? If god did not design us why call it god? If humans need to evolve on their own using tech why god?
Why not just say: "the big bang created us" and leave it at that? Why bring god into the conversation at all?
I have said it before and I will say it again. You are atheist, you just need to drop the improper use of the word "god" from your sentences.
Just say: "the big bang created the universe at it is today most likely based on what we can observe, and for what we do not know yet, we simply do not know yet."
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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A deist is a type of theist, but its true deists have common ground with atheism. I do however belief in life after death (circular time) which is quite distinct from atheism.
I tend to use God to mean the creator(s) of the universe. So he must be pretty powerful but I doubt all powerful is possible in a material world (which I believe in).
I cannot quite prove time is circular, so the existence of God is of interest; if there was a God, a circular design for the universe seems more likely as that seems the Occam's razor solution to life after death.
You say "he" not it. I assume that is in error? A mistake of the constant influence major theistic religions have? (one creator and it is a male humanoid looking thing.)
What if setting off the big bang does not require much power? What if the big bang was all but inevitable? The big bang it self was certainly "powerful' and violent etc. Again, why not just say the big bang is powerful, no "creator" needed. The big bang created everything, but it did not require intelligence or anything of the sort.
It is good you deny the concept of all powerful, because that is full of logical/reasoning conundrums and other issues.
Do you ever consider you believe in life after death simply because you want to believe in it? It is more comforting to you then the thought of true eternal death of consciousness? Even you stated you cannot prove it, why believe something you cannot prove? Why do you disbelieve other things that you cannot prove? How do you decide which to believe and which not to?
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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It's just a philosophical convention to refer to God as 'he'. God in fact would not be the product of bisexual reproduction so would be an it.
In addition to the big bang, there are signs of design/fine-tuning in the universe so God is probably required.
I believe in what is logical I hope. Life after death would not comfort me one crumb if I could not logically justify the possibility of its existence. I am not particularly keen on the idea of oblivion but avoiding oblivion is not what motivates me; finding the truth is the motivation.
I can almost prove circular time. I have a paper almost ready.
@ Dan
"It's just a philosophical convention to refer to God as 'he'. God in fact would not be the product of bisexual reproduction so would be an it."
Then IT is an IT. And IT does not exist. Never has. Never shall.
rmfr
@Dan
"I can almost prove circular time. I have a paper almost ready."
You are delusional and well over your head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V8E82w34SY
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