About a 2-3 years ago I guess I used be in the notion that God as an entity was a mere joke that the ancients put to keep others in line...I used to think maybe there's no god at all maybe it's all a lie and the reason I did this was because I come from a Christian family and I used to read the Bible a lot since childhood I read the whole Bible when I was in my 4 or 5 th grade yet I had the above mentioned notion later when I was around 8th grade I guess and it was because according to the Bible I was wrong whatever I was doing was wrong whatever I was watching was wrong and in all this I decided to prove somehow I had a way out and I wasn't a sinner so I searched the whole Bible but couldn't find one so I decided to question the very legitimacy of the Bible and still couldn't find a way to say the Bible was wrong but I couldn't find a way to say it was right either so it all depended on what I believed so I believed it not me legitimate . Yet later after a year or two I came up with the question again and the reason was that I just realized that no matter what I think the truth won't change so what if I'm believing in the wrong thing so I decided to research it thoroughly to conclude on a satisfactory wherein I would believe in the truth rather believing which I wanted and after a lot of research I came to a stand point that I can neither prove the he exists nor that he doesn't exist so I went into a bit more depth if he doesn't exist then all that I see and what I am are by chance or if he exists he created all of this. The notion of chance is something according to me atleast which science is exactly opposite of. The growth of a plant ....a rainbow all this is not by chance and science explains it and I found it ironical for some scientists to come to the conclusion that the universe was by chance and I thought the reason they did come to the conclusion is because either they didn't know how it came to existence hence coming to the same conclusion as the ancients did regarding rainbows or that they just didn't want the idea of God to win. So the reason of chance has no meaning at all so the other alternative is that God exists and it didn't take me time to come to that conclusion because I thought we look at a painting and think about what a great artist painted this and when I look at everything around ,below and above me I think about it's creator so I came to the conclusion that God exists but now th question was if God exists then which one is he in other words which religion is speaking about God and which are just a way to keep people in line and stuff surely one of them is right because God would have interacted with his creation somehow or the other. So the first thing I searched for was contradiction and practicality because if they were really talking about God then there shouldn't be any contradiction coz they're talking about the characteristics of one being and it should be practical coz if God gave those rules and stuff they should be applicable in the present world in that way I came down to two religions it was either Christianity or islam. Now I had to decide between these two and it came down to Christianity because as I looked Islam was a religion where it was passed down by one man so whatever we know about God is of what that one man says and I thought why would god tell about himself through a man to mankind and when I looked at Christianity it's not one man talking about God it's 40 + different authors spread across the lapse of time most of them not even in the same era yet talk about one being in one way characterising him in one manner and not only that God himself came down to tell about himself to tell about his plans for his creation so clearly at that moment though I read the Bible many times that was the first time I understood it and how God is, was and will be....that moment I read the Bible again and truly I looked back at my life and what I was missing how I was and what the Bible was talking about me was absolutely true so and finally I realized that I was a sinner and realized how I was running after something temporary while seeking for something eternal...and I realized this when I was reading through something and read a sentence which said "you'll never find in sin what you've entered it for" and at that instant I felt different and I realized that God talked to me through this sentence how do I know God talked to me?? Well to be honest it's a quite different sensation and moreover a quite hard feeling like you just know he talked to you eventhough it didn't happen physically and by the way I forgot to mention something I realized when I was concluding on whether god exists or not is that how can one come to a conclusion on the extraordinary when he/she restricts it to the ordinary....hope I changed some of the people's views with this message if some of you disagree with my view and have a different opinion please present it to me I would love to hear out various opinions
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Ok, Drogon, you are a theist. I’m not. So?
@Cyber Re: "Ok, Drogon, you are a theist. I’m not. So?"
I get the impression that our new friend believes his argument for god is so amazingly overwhelming that we should all immediately drop to our knees and repent and start singing praises unto The Lord. Personally, though, I'm considering converting back to Christianity just for the cookies and koolaid I use to get in Sunday school as a kid.
Tin - “I'm considering converting back to Christianity just for the cookies and koolaid I use to get in Sunday school as a kid.”
You’ve always been a cheap date.
@Cyber Re: "You’ve always been a cheap date."
...*bashful grin*... Aw, shucks. You're making me blush...
I got the impression that the poster did not care about the reader enough to spend the effort to carefully refine his thoughts and present them in paragraphs.
Churches… I like the idea of playing music and eating foods but that's about it. The beliefs therein are nutty.
I always feel that children are the best reason to go to church. Nobody was born believing in the religious fables or gods. Children are impressionable either way — they can learn reason, inquisition, and rhetoric, or they can learn fairy tales. If you play music, it's always fun to play fun, friendly tunes that everyone knows. AC/DC songs are always fun and most people love 'em.
But (there's always a big butt when it comes to churches) you have to be careful otherwise they start seeing you as weird and then they might see you as a spiritual enemy. Some of these people believe that they are engaged in spiritual warfare.
Oi! Oi! Oi! Oi! (Stomp, sing, and play)
Lock up your daughter
Lock up your wife
Lock up your backdoor
And run for your life
Hell's Bells is another fun one. Van Halen, Rolling Stones… They can play that kumbaya stuff when I'm gone.
If I could start my own church, there would be drums.
Let there be sound
There was sound
Let there be light
There was light
Let there be drums
There was drums
Let there be guitar
There was guitar
Oh, Let there be rock
“ so I decided to research it thoroughly”.
Your research was not very thorough and comprehensive—you should have started with physics and eventually would have understood why ‘god’ has zero likelihood of being a real entity and what you call chance is a human subjective concept.
And before anyone jumps on the language, let me be very clear, chance is human subjective arbitrary notion with no underlying property of nature to back it—our standard model however is also a human device to understand nature but with underlying properties of nature to to back it. Different things.
So you believe in god. Congratulations.
I believe in paragraphs and punctuation, and I absolutely worship brevity and clarity.
Ummmmm.... PUNCTUATION.... Please!... For fuck's sake..... *rubbing temples with fingertips*... Anyway, that aside...
Congratulations! You "found god"! Now we can call in all the search parties and cancel all the Missing Person BOLO's.... *sigh of relief*...
Dude, seriously? You went searching for "the truth"..... You conducted "extensive research".... You narrowed your choices down to Islam and Christianity.... You chose Christianity because the bible was "written by over 40 authors" (many of them anonymous, by the way), as opposed to Islam, which you say was "passed down by only one man." (Oh, and in case you didn't know, the god of Islam is the same god as Christianity.)... And, then, in a roundabout manner, you seem to claim there are NO CONTRADICTIONS within the bible and the teachings of Christianity.... Did I read all that correctly?... *scratching head in bewilderment*...
Ummmm... Soooo.... Well, alrighty then... *shrugging shoulders*... Whatever floats your boat and makes you happy, I suppose. Have fun with that...
What I extracted from the OP:
A collection of lies from 40 people, are somehow more trustworthy than a collection of lies from one person?
What are you on and can I have some please?
Oh, and punctuation, paragraphs and some evidence would also help.
@Dragon: Holy fuck? Do you know what a "Paragraph is?"
1. I believed so I believed it not me legitimate when in forth or firth grade but a year or two later, I looked at it again.
2. This time I decided to search it thoroughly. I decided "He" Assuming that is God. Could not be proved or disproved.
(HERE IS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE) There is no need to disprove an assertion that can not be proved. The person making the claim has the burden of proof. No one has to disprove a fantasy. No one has to prove Peter Pan was never a real person. The person making the claim has the burden of proof. The Bible is the claim, NOT THE PROOF.
(SOMEHOW WE ENDED UP ON CHANCE) You seem to have a grasp of the concept. Atoms and molecules do not bond by chance. It makes no sense to call everything "chance." You would have to define exactly what you mean by the term and then rule out determination. We have no way to go back in time so this is an unfalsifiable claim.
(WOW! HERE IS A MORONIC STATEMENT) "So the reason of chance has no meaning at all so the other alternative is that God exists and it didn't take me time to come to that conclusion."
So what is the CHANCE that a magical all powerful being would create a universe like ours using his magical abilities? HA HA HA HA HA HA ..... Before you can assert a God did it, you must demonstrate a god is possible. Good luck!
(Another FUCKTARD comment) "because God would have interacted with his creation somehow or the other."
So you just proved all the Deists are wrong in one quick creation of an inane opinion. PURE IDIOTIC BULLSHIT. If a God exists, there is no reason what so ever that he would need to contact his creation. DEMONSTRATE YOUR CLAIM.
(FALLACY OF THE PAINTING) You are comparing things that are created with things that occur naturally. We know the difference between created things BECAUSE we compare them with things that occur naturally. In your world view, EVERYTHING IS A PAINTING, there can be no difference between a painting or a tree because everything is painted. If everything is painted you can not make distinctions.
ONE MAN? Islam is traced back to one man, Muhammad, who met with the angel Gabriel. Jesus never meets with an angel? OBVIOUSLY you are completely ignorant on the subject of the Quaran and have never heard of the accompanying books "The Hadith." The fact that the Christians put their 27 New Testament books in a single cannon and Islam has left their books separate is COMPLETELY LOST ON YOU.
(FINALLY YOU DELUDED YOURSELF INTO BELIEVING BULLSHIT)
finally I realized that I was a sinner and realized how I was running after something temporary while seeking for something eternal.. DEMONSTRATE ANYTHING ETERNAL.
GOD TALKED TO ME? "God talked to me through this sentence how do I know God talked to me??" I have an entire facility with 128 beds where you could find a home. Half these people believe God has talked with them and is still talking to them. The other half believe they are god. Isn't it interesting how those believing God is talking to them could actually be right? Anyway, your meds are waiting for you. Come on in.
MORONIC CONCLUSION--- "hope I changed some of the people's views with this message if some of you disagree with my view and have a different opinion please present it to me I would love to hear out various opinions."
You came here to preach? Have you read the rules? Your conclusions are IDIOTIC at best. Provide evidence for the existence of the god you assert exists or go away. Before you can assert a god exists, it must be a possibility. Can you demonstrate that possibility beyond a simple assertion that it must be true?
LEARN TO WRITE!
I am impressed by anyone that waded through that barf by the OP.
I gave up soon as I saw no paragraphs.
@ Thread about the OP
Another apunctuationist. Its a sin. It usually the first sign of a disordered mind. I didn't bother to read it. I might write garbage myself but at least its readable, you know in English.
Me too, I've read more of it actually in the comments of others who had the patience to break up the incoherence of the OP.
Prediction - this one won't last long.
It's a "Stay At Home Sunday" Practice guitar, do a bit of prep work for classes, read a bit, and respond to blathering posts on AR.
I remember when I was about 13 or 14 “proving” the truth of JWs to myself. Had sorta the same reasoning process.
Here’s a quick question. Noah’s flood. How did you prove the truth of this little gem to yourself. It ties in with the rainbow you mentioned. Didn’t the rainbow come after the flood? How’s this work? Just curious.
The bible is filled with errant nonsense starting with Genesis, which can't even get the most basic chronological facts about the origins of the universe correct. Global floods that never happened, Exodus from Egypt is nonsense, and on and on it goes. So I find your claim extremely dubious.
This is called a false dichotomy fallacy, where someone asserts we are limited to just two choices, comparing what is usually an a priori belief they favour with a straw man they think they can easily disprove. Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity? If not then you should demonstrate what you consider to be the most compelling reason you have to believe a deity is real.
How does that remotely evidence a deity? You are using another false dichotomy fallacy, and lastly there is a world of difference between a process containing random or chance events and a process consisting entirely of random events.
You seem to not care at all about tangible objective evidence for your belief, how many other beliefs do you hold outside fo your religious beliefs for which you demand no objective evidence at all?
I believe in God too. I've tried life with and without believing in God, and I find the fruits of the Spirit promised when I do live in belief and prayer to be real.
I know we are about as close to proving or disproving God as we ever have been, only man's interpretation of what God is can be moved by knowledge for now. So I'll keep reaping the fruits of the Spirit.
"I know we are about as close to proving or disproving God as we ever have been, only man's interpretation of what God is can be moved by knowledge for now."
Mankind is further away from your god than at any time in the past. Each day science and evidence unveil facts that contradict the bullshit in the bible. Do you really believe there was a talking snake?
There is absolutely zero evidence of Noah's ark or the flood.
What a particularly pointless, and vapid thing to come to an atheist forum and share? Are these fruits being cut for you by a nurse? You've offered nothing at all, beyond a belief you admit you can't evidence, on an atheist forum, where it's clear no one shares that belief.
@Homer: Thank you for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation. Go enjoy your fruit. You know.......... I just remembered an ole expression my mommy used to say..... "You are what you eat."
"so I decided to research it thoroughly"
You filed miserably in research.
You have huge gaps of knowledge about physics, and religion has filled those gaps, like a sticky cancer. If you have spent a fraction of time devoted to physics against reading holy books, you would not be making so many "god of the gaps" associations.
But in the end, you did not arrive at a meaningful decision, you just chose the one book that made you feel good.
I would respect you a lot more if you saved me so much reading time by the simple summary"I have no empirical evidence for a god, but I have faith".
I am "amazed" that you were capable of discarding the other 4,300 religions so quickly and casually. Can you offer a valid reason why?
And if having just one author seems to important you, I have this little book you may like.
You are very welcome. I did hope to explain what I base my belief in God upon, and I guess I failed.
@Homer: RE: "I guess I failed." And AMAZINGLY so!
@Cognostic I'll just have to work on better explaining how I have more patience, love, kindness, and peace when I believe than when I didn't, and that those traits aren't, as far as any way I can coming from within myself. And that's why I believe in God.
I saw a thread entitled "Why I believe in God" and figured this was a good place to post it. Just trying to add to the conversation, and I'll work on my presentation. Hopefully I'll get better at it.
"I saw a thread entitled "Why I believe in God" and figured this was a good place to post it. Just trying to add to the conversation, and I'll work on my presentation. Hopefully I'll get better at it."
And I welcome your input. But I respectfully request that you re-visit your post, followed below ...
"I believe in God too. I've tried life with and without believing in God, and I find the fruits of the Spirit promised when I do live in belief and prayer to be real.
I know we are about as close to proving or disproving God as we ever have been, only man's interpretation of what God is can be moved by knowledge for now. So I'll keep reaping the fruits of the Spirit."
All you did was drop buzzwords that had meaning to you but zero impact on someone like me.
"Fruits of the spirit"? Please define that one.
@David K. Re: ""Fruits of the spirit"? Please define that one."
Aw, c'mon, man. You know what the "fruits" are. There are the dingleberries and air-biscuits, for starters. Moving on, you get soup sandwiches, chewed bubblegum, and a bonanza of pig tripe. Oh, and for dessert, let's not forget about puss pies topped with a nice juicy apple with two bites taken out of it.
How does that evidence a deity? It might merely be a placebo effect for a start.
It could be!!! I would love to know how to prove that!!!
One of us is chained to the wall of Plato's cave here, and the other has seen beyond!
Kinda hard to figure that one out! As it has been for many for many years.
You didn't say how your claim to be "experiencing what you call the fruit if the spirit," remotely evidences a deity?