Why I believe in god
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My accepting a deity's existence to receive it is the most compelling evidence for me.
@Homer: "My accepting a deity's existence to receive it is the most compelling evidence for me."
That's why we invented science and independent verification. So the people would know the truth when the Village Idiot ran around shouting that the sky was falling.
Many are quite capable of accepting everything science proves and believing in a creator.
It just seems those who can't capture all the attention.
Ummmm ya...hopefully you will get better at the basic human trait of reason as well.
@Homer: If real people could magically avoid all personal responsibility in their lives by passing it on to an invisible, non-corporal, magical, all powerful entity, they would all believe they were more peaceful, more patient, and more filled with love and kindness, they could live in delusion with mindless smiles on their faces too.. THERE IS NOTHING KIND ABOUT ANYTHING YOU BELIEVE. YOUR GOD IS A MURDERING ASS. He is an amoral piss-ant who dictates eternal punishment for finite crimes. From the first book of the bible to the last, he is a fucking shithead. And you find peace and love in his blatant butchery? What does that say about you?
Some of us actually care....
@David, sure, I'm talking about a concept mentioned in the Bible, one that I find to be true no matter how I look at it:.
" But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. "
When I haven't held belief, I lose that, no matter how I try. I can find these traits in myself when I don't hold faith, but they are miniscule compared to when I do.
I can't escape that as a truth within myself. I have no idea if others have tried the comparison and found different results.
I am not here to attack you, but to understand better.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."
Then why not just call them for what they are, each positive human traits? When you take already well-defined words and wrap them all together in a sticky cotton-candy ball of feel-good, no one understands it but yourself.
I did not, I honestly did not understand this "fruit of the spirit".
I was a former theist, and now I have difficulty understanding the thought processes of those who still cling to outdated concepts and fuzzy thinking. I think no less of you than anyone else, but I have little respect for those with imprecise and fuzzy thinking, and use incorrect or misleading definitions.
What I am attempting to do is break through the wall of comforting words and get down to the real emotions and beliefs inside you.
@Homer Re: "I can't escape that as a truth within myself. I have no idea if others have tried the comparison and found different results."
Personally, I discovered I am a much better person AFTER I ditched all the religious baggage. But - hey - if you require the writing of some fictional book written by desert dwelling nomads over two thousand years ago to make you happy and keep you from being a belligerent asshole or a murdering psychopath... *shrugging shoulders*.... then, please, by all means, maintain your faith, brother. Personally, though, I prefer to deal with reality and be a good person by my own choice. I do not require some mystical-magical fantasy "daddy" to dictate to me how I should treat other people. Especially when that mystical-magical fantasy "daddy" is an insecure, narcissistic, homophobic, misogynistic, mass-murdering, racist bully. But, you know, whatever floats your boat, buddy.
I've been reading that book, and honestly not getting a lot out of it other than those nomads getting things wrong for thousands of years and then one coming along who got things right. I do the same things, I do what I believe is right and I'm not a belligerent asshole (at least I don't think I am) and I'm certainly not a murdering psychopath, but I do have more joy and love in my life when I believe.
It doesn't mean I'm bound to all the religious baggage mankind has dumped onto carrying faith in a creator.
So fucking what, I have asked you repeatedly to explain how this (unevidenced btw) claim, remotely evidences a deity?
Your claim to be christian comes with doctrinal teachings and dogma, and atheists are not remotely responsible for this.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?
"It doesn't mean I'm bound to all the religious baggage mankind has dumped onto carrying faith in a creator."
You are a prime example of someone denying the profound effect religion has on a person. In a previous post you stated that without your god, you would be a lesser person.
Individuals are very capable of independence, self-sufficiency, and having the capacity to experience the full range of emotions. Because religion strips away a person's self-confidence and strengths, you have proven that your religion has made you into a lesser person than your could have been.
Because you have such a strong belief in your god, you believe you are incapable of the full range of emotions on your own.
@Cognostic I believe there is an entity who created the universe, and I believe that this entity created it to create sentience, a universe that is capable of pondering itself. I believe that entity provides those fruits to those who hold faith, mainly because of how I experience existence when I walk in faith.
I'm not so sure about the rest of what man has come up with about that entity as far as if it passes judgement and wrath. I've not been able to reconcile that assertion with what I experience. If I ever meet God, I'll ask about that.
ETA: And I never use God to reason away what I do in life to myself or others.
@Homer: Muslims walk in faith, Buddhists walk in faith, Hindus walk in faith, Jews walk in faith, Catholics walk in faith, the JW walk in faith, the Mormons walk in faith, Shintists walk in faith, can you think of any system of religion that does not require faith? Faith is not a path to truth. Faith can lead you to anyplace you choose to direct your faith at. Faith is AS USELESS AS YOUR BIBLE.
RE: "I'm not so sure about the rest of what man has come up with about that entity as far as if it passes judgement and wrath. I've not been able to reconcile that assertion with what I experience. If I ever meet God, I'll ask about that."
AND IN THE MEANTIME, you will continue being a dupe for a piss-ass excuse for a religion. What a way to live a life! NO THANKS!
"I believe there is an entity who created the universe, and I believe that this entity created it to create sentience, a universe that is capable of pondering itself."
And where did this universe creating entity originate?
Have you considered the option that this universe creating entity was itself created by a larger and more powerful entity that wanted to play the same game?
The universe does not ponder itself, it has zero intelligence and self-awareness. There may be isolated pockets of intelligence like us humans, but that would constitute less than a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of the total mass of this universe.
Isn't it incredible that a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of the total mass of this universe can ponder itself! I'm pretty happy about that, faith or not!
Isn't it incredible how theists jump to all sorts of unfounded conclusions about the universe in which we find ourselves. The possibility of life in this universe is a billion times more likely than the existence of your God. I'm certainly pretty damn happy about that. Can you even imagine if such a fucking monster were real?
Oh I believe that there's life all over the universe. It's amazing that the universe is so complex and something that could support life. Not proof of anything, but amazing nonetheless. We won the lottery with this universe!
Hmm, you seem to be contradicting yourself there?
Howso? My actions are my own. I get more fruit when I believe than when I don't.
How can they be your own if you lose them when you don't believe?
Either way, you still have not explained how this belief evidences a deity? Those behaviours are a personal choice, you are claiming that not believing in a deity form a bronze age superstition somehow makes it harder for you to adopt those behaviours? Also why don't you care about the effect your behaviour has on others, surely that's enough of a reason to try to adopt those behaviours? I don't need the delusion of an unevidenced deity for that.
I have less love and joy in my existence without faith than I have with it. My choices are still my own.
I just answered you question about how it evidences a deity for me in the thread, forgive me, I'm still trying to figure out how the threads work here.
Homer, you wrote, “I have less love and joy in my existence without faith than I have with it. My choices are still my own.”
Is your god omniscient?
If so, your choices are not, in fact, your own
I'm not so sure that God is some "Omni God". Why does a creator have to be Omni anything?
Homer, please, then, describe what makes your god a god.
I see a God who created our universe that is designed to create sentience to commune with. I don't pretend to know the limits of the power of that God, only that this entity wants a connection with all who believe. If I ever meet that God I'll ask about limits of power, but I'm just appreciative of the connection. I'm not too hung up on how much control the creator has over the universe, but I'll take any help I can get!
It is pretty darned handy to have such a squishy definition of this god to whom you give so much credit and around whom you organize your life. Such squishiness allows for turn-on-a-dime adjustments to sate your current wishes.
Organize my life around it? Howso? I believe, I pray, I receive joy. The organization part is just like anyone elses as far as I know.
"I see a God who created our universe"
Eight words is all it takes to prove how shaky the foundation of your belief is. There is absolutely zero evidence to indicate that a "god" was around before and during the big bang. While there are reams and terrabytes of data supporting other alternatives to that question.
@Homer: You are certainly full of fruit!
"I believe that entity provides those fruits to those who hold faith, mainly because of how I experience existence when I walk in faith."
I enjoy those fruits too...however I only have a non-religious based faith in humanities innately good actions. Why is it, that you need a god figure, to experience what humans innately feel anyways? Seems like a failure in reason not to be able to understand this. It's almost like you are afraid of life without a crutch. Oh well.