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"So again I say until you get a detailed photo of a star it is nothing more than speculation that they are like the sun. Duh!!!"
So we have objects, that are the same size as the sun, has the same mass as the sun, has the same chemical composition as the sun, output the same about of power as the sun; but you don't think they are like the sun until you get a selfie? dumb on purpose.
Lol.
Considering ive spent 20 years answering really dumb questions by theists its an achievement that chucky is in the top ten most purposely dumb.
He doesnt even use google to get a laymans understanding (hell ive seen first year highschool kids with a better understanding) on topics he tries to argue against.
Its quite insulting here we are researching anything we argue about in order to have intelligent discourse and he cant be bothered to do the same just, spouts off crap hes seen on creationist sites or was told by his equivalent of a priest cos yea the biased guy with no degrees and a desperate need to keep bums in seats is a great source for scientific understanding.
Your wrong Lmale,
I like science very much. I've showed you that God even speaks of science in His word. And says not to believe in what is "falsely so called science". You are only willing to accept what would be used to try to eliminate God, even if it uses false information. That is easy to see in the Grand Canyon, in which I gave you a perfect example in nature itself, with My. St. Helens.
And as far as the universe you have nothing more than speculation of how it began.
Oh, Chuckie, just when I think you can't get any sillier, you soar to even newer heights.
And I see you dropping to lower levels to accept what others suggest, as long as they give you a means to claim there is no God. You will even accept someone's claim that there is nothing after this life, when they have never been there.
And yes I know you will say I claim there is something after this life because someone told me there is. The difference is I know someone who has been there. Oh wait it is He who has given me life after death.
I just want to tell each and every one of you, I hope you all have a Very Merry Christmas.
I do care very much about each of you. God has enriched my heart, being able to talk to so many around the world.
Again I hope your day is filled with joy!!!
Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
Did you know that Christmas uses stolen pagan rituals and dates?
In the 2nd Century, early christians celebrated 'Christmas' on January 6th, which was the winter solstice.
It was moved to December 25 simply to quash 'pagan beliefs'.
Just a fun factoid, hope the holidays were warm and filled with loved ones. And maybe some cool free stuff.
''The enemy of my enemy is my friend.'' I am an atheist and 100% against religion for the obvious reason of too many lies and ''the brainwashing effect.'' My allegiance with the evolutionary theory only exists because of the common enemy between us but it has its limits. There are various schools of thought that seek to discredit religion and I align myself with them. You wrote a very good piece there and presented very good questions but your whole paragraph is based on the assumption that ''all atheists are loyal to the evolutionary theory.'' The reason why you felt so betrayed by the evolution theory is because you were seeking for something to believe in and you made a mistake subscribing to a theory. By definition a theory is a statement with enough evidence to be considered and too many missing factors to be accepted. Why did you put your faith in such a thing???? As an atheist I do not seek to believe in anything, I want to know.!! Until the guys in the laboratories or theists come up with something concrete I am cool like this so should you.
A scientific theory is defined as "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation." It actually doesn't have any uncertainty, that's a common misconception. The difference between "scientific theory" and "scientific law" is whether or not you can sum it up with an equation.
Hello Black Tag,
I would first like to make sure I'm understanding what your saying about not believing in anything.
Several people on this site claim they don't believe in anything, but that is simply the ignorance of not knowing what the definition of the word belief is. So here is the definition, please read it and tell me if you still claim the same way, or if you simply don't believe in God.
be·lief
bəˈlēf/
noun
noun: belief; plural noun: beliefs
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
"contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language"
synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
"it's my belief that age is irrelevant"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon;
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"
antonyms: disbelief, doubt
Before we go any further may I start by complementing the way you put your arguments across without passing any insults or anything provocative. My definition of belief which I use when I talk about religion is...''Accepting something without knowledge or evidence to support its validity''.. The word itself can be used loosely depending on the situation.. There is a statement which says,''Belief is the pathway used by desperate minds'' Which dictionary were you using?????
Black Tag
Thank you, I don't like to be insulting, though some I'm sure think I am just because I stand on Jesus. I care about everyone, and I want everyone to find the truth. Though I also know that not everyone likes the city life. But sometimes I can't help but to be a little sarcastic lol.
As far as the definition of belief I went to Google and typed it in and it gave the definition without giving a dictionary name.
Though I know these days everyone wants to pick and choose what they want a word to mean. For example on this site someone actually said they don't believe in anything, not even doors. They simply automatically grab the door handle and turn to go through it. A little silly if you ask me. If they truly didn't believe in doors they would get a bloody nose when they tried to go through it.
I would like to know if they believe in absolute truths?
You asked in your first post why I put my faith in evolution. It's because if there wasn't a God, that would be the only other possibility. And when God showed me the truth of Himself and that there were many lies in evolution that he been proven, yet evolutionist still needed to hold onto them because they don't have enough evidence without the lies, it was a no brainer what to choose.
I know a lot of Christians who believe in evolution, so to be clear I'm not trying to disprove your faith, I just want to teach you about evolution because I think it's important. If you want pictures check out this link http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03. Anyways... whales have useless hip bones. They don't have back legs, but they still have hips. Why? For the same reason that although they live in water, they are mammals that breathe air: they came from an ancestor that once lived on land, and haven't evolved away the hip bones yet. We have fossils of Pakicetus, an otter-like animal. The better swimmers (more streamlined) caught more fish, had more offspring, which were more streamlined, until over generations the species changed slightly and we no longer find Pakicetus fossils, we find its streamlined, expert swimmer descendant Ambulocetus, then Kutchicetus, then Rhodocetus, then Dorudon, and finally we get to modern whales. We have dating methods that show the time sequence. We see finger bones flatten out as arm bones shorten until we get fins. We see back legs disappear because a tail fin is more useful than legs for an animal in water. We see the nostrils slowly move up along the skull to become a blowhole so it can quickly, easily take a breath at the surface. There is extensive evidence just for whale evolution. I could go on, but I won't... we have this much evidence for evolution of dinosaurs to birds, primates to humans, etc, but I won't write it because it's too much.
One of the recent Popes actually said evolution is true based on evidence presented.
Whee, facts.
LOL! Very funny stuff! Since you're no longer an atheist, don't feel the need to visit here any longer. Enjoy your faith. Good bye!
I think that what most people here are missing, is that the original poster keeps moving the goalpoasts on you. Each time you present a piece of the puzzle that one would normally follow to a conclusion it is dismissed. Any evidence that you may present is not well understood by the original poster, and topics presented tend to change rapidly. Where no one person should know everything, he picks and chooses arguments based on that fact simply to support his argument that “you don’t know something.” I am right and you are wrong. However, given the same challenge, he would provide the answer “God….” This is the classic “God of the Gaps” argument where if someone has no answer, or the does not understand the evidence presented, then God did it. However one would have to provide evidence of God, since their entire counter argument is based on the assumption that God exists. But like Hitches has said “That which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”, and we know there is very little evidence to support his claim. He does not understand that may of the conclusions that we humans have made have come from countless years of study of the natural world where people have asked questions, made observations, conducted experiments, gathered data, confirmed data, repeated the afore mentioned countless times in order to find flaw or falsify claims eventually confirming as fact that which we have discovered, and dismissing that which falls flat on its face. In many cases this required belief to be tossed out, as observation conflicted with belief. Nowhere does Newton mention God when explaining the laws of motion or his concept of gravity, until he got to a point where he could no longer explain that which he was working on, and the publisher had made him make mention of God to ensure publication and to reduce the change of offending anyone. Einstein made his biggest blunder by removing the cosmological constant from his studies of relativity because it didn’t fit the way he felt it should work. Later, after Hubble’s discoveries on red shift and expansion, Einstein admitted his mistake noting that he should have followed where the evidence led him, instead of holding to a belief.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is just a conversion tactic started by someone who is either a troll, or someone who truly believes that what they are saying is valid, and in that case, to him, it would be. You have provided links to info that he would like to dismiss, because those links will connect him with experts in those fields, not the common person in which he might be able to “win” an argument. Not only that, but it would force him to do his own work, which he seems incapable. You have given him your personal thoughts and own expert assessments, only to be denied. He uses the made up term “evolutionist(s)” not understanding that there is no such thing. He uses the term miracle, which in his case is magic, but for many others it is merely something that happened that had a low probability of ever happening or that which we cannot explain yet. Miracles in themselves, are not immediate confirmations of a higher being in any way, but is a way for our simple minds as they have evolved, to make sense of that which we don’t understand. He over simplifies concepts and asks the very same questions that thousands if not millions have asked before him, the only difference being that they have devoted their lives in specializing in these areas of study trying and succeeding in answering these questions, he has not. So now it’s time to stop feeding the troll. It’s up to him to realize that there is nothing mysterious or supernatural about the universe, as long as you are willing to see, and seek the truth in all things. We can't do this for him.
Why bother publishing this trifle? The writer shows he knows nothing about atheism, belief, or religion.
Why bother publishing this trifle? The writer shows he knows nothing about atheism, belief, or religion.
If Atheism is a 'religion' then being "asexual" is a perversion.
Look atheism up in the dictionary, I think you may have it confused with Scientology or some nonsense.
I'm an atheist, and never will be an 'ex' atheist becuase there are no gods to even believe in! A religion is a system based upon 'faith' in something that has no evidence for existing except written word by people who are long dead.
There are atheists who don't trust science, atheists who love science, some who have different convictions for different things.
But none of us are 'angry at god' or 'angry at gods', because you can't be angry with something that doesn't exist! I'm angry with people who spread religious lies (Christianity, Islam, etc) and shun those who speak the truth.
You're afraid of the truth, so I pity you. You run to a system that lies to you, in favor of showing courage in our diverse world.
As for me, I have no god, no master. I am my own leader and nobody can shut that down.
And spell atheist correctly, if you come here (to an atheist forum no less!) to banter pointlessly. This isn't a debate, it's a sad joke and nobody's laughing.
Peace.
Oh but you know it all right? What have you done to prove there is no God and that proves evolution to be true. I'm sure you believe in what other men have said, taking there word for it that there was some big bang billions of years ago that can't be proven. Of which some are dead and now know the truth. You have nothing that can't be refuted. You simply believe what you want that agrees with your worldly view. You say you have no God or master, that no one can stop you from doing what you want. Have you ever been pulled over by the police? Have you ever done something at a job you wanted to do and gotten fired over it? Have you ever paid taxes that you didn't want to? Do you ever have to go to detention when you were in school? If any of those are true you can see you have a master. Everyone does. Why don't you show me the proof that I'm wrong and your evolution is correct huh.
Oh and by the way I still stand by my original post that Atheizum is a religion, because you believe by faith that what others have told you is true.
@Chuck
You claim to be an "ex-atheist/evolutionist" who "found out that atheism was a religion".
Then you add "I found out that there are so many lies in evolution with nothing to back them up."
What I have to wonder from your OP is: Why the religion of Chriztianity?
If (and that's a big IF) your statement was truthful and you were an atheist as you claim; why would "finding out" that there are "lies in evolution", suddenly lead you to believe in Christianity, and I presume, a particular denomination of Christianity?
Most religions have a tale of creation that could provide you with the sufficient replacement for evolution.
But, among all the alternatives of religions and their denominations, you suddenly got such strong faith in a particular religion and denomination?
Could you please connect the dots here?
"Evolution is false" --- "Therefore I believe in Christianity" (Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Anglican, Reformed?)
The Pragmatic
The best way I can answer you is to give you my testimony, but first;
This is the definition of atheist:
.a·the·ist
ˈāTHēəst/
noun
noun: atheist; plural noun: atheists
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"he is a committed atheist"
synonyms: nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, skeptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, agnostic; nihilist
"why is it often assumed that a man of science is probably an atheist?"
antonyms: believer
When I first came on this site, mainly Lmale tried to claim that I wasn't an atheist because he claimed I didn't know the things that he believes an atheist should know. Yet he also claimed that not all atheists fully disbelieve in God and that they don't all believe the same thing, which is basically what the definition says. Some have strong disbeliefs in God and try to come up with anything they can that they can add their opinions to in order try and discredited the truth of God. Other's simply disbelieve in God and don't care about coming up with anything to discredit God. They just don't believe. In which both are atheists, they don't believe in God.
I was somewhere in between. I thought I knew enough to put any believer in his place. After all how hard could it be right. I used what several in this site has used on me "you can't prove God to exist so therefore He can't exist. And yes I went into more than just that one point many times. So it seems that according to some on this site you have to agree with them or you shouldn't be on here, but what is the point in debating then?
So according to the definition of atheist, I was an unbelieving atheist.
I used to live in the state of Illinois were there wasn't many people that I came in contact with that actually lived a life standing for God. Then I moved to Tennessee were many people are not afraid to live according to what they believe and they are not ashamed to tell or talk to others about the truth they found in Christ. One day at work an assistant plant manager asked me if I wanted to join him and others for a bible study at break time. I let him know I don't believe in that stuff. He asked me a very good question "if God showed me the truth would I follow Him?" I said if God really showed me that He is real, then yes I would follow Him.
Then he asked me if he could give me some gospel tracks. So he began giving them to me every morning. We also started having a little debate ourselves once a week after work. You'll never guess what happened when I got home after our first meeting after work. When I got home I opened my mailbox and there was a magazine I had never ordered in it.
It was a Time Life magazine, and on the cover of it was the newly found skull of the newest so called missing link Lucy. Oh wait that is another coincidence right. Isn't that always the case when something can't be explained? How was it that that magazine wasn't sent to me at another time? Anyway I took that magazine in with me for our next meeting. I pulled out my new magazine and he pulled out his bible.
We went back and forth that evening, and a few others. Then on what became the last of our debates, he gave me a video from Dr. Kent Hovind.
I took it and told him I would watch it.
I was arguing against it over half way through, but he kept showing stuff that could be checked out that gives real evidence of things like petrified wood in which evolutionist claim take a very long time to petrify. When in fact there are many things including wood that has petrified within a couple of years. And many other things he brought out. I'm going to run a rabbit here for a few.
You see it's one thing to look at something and study it and come to a conclusion of what you think about it. But as soon as someone comes up with something else that shows a contradiction to what your conclusion was, especially the time it takes for whatever the process was, then you have to take another look at it from the New evidence. Most of the time evolutionist ignore evidence that discredits there agendas. But since most television stations support a billions of years evolution based theory, it makes it harder to show real evidence to the contrary. There are many things I can go into that I have learned about since I got saved. The problem is that most evolutionist and atheists will ignore them and will not check them out, but yet I'm the one they claim won't check things out that they tell me to, yet many of those things I've already looked at. How embarrassing would it be for any of you that some of the things you believe take so much time is shown to you in front of a huge crowd that it doesn't take so long, just because you wouldn't check it out for yourself. Most on this site like to try and use so called evidence that is out of the scope of anyone being able to show an absolute truth of what is taking place. Those are usually things in space. But just because someone can't show anything more about stars than an evolutionist can, it doesn't make the evolutionist thoughts on the matter any more valid than a creationist thoughts on the matter. We have the same evidence to go by, just a different world view to start with. One thing we do have in space that is evidence contrary to evolutionists is the dust on the moon. I'll go into that later if you would like. Oh yeah and the fact that comets are still buzzing around the solar system. Hey you know what the more I think about it the more evidence I can think of that really goes against billions of years.
So back to my testimony.
So by the end of the video I realized that it was very probable that God exists. After all there is nothing in the universe that can be used to discredit the existence of God. So after the video I kept thinking on it and this something I nor anyone else has been able to explain came over me, or within me. Not in my head so much but like it was in my soul. It was like my eyes were being opened to something I had never contemplated before. I realized it was really true. I then actually spoke to God and said I believe, but because I was so excited I told Him I wanted to see the rest of the videos before I actually accepted Him. The way He just kept wrestling with me on the inside, I was surprised I was able to sleep that night. When I got up in the morning it was like He just continued. I went to work and I couldn't wait for Silas the assistant plant manager to come by like He did every morning to give me a track. Yet that morning he was running late getting back to my area. But God was pouring it on me stronger and stronger. So I just had to pray and ask Jesus to forgive me and that I wanted Him in my heart. And glory, glory, glory He saved me. Within about 15 minutes here came Silas. I headed towards him and said I believe with my hand in the air pointing to Heaven.
My heart was changed (not the pump in my chest), the core of my beliefs. That same day at work God established something in me that just helped tremendously in settling how real He was. You see I had a very filthy mouth before I was saved, and I had been told by someone who claimed to be a Christian that as long as you didn't use God's name while cussing it didn't matter. So not having any guilt for cussing I didn't even think about it. But as I was building water lines for my job, something wasn't going right and I got a little mad and without anyone being close enough to hear me I used the f... word. Immediately this conviction (not guilt, I know what guilt feels like) came over me in such a way I looked up. And it was like God said you are not going to talk that way anymore. That's the last time it came out of my mouth.
There are many other things I could tell you about that I have experienced since then. In which some I have made mention about on this site.
So let me say this, it's not just a mind thing with God. Though He wants us to use our minds, the greater thing is that we use our hearts, the core of our beliefs. Because only when our selfish sin sickened beliefs and desires are turned towards God will we be able to be saved.
Another was to put it is: "until our desire to change is greater than our desire to remain the same, we will remain the same".
That is easy to see in the life of an alcoholic, or a drug addict. But it is also a requirement in getting saved.
Though you can't make those changes in yourself first, you simply have to come to the point that you are willing to if God will save you.
As for your question about my denomination. I am a Christian first and foremost. But though I belonged to no church when I was saved, I first went to a Methodist church and couldn't find what I was looking for, most likely because that wasn't the church God wanted me in. But in a few months I visited several other churches until I found the one I've been in since. It is an Independent Baptist church, and I've found that though Baptist don't have the exclusive corner stone on getting to Heaven. It is like going in first class. After all Jesus walked about 200 miles to get baptized by the first Baptist preacher there was.
Any questions feel free to ask!!!
So, go join your 'flock' and be a 'sheep'.
...If you're happy, that's a good thing. But this is a forum about freedom from religion... So you're not in the right place. Go to church, go hang out with your fellow sheep... And graze upon the fields of glory.
Or something.
Funny, Atheism isn't a tax-exempt cult that owns hundreds of thousands of square miles of property in the United States.
Maybe it's different where you're from, do Atheists have buildings with a giant 'A' on the side? Do they have giant effigies of Christopher Hitchens that they demand be allowed in schools?
Enough of your half-assed definition lookups.
re·li·gion
rəˈlijən/
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
Atheism is not a religion, buddy. It may be a belief system, perhaps even a convention if you will.
But atheists do not worship any one particular man, woman, deity or the like. So by that definition alone, your argument contradicts itself.
"People who do not believe in the supernatural, or any god or gods believe in the supernatural, or god or gods." ....What?
Nobody can prove anything to you, Chuck. You insist that others are wrong, by denying the evidence they put forth. But if anyone denies yours, you get defensive and make circular arguments.
Look up the appendix, tailbone without a tail, wisdom teeth and so forth in the human body. Where in your religious 'proof' does it say that your god would give us useless body parts? Evolution is slowly getting rid of those, and at one point we did use them. But the process is slow, so those parts stuck around.
Your arguments are nothing except entirely circular, and you provide no basis for your argument other than your childish attitude towards debate: the "Nuh uh!" attitude specifically.
And they really can't stop me from doing what I want! If the police pull me over, I'm stopping on my own volition, mostly because I don't like prison. I could continue driving, but it isn't wise given laws about speeding or whatever violation I may have committed. Obeying a law is an act of will, or a lack of malice for others.
Could I take a shotgun into a shopping mall and kill everyone wearing white shirts? Yes. Will I? No. Why won't I? Because I think killing people pointlessly is wrong, and on top of that people who murder are usually sent to prison. Besides, those people did me no wrong, why should I harm them?
I don't need some 'sky master' to tell me that its wrong. No thanks, I make my own decisions.
That does NOT change that I have that choice. This doesn't mean the police, judges and lawmakers are my masters, it just means that if they respond to something I'm doing, its wise to cooperate with them and avoid trouble.
Religion is NOT the same as taxes, the police or school. And if taxes, police and schools ever became religious institutions, I'd probably flee the country or revolt. The USA was formed on secular ideology, a separation of church and state. Sharia law, like in Afghanistan is law based on what some religious text says, and people kill each other over that crap.
And I never said that I 'know it all' there, buddy. It is impossible for a human being to know everything! But I do know some very realistic things, formed from very realistic evidence and trial/error and that is much better than knowing nothing. It is also WORLDS believing what some semi-literate desert tribesmen wrote 2,000 years ago!
I pity you. You seek solace in a fictional belief system, then rant on a forum to make yourself feel bigger. There is no proof you'd believe anyway, because your brainwashing has been completed by the sounds of it.
I hold true things that can be observed, demonstrated or repeated. I hold false anything that was written that demands that I obey simply "because".
You make a half-hearted comparison between religion and law. Laws are established for safety, fairness in societal dealings and a pre-determined set of values.
The law says: "It's wrong to murder someone, because someone's done that, it hurt the victim's family and the victim (obviously) so lets not let people do that without punishing them. It will discourage future murders."
Religion, on the other hand simply says "Killing is bad, because god."
Which, as I said before, the bible NEVER actually says that killing is bad outright.
It DOES say that if you beat your slave and he doesn't die until 3 days after, that's cool. It also says if anyone works on the sabbath day, you can KILL them because you're supposed to. It says all kinds of detestable things about killing.... Shoot, Jesus supposedly kills a damn tree because it didn't give him figs!
So don't try to 'assert the higher ground'. You won't be convinced, I get it, we get it, and I sincerely pity you for it.
So go frolic among your happy christian masters. Your god outranks you, your priests outrank you, and you are tiny among them.
I, on the other hand am happy to be among fellow freethinkers, humanists, Atheists and agnostics. Because we all generally see each other as peers.
You want proof on evolution? Read some books, Chuck. Books that were written with a consensus among many scientists, historians, geologists, and archaeologists... INSTEAD of a book written by dusty old men two millennium ago.
We've got fossils, DNA, hundreds of years of biological observation of the natural world, chemistry....
...You've got a single, crummy set of books. We don't HAVE to prove anything to you, but if you won't 'believe' anything we provide anyway... That's your own issue.
I leave you with a quote from Stephen Hawking: "Religion is the same thing as finding comfort under a blanket when you are afraid of the dark."
Lastly, the big bang was proven to an extent. It is a theory, and you don't seem to understand what a theory is... But I won't bother explaining those complicated things to you, so relax.
Galaxies are moving farther apart, they are not stationary.
Thus, there must have been an event to cause their motion and resulting momentum. Whoaaaaa, science.
NordicFox
I can't help but feel like you're a crybaby. How is it that so many don't read what this site is about. It clearly states that this is a site to debate. And it welcomes every view to debate, not to just agree with someone who thinks everyone should take his word for it.
I don't have much time right now to go into everything you bring up, because I get to go to church thanks to my Lord. But I at least need to say this: I know someone who has offered $200,000 for for someone to have their useless tail bone removed. If you want to take up that offer let me know. By the way you'll need to have some artificial help using the bathroom for the rest of your life and you'll have to give up sex to. But if that's ok with you he will pay you to do it. Maybe you should do more research before you spout off about something you don't know what you're talking about. And also I have already discussed some of the claims your making.
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