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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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"we are used of people like you"
I don't seek to be a novelty.
"imposing an imaginary religion on us"
You're simply demonstrating the first sentence in my OP: "Atheism is the religious tradition whose adherents deny their own faith."
Everyone's got faith and religion.
"we don't know"
Some atheists think they know.
"I make the guess that the reason is likely a natural one"
And thus, you have faith in a godless universe. Even with this, however, you have your own objects of worship, idols to your false gods.
@Watchman TC (use the @, it is easier then to see who you are talking with)
Simply asserting things about complete strangers will not make it true. It is true that humans are somewhat attracted to supernatural thinking and so, religions.
Some atheists think they know, good for them. But it is not me, or likely anyone you will see on this forum. You can't generalize an entire population, it's like saying that because some muslims commit terrorists attacks, all of them support this and would do it too.
A guess is not an act of faith. Faith is asserting, knowing something is true in the absence of evidence for said assertion. Even if some god-like entity where to be discovered, why would it be the one you professes having faith in?
Why don't you provide us with at least, one piece of evidence?
"asserting things about complete strangers"
Like saying: "humans are somewhat attracted to supernatural thinking and so, religions."
As for Islam, I've read the Qur'an and some Hadith -- and therefore I know their religion supports terrorism. Those Muslims who truly believe it's a "religion of peace" simply don't know their own scripture and its orthodox interpretation.
Blind faith is indeed believing something is true in the absence of evidence. Biblical faith, on the other hand, is trust based on evidence and experience.
"Even if some god-like entity where to be discovered, why would it be the one you professes having faith in?"
Not interested in counterfactual hypotheticals. I prefer reality.
"Why don't you provide us with at least, one piece of evidence?"
The evidence of God is abundant in creation, even manifest within you as an image-bearer of God, but you suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
"Like saying: "humans are somewhat attracted to supernatural thinking and so, religions."" I don't know like the vast majority of humans in History having been religious?
I do not deny what you are saying about the Koran and the Hadiths. The fact is that not all of them do it, regardless of the reasons.
"Blind faith is indeed believing something is true in the absence of evidence. BIBLICLAL faith, on the other hand, is trust based on EVIDENCE and EXPERIENCE".
Then show it.
Abundant in creation? Please be more specific.
"Then show it."
It's already shown in everything that can be seen -- I am not the shower and provider of such things -- and your willful ignorance of it is why you have no excuse for all the sinning you do.
You know, nobody can show the evidence of rainbows to a blind man.
You are just being dishonest here, you claim something and you won't provide any evidence, seems suspicious to me... And furthermore, "in everything that can be seen" has no explanatory power whatsoever. Oh there is a Sun, God did it!!!. Do you realize that Native Americans, Precolombian peoples, Sumerians, Ancients Greeks could claim the exact thing as you, and this is with all the contradictions between the thousands of deities ever imagined by men.
And know i am sinning, and not a little amount, whoah! Stop your pretentious preaching and judgement and maybe what will go out from your mouth will be viewed with something more than derision.
Some questions, would you provide your levels of understanding in:
-Physics
-Chemistry
-Biology
-Mathematics
Your knowledge on the history of Christianity and other religions?
"Do you realize that Native Americans, Precolombian peoples, Sumerians, Ancients Greeks could claim the exact thing as you, and this is with all the contradictions between the thousands of deities ever imagined by men."
The preponderance of false beliefs doesn't impugn the truth. Just because you're in the dark, that doesn't mean the darkness is universal.
You're not just sinning now, but you've sinned all your life and you just can't stop.
"provide your levels of understanding in [STEM]"
I've taken university level physics and math, and excelled in these subjects. I've been a professional software architect for over 25 years.
Here's your main problem:
You've positioned yourself to evaluate the evidence of God, who is spirit, according to your preconceived naturalistic worldview (the belief that only natural laws, forces, matter and energy exist), which is an error.
I'm a big fan of natural science, but when we reduce our vision to only that which is detectable by natural science, we see only that which is detectable by natural science -- the creation, and not the Creator.
If you desire to maintain your naturalistic worldview, then, keeping yourself fooled is a simple matter of narrowing your knowledge to only that which natural science can reveal. Narrowing one’s knowledge to the naturalistic capacity of science results in an impoverished worldview, which suits the ultimate aim of all unbelievers: willful ignorance of God helps to maintain the denial of one's sin, and the righteous judgment of it.
Why endeavor to explore a metaphysical subject by physical means? There's only one reason to pursue this irrational course: in order to ensure that your investigation will fail, keeping yourself in darkness and far from the true Light, who is Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14, 3:18-20).
(Scriptural citations provided for your future reference.)
And yet when you propose that "A good, unbiased start would be to frame all relevant curriculum around the top five most widely-held religions", you only mention perspectives that are visibly manifest on this planet.
Kids can learn about those perspectives you appear to favor by indulging in sci-fi, fantasy and comics. Don't need that in school.
Why do you distinguish between genres you consider fictional and religions you consider fictional?
Because I understand category distinctions.
@Watchman TC
You are glossing over my point. I don't care about theses beliefs being true or false. The fact is that they posit the natural world as an evidence for their deities, which your are doing too.
"You're not just sinning now, but you've sinned all your life and you just can't stop."
"I've taken university level physics and math, and excelled in these subjects. I've been a professional software architect for over 25 years."
From what you have posted since you came up here, it doesn't seem so.
It doesn't matter if your God is spirit or whatever, if it interacts with the natural world, we can detect it.
In what ways am I "sinning"? Why couldn't i stop myself or with the help of other? Your religion is the most anti-human system of belief ever conceived.
"There's only one reason to pursue this irrational course: in order to ensure that your investigation will fail, keeping yourself in darkness and far from the true Light, who is Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14, 3:18-20)."
In what ways the first reference establish God as a spirit. First define what a spirit is? The second reference is just a scare tactic.
You know what would be a evidence of something very unnatural? I am sited at a wood table, carbonate matter. The transformation of all this masse in pure gold, without the nee of the extreme natural conditions of a supernovae...
"Extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence".
"scare tactic."
What about my comments comes across as a scare tactic?
Do not forget to answer me. So you asking me what is a scare tactic in your post? Maybe the verse John 3 18-20:
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
Do you think the justice system is a scare tactic?
@Watchman TC: "Atheism is the religious tradition whose adherents deny their own faith."
Poor confused child. You are right and the world around you is wrong. I can't help but wonder how you cross the big street on your own. The depth of your moronic nonsense literally knows no bounds. Thank you for sharing with us the CORRECT definition of atheism. We will give it all the attention it deserves.
Okay, now that that is over, what other inane moronic comments would you like to make.
"EVERYONE HAS FAITH AND RELIGION"
While the statement is certainly false, we atheists completely understand why you have made it. This is what happens to people raised in religious traditions. When you live in a world of fantasy and delusion, it is only natural to assume those around you are living in the same world. You are completely unable to imagine a world without faith or belief. Don't think of this as a limit on your intelligence related to a lower than average IQ. It is just the fact that you are unable to clearly see the world around you due to the moronic beliefs that have been shoved into your brain. We would demonstrate this to you with facts and evidence but realistically we do not have to. We are not here to change you. We are just providing you with an environment to unload all the bullshit that has been stuffed in you brain. You just keep posting. You will eventually get to a point where you realize the utter ignorance of your assertions.
Atheism does not require a belief - it only requires a lack of belief in the existence of gods.
It does not require a view on how the universe came about.
The OP assumes that the universe had a cause.
"Atheism does not require a belief"
Now there's an absurd and unexamined assertion. Check this out:
Do you believe what you've said about atheism?
"It does not require a view on how the universe came about."
If you wish to have a rational worldview, then it requires a view that the universe has either eternally existed or came into existence at some point. I've not once said that you must know *how* -- just *that* it has -- and that it could have happened without God.
"The OP assumes that the universe had a cause."
I assume nothing.
An atheist could explicitly have a belief that gods do not exist, but having such a belief is not an essential part of what makes a person an atheist. Only a lack of belief in the existence of gods is.
Having a viewpoint that is proportionate to the evidence is rational. If it cannot be determine either way that the universe is eternal or that it had a creator, it would be rational to have no opinion either way.
You made various assumptions about atheists in your OP, which by implication show that you believe that god is necessary for existence.
My beliefs regarding God aren't based on assumptions.
"Having a viewpoint that is proportionate to the evidence is rational."
The evidence is abundant and obvious, but you choose to deny it.
Again, you're making assumptions.
You're attempting to shift the burden of proof, even though you're the one making the claim. You still haven't provided any actual evidence of your first claim, nevermind your claim now that atheists are denying evidence. Which evidence are atheists denying?
"Again, you're making assumptions."
Please be specific.
"shift the burden of proof"
I feel no burden to prove anything to you because I consider you to be the judge of nothing, especially with regard to God.
Are you looking for scientific evidence for God?
I said you are making assumptions about what atheists deny, and what the consider abundant and obvious.
But according to you earlier, the evidence of god is "abundant and obvious". So why would you now say that you have no burden to prove something to people who do not belief in a position, if you believe the evidence is abundant and obvious? Surely those are exactly the people you should be trying to prove your position to...rather than those who already believe?
Is there any other kind of evidence other than the "scientific" kind?
It would be stupid to attempt to provide evidence of the supernatural, considering that the supernatural is non-phenomenal - i.e. not natural, and thus certain to not be observable. For all practical purposes, the supernatural does not exist. I thus find your claims that the evidence for god being "abundant and obvious" to be ludicrous if only for that reason.
"I said you are making assumptions about what atheists deny, and what the consider abundant and obvious."
That's not specific. Please provide a quote from me that you consider to be an assumption.
"why would you now say that you have no burden to prove something to people who do not belief in a position."
Because you have all the evidence you need, yet you suppress the truth. I really can't help you out of that mess.
"For all practical purposes, the supernatural does not exist."
Let's say someone tells you about a classic rock radio station broadcasting in your area, and you would like to verify this claim. Would you try to tune in this station using a smoke detector? If your smoke detector fails to play classic rocks hits, what then? Maybe you conclude that this radio station may not exist, or maybe you conclude that it certainly doesn't exist. One thing's for sure: you'd be making a serious mistake by believing a smoke detector should work for this purpose.
You're trying to use an instrument for physical investigation -- natural science -- on a metaphysical subject. Narrowing your perception in this manner is a powerful way to ignore a whole lot of knowledge. If ignorance of the truth of God is what you seek, you've got the right formula.
Just as you won't find smoke detectors and radios in the same aisle in the store, because they serve different needs, natural science and true religion are not in competition. Attempting to use science in a theological context -- say, to develop philosophies about unobservable origins (big bang, abiogenesis, evolution) -- is to misuse and abuse science.
Your ignorance is willful. You're trying to keep yourself in darkness rather than coming into the Light.
I actually quoted you...the only new assumption in that particular post was:
"The evidence is abundant and obvious, but you choose to deny it."
I'm not assuming that. I see the evidence, and you don't.
You haven't actually provided any evidence that you know that I choose to deny something.
By comparison, you don't get me saying "I know you choose to be stupid".
You're in the position of a flat earther, understand. They claim that nobody has provided any evidence that the earth is spheroid, as many people claim.
Fact is, I've been born again and the Holy Spirit indwells me as a believer in Jesus Christ and bears witness that I'm a child of God. This is my experience, my knowledge and my testimony. Furthermore, I've been in your place as an atheist and suppressed the truth for decades, so I can say with confidence that you choose to stay in darkness.
It's obvious in your decision to accept only natural science as the means to know of God, which is an wholly inappropriate use of science.
If "God" told you to slaughter a child, would you do it?
As I said, "For all practical purposes, the supernatural does not exist."
If a being is defined as being outside the laws of nature, and thus does not manifest itself as some phenomenon, for all practical purposes, it does not exist. I have a lot better things to do with my time than to wonder if things exist that can never be observed.
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