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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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I cannot know if anything exists outside the universe, thus I cannot speak of it. I cannot know that the universe does not exist within an open system without any boundaries, for example.
I see -- you're a multiverse kind of guy. You must be a big fan of sci-fi.
Let's try this another way, then:
So you believe everything in this universe is predetermined, since you believe everything in this universe acts according to laws?
I never said I'm a "multiverse kind of guy".
If the universe can be defined as an entity, by definition, it is bounded by laws that predetermine everything in it. It isn't a question of what I believe.
@Watchman TC
Poor confused child. You really need to be on this site. You don't even know that the laws of physics are descriptive and not prescriptive. You appear completely unaware that they change depending on what we observe, measure, and are able to predict. Your poor delusional mind is to caught up in fantasy to see what is in front of your face. We feel sorry for you. Please keep posting your bullshit. You will come to the end eventually.
Theists enjoy confusing religious faith with secular faith. As is the case with many words, there is sometimes multiple meanings to any single word. It is right there in the dictionary after all: religious faith is "belief without evidence to support it". Secular faith would be "trust in a person or thing".
"belief without evidence to support it"
Speaking of which, do you believe that life emerged naturally from a system of non-living matter at some point in the past?
Why don't we stick to proving your opening assumptions first?
"Why don't we stick to proving your opening assumptions first?"
No. I have no desire to prove anything to you. Please answer my question:
Do you believe that life emerged naturally from a system of non-living matter at some point in the past? Y/N
@Watchman TC
"No. I have no desire to prove anything to you." Why come here then, you want us to blindly accept what you are saying. Do you think it is unfair of you to require us answering you but not the other way around?
edit for typo
I'm here for two reasons only: To expose the error of atheism and to share the gospel.
"unfair of you to require us answering you but not the other way around?"
Answers you'll get, and answers I expect in return, but I'm not your proof-monkey.
@Watchman TC
Roooooooooooooohhhh. No one here said you were a monkey. But... most of us here know the gospel, a lot of us here were christians in the past.
You did not answer when i said your scare tactic was the verses of John 3 (18-20).
And for the error of atheism, i am waiting to see.
"You did not answer when i said your scare tactic was the verses of John 3 (18-20)."
That wasn't a question, but I did reply. I asked, "Do you think the justice system is a scare tactic?"
"i am waiting to see."
You'll need to more than wait -- you'll need to repent of your sins.
@Watchman TC
Yes imagining a "justice" system that punish people to eternal torment is a scare tactic.
I'm talking about the actual justice system in your country. Please try to answer the question.
@Watchman TC
If you want to know about the justice system in France, google it. By the way, modern systems are much more proportional to the gravity of the infraction than ever.
But, you know i was talking about these specific verses (John 3 18-20, that was?), so do not play the ignorant with me since it was the start of this sub-discussion between us.
edit
@Watchman TC
How do you know the sinner? Is it your duty to point out the sinner and warn them? Was this duty given to you or a torch you decided to carry? Are you a sinner? Is anyone not a sinner?
Which God should I believe in?
If you have no desire with debating the thread topic in The Debate Room, you are in immediate danger of @Nyarlathotep banning you from the forum. So I suggest you change tack quick.
edit: grammar
Debating need not include me submitting to your demands for proof. Just check out the debate between Bahnsen and Stein. Nobody would argue that that wasn't a debate.
Fact is, I cannot open your eyes. All I can do is expose your error and share the truth using reason.
Debating on this forum generally requires debating the thread topic. It is in the forum guidelines.
If you won't defend your position, or are unable to do so, why continue to respond to those who actually want to debate the position?
I also suggest you stop with your ad hominems.
You go ahead and cry for mommy and we'll see if the mod wants to delete this debate.
As though that is worse than endlessly crying for god, as you have done in this thread.
Why would they delete a debate, however one-sided?
I've not once cried for God in this thread, but you've spent a lot of posts driving it off-topic.
You've spent half the thread calling the people in this thread sinners and telling us to repent or else. I think for you ideally, you'd wish to be doing that 100% of the time: you have said that you are here to spread the gospel.
Half the thread? You really believe that doozy? I've been mostly talking about my claim that atheism is a faith and results in worldviews full of error. Now try to get yourself back on topic. I will no longer engage you anything that's unrelated to my OP.
@Watchman: "do you believe that life emerged naturally?" It's always a pleasure to address the poor mindless trolls that grace the site. How you guys work yourselves into restrictive little corners of black or white logic is truly amazing. Belief is allocated to the same degree evidence avails itself. All anyone can tell you is that the amino acids that are the primary elements of life can be created in a laboratory from inorganic materials. That is a fact. All else is merely fantasy. Still, the evidence does seem to support organic life from inorganic matter. There is no evidence but your own silly conclusions supporting the God hypothesis. You have admitted this yourself by your inability to do anything but make inane and moronic assertions. I am genuinely surprised that you are able to continue posting idiotic comments without embarrassing yourself . The good news is that when you grow up, these posts will remain on the internet and you will be able to look back and see the sort of fool you have been. We look forward to seeing you again at that time. I would give you evidence and facts supporting my assertions but ,,,, I don't have to. I'm not here to change you. I only want to point out the error of your ways.
What exactly do you mean by natural/naturally?
For example: is a bird's nest natural? What if the nest was made by a human? Can you give a few examples of natural things and non-natural things to help us out?
In this philosophical context, "natural" is distinguished from "supernatural" and "spiritual." My worldview includes all three.
I'm not using "natural" in opposition to "manmade," "artificial" or "synthetic."
Thus, in the sense I'm using the term, a bird's nest is natural, even when constructed by a human.
Materialism is a subcategory of naturalism, and most atheists I interact with subscribe to both, believing that immaterial abstractions such as cognition, morality, emotions, justice and love -- while real phenomena -- ultimately emerge from materialistic causes that find their source in electrochemical reactions occurring somewhere within the brainpan of human beings. Things become trickier for them when it comes to the laws of physics and logic, however, but I digress.
@Watchman TC: A bird's nest is natural? What if it is a spiritual bird's nest? How can a bird's nest be natural if it was made by a creature that was made by
God? Ha ha ha ha ha ...... Are all bird's nests natural? How would you know? If you ran across a birds nest in the forest just sitting there. What logic would you use to assert it is natural? And if it was a spiritual bird's nest, how would you know? Can you assert that there are no spiritual bird's nests? Your assertions are so idiotic. Everyone knows bird's nests are spiritual. I would give you facts to prove this but I don't have to. I am just showing you your error. I do not have to prove bird's nests are spiritual. That is not how debate works. I don't have to respond to your stupid questions. Let's debate some more, this is fun.
Your worldview is including two things that you can demonstrate no objective evidence for. We know natural phenomena exist as an objective fact, we know a universe exists for an objective fact, so if you're going to use an argument from ignorance fallacy to try and reverse the burden proof then the response is twofold, firstly nothing can be rationally asserted as true because of a lack of contrary evidence, and secondly you;re the one positing the universe emerged from something you are unable to objectively evidence. Unless of course you have objective for the existence of a deity, in which case it's rather odd that you're wasting a so much bandwidth with your vapid rhetoric, but then this is nearly always the case with every single theist I've ever encountered.
Watchman, we are used of people like you imposing an imaginary religion on us. What do you not understand in the word Atheism? For the appearance of the Universe as we know it, we are just saying that we don't know. And since we have successfully explained a wide range of phenomena with the use of science, I make the guess that the reason is likely a natural one.
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