God's Love.

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FievelJ's picture
@Johan

@Johan

Why are you so convinced that this god exists?

You know there's thousands of cultures in this world, and 3200 plus religions. Christianity is just the most popular at the time. BUT. None are correct, as they were all man made.

boomer47's picture
@Fievel

@Fievel

"You know there's thousands of cultures in this world, and 3200 plus religions."

I think that's 30,000

--and as for gods, Hindus alone have 15 MILLION.

Experiences described as 'spiritual' and 'mystical" can be created with drugs, self hypnosis (as an intentional discipline) and some forms of meditation.

I have had such an experience once, with none of the things mentioned above. I solved a Zen koan. I'd had it tucked away for about 5 years. The answer just came to me one afternoon as I was walking through the park on my way home from work, about 40 years ago.. I must add that I was in my usual state at such times;"thumb in bum, mind in neutral" as they say.

I will not try to describe my experience. I will say only that it matched accounts of mystical experiences and of samadhi I had read.
The experience lasted for about 20 minutes before ending. The answer to the koan was non verbal and after the experience I could no longer remember it.

I have never been able to repeat the experience, which makes sense. It seems to me that it can only come in a certain state of mind and without effort.

It is all but impossible to deliberately NOT think of a specific thing.

So, If Johan is being honest and not a troll, I believe he could have the kinds of experiences he has reported. I do not believe the experiences had anything to do with a god.

I remain at square one. The existence of any god needs first to be proved before anything can be attributed to such a being.

Perhaps a strict definition of any god claimed should first be established .

FievelJ's picture
@cranky47

@cranky47

I once meditated on the floor of my room at my parents house. I was very convinced I had an out of body experience.
I was high and drunk at the time, and had this experience that I was looking at everything from outside my body.

Years later I realized that it probably was all in my head, it felt so real at the time though. I look back at that and realize that it never happened, besides in my head. If this guy is not a troll and is really convinced god is real okay. But I know what you know, god isn't anymore real than my experience which happened all in my head.

Hey man thanks, I love reading your stuff, and nearly always agree.

1+0? Yikes make it a little more difficult. LOL.

boomer47's picture
@Fievel

@Fievel

Thank you for the kind words, appreciated.

"Years later I realized that it probably was all in my head, "

LOL. Well, yes, where would such an experience be? Do you mean you thought your consciousness had actually left your body?

Over the years I've been able to test a couple of people claimed they could 'astrally project" at any time . Simple test. I asked them to describe what I was wearing (miles away) and to describe/read the cover of a book on my coffee table. Each failed miserably.

I have also tested mediums, twice. Also really easy: I told them outrageous lies. Each ran with the lies. Each also became really snitty whenI told them later.

The belief in out of body experiences is ancient and still widely believed as far as I know. Christians of most flavours are taught anything smacking of the occult is demonic . (The word 'occult' only means 'hidden')

Also worth having a look at 'dissociative states ", which are relatively common. I've had them.

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The wiki explanation is pretty good:

An out-of-body experience (OBE or sometimes OOBE) is an experience in which a person experiences the world from a location outside their physical body. An OBE is a form of autoscopy (literally "seeing self"), although the term autoscopy more commonly refers to the pathological condition of seeing a second self, or doppelgänger.

The term out-of-body experience was introduced in 1943 by G. N. M. Tyrrell in his book Apparitions,[1] and was adopted by researchers such as Celia Green[2] and Robert Monroe[3] as an alternative to belief-centric labels such as "astral projection" or "spirit walking". OBEs can be induced by traumatic brain injuries, sensory deprivation, near-death experiences, dissociative and psychedelic drugs, dehydration, sleep disorders and dreaming and electrical stimulation of the brain,[4] among others. It can also be deliberately induced by some.[5] One in ten people have an OBE once, or more commonly, several times in their life.[6][7]

Neuroscientists and psychologists regard OBEs as dissociative experiences arising from different psychological and neurological factors.[5][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

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"Dissociation is any of a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from physical and emotional experiences. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality, rather than a loss of reality as in psychosis.[1][2][3][4]

Dissociation is commonly displayed on a continuum.[5] In mild cases, dissociation can be regarded as a coping mechanism or defense mechanisms in seeking to master, minimize or tolerate stress – including boredom or conflict.[6][7][8] At the non-pathological end of the continuum, dissociation describes common events such as daydreaming. Further along the continuum are non-pathological altered states of consciousness.[5][9][10]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_%28psychology%29

Whitefire13's picture
@Cranky - thanks for the info

@Cranky - thanks for the info ...I often wondered about this, but never really looked into it ...

FievelJ's picture
@cranky47

@cranky47

it is still of course all psychological experiences, all in one's head. We of course know the soul does not exist. If it does I will find that out at death. I seriously doubt it though, as death is probably just like before one is born.

Thanks For The Read. ;-)

Johan's picture
https://www.atheistrepublic

@cranky47

"Experiences described as 'spiritual' and 'mystical" can be created with drugs, self hypnosis (as an intentional discipline) and some forms of meditation. "

That is just the difference between religion and the Real God. It is not man made.

Acts 2
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

"Perhaps a strict definition of any god claimed should first be established"

The Real God is the One with Real Love. That is the One calling Himself Father able to give birth to you as His Child and thus being the Same as He is. That is unselfish Love worthy of a God. Anything less is not worth pursuing.

toto974's picture
@Johan

@Johan

"That is just the difference between religion and the Real God. It is not man made."

That was hilarious. How do you know? By using tquotes from the christian bible, you imply it is the true one, so stop being vague and just postulate the abrahamic one.

"That is unselfish Love worthy of a God. Anything less is not worth pursuing."

The one selling people to eternal torment if we do not bow to him? You life must be very sas if you think merely human things are not worth pursuing.

edited

Johan's picture
Because i met Him personally.

Because i met Him personally. And this you will hear from all Christians. But not from any other religion. And He is Really a Father. He gave birth to me as His Child 40 years ago. I grew up as His Child. And 20 years ago i became and Adult and His Bride for 10 years and then it change to His Wife. For 10 years now.

So I am now giving birth to our Children.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101944621505659&set=a.1019446481...

And I live with them. Even right here on the Internet.

https://twitter.com/Mpiras3/status/1216070915529879552

https://twitter.com/Mpiras3/status/1216070915529879552

https://youtu.be/WTBnxQoiUvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf5sWJ7eQac

Nyarlathotep's picture
@ Johan

@ Johan
stop posting self promotional links

dogalmighty's picture
LBTL

IBTL

Johan's picture
@Nyariathotep

@Nyariathotep

You think there was a "self promotional link"? Judging my links to promote myself? But yo don't give any evidence on one. Humans tend to make judgment mistakes because they are not anointed by God to Judge yet. So they act as if they can while they usually miss.

https://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/gods-love?page=6#comm...

So here is a link again. Tell me what you think.

Whitefire13's picture
Hahahajajajahhhh...

Hahahajajajahhhh...

Nyar is my “judge”
Keeps me in line...
Never allows an overstep,
Thy protector and Savior

Randomhero1982's picture
Read the OP.

Read the OP.

Laughed.

Muttered, "What a load of bollocks"

Laughed.

Felt compelled to share.

Johan's picture
Good. I am happy you are

Good. I am happy you are here. So you know now what I am about.

https://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/gods-love?page=6#comm...

boomer47's picture
@Thread

@Thread

The content of and tone Johan's posts (assuming he isn't a troll) jogged my memory.

A sad story actually: A lovely woman at work's hubby was arrested, charged and imprisoned for child sex abuse. Poor lady went quite peculiar and came over all religious. She became an Anglican priest. (Catholic lite)

The one positive thing I remember is how the entire staff of that office were highly supportive and protective of her.

I think Johan mentioned some deeply distressing events in his life. That his faith has given him comfort.

Gee I hope he's a troll. Would hate to cause a person in such a fragile mental state any distress. However, I can't help but ask why a person in such a state would come to an atheist site for comfort and support ?

FievelJ's picture
@cranky47

@cranky47

"Gee I hope he's a troll. Would hate to cause a person in such a fragile mental state any distress. However, I can't help but ask why a person in such a state would come to an atheist site for comfort and support ?"

I don't know either, and I don't understand how people can be so sure that their god talks to them. I might have a different state of mind if he would actually talk to me, but then I would ask him many questions. Why place homosexuality in the bible as a sin? Why place a flood in the bible which never happened, and there's no proof of it. Why not explain about the Supercontinent which happened, the earth split many years ago. Why cause a global flood in the first place, what was the lesson? Where the fuck did the six day period time frame come from when the universe was hear close to 9 billion years before earth?

I would ask a lot of questions, as he'd have a lot of explaining to do.

And lastly Christianity is only around 6 or 7 thousand years old.
Before Christianity they believed in other gods. 10,000 years ago, no one ever heard of it, even in the so called holy lands. This religion stuff has got to stop, and people think they've talked to Allah too, but haven't really. It is all in his head.

Johan's picture
You are right. Someone

You are right. Someone looking for comfort and support will not go to those that He knows will have a huge problem with Him.

https://forums.delphiforums.com/king/messages/?msg=454.1

So this was not the reason.

The actual reason is that I am a Savior. Created by God to be one. And this is the Ultimate Life that exists.

https://twitter.com/johanabrahams2/status/1225024569729343495

Tin-Man's picture
@Johan Re: "The actual

@Johan Re: "The actual reason is that I am a Savior. Created by God to be one. And this is the Ultimate Life that exists."

...*timidly raising hand from back of room*.... Uh, er, uh... Excuse me, um, Mr. Savior guy... Um... Not trying to be a party pooper or anything... but.... uhhh.... your attempts at saving anybody here have missed their mark by a loooooooong way. So, uh, if you don't mind a bit of advice, you might want to consider calling a brief time-out and consulting with your god about a better game plan. Because if you are following his instructions on this, he is setting you up for complete failure. Oh, and, uh, meanwhile.... *holding up white long-sleeve jacket adorned with multiple buckles*... could I interest you in trying on this new customized jacket I made for you? It is from my line of "Hug Me Tender" fashion styles. Also, we have a very soft and comfy room reserved just for you so that you can have a nice private and uninterrupted pow-wow with your god.... *handing over small dixie cup*... And here is a delicious and calming bit of special tea to help you better relax. Don't want you being all tense and frustrated when you have that meeting with your god....

Whitefire13's picture
@Tin

@Tin

Fuckin’Christ... I love saviour types (dripping sarcasm) ...usually “knights in shining armour” - never was interested much in the “lord over you” type or the whole “play victim AND control” you type of saviour...

Johan's picture
@Tin-Man

@Tin-Man
Thanks. Nice post. But seems you are just giving us now your feelings on the words i used. And those are clouding your mind in making you say things without evidence. Giving now a judgment that I am actually "mad". While it is just your opinion without evidence. And God is calling that "hypocrisy".

https://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/gods-love?page=7#comm...

So let my save you from yourself. God wants you to be a Real Judge. But then you have to give the evidence on it to make it a case. A Judge judge a case and doesn't give an opinion. So go back now and make a proper case. Here is an example.

Here is a "bread - man".

https://twitter.com/johanabrahams2/status/1230435994526195713

Here is a liar on the run

https://twitter.com/YTGGFI/status/1237055757998264320

Sheldon's picture
Johan " I am a Savior.

Johan " I am a Savior. Created by God"

Ok, enough is enough, you're delusional, and this persecuted saviour act is risible, and nauseating. There's nothing remotely humble about what your saying, you sound like a dangerous crackpot now, and my sincere advise would be to seek professional help.

And stop fucking preaching, or find a pulpit to do it from, as its tedious and disrespectful. This is an atheist debate forum, not a fucking recruiting ground for your new self agrandizing cult.

dogalmighty's picture
Amen.

Amen.

Johan's picture
@doG

@doG
You agree with Sheldon. Allowing his mind to be taken by the evil spirit of anger? Anger is no good. People do a lot of bad things with bad consequences when they allow for an evil spirit to take their minds captive and misuse it for its own gain. Seems it has taken yours too. They are like corona. Very contagious and deadly.

https://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/gods-love?page=7#comm...

dogalmighty's picture
No johan.

No johan.

He based his response on all the delusional things you have said to people on this thread...he said...

"Ok, enough is enough, you're delusional, and this persecuted saviour act is risible, and nauseating. There's nothing remotely humble about what your saying, you sound like a dangerous crackpot now, and my sincere advise would be to seek professional help.

And stop fucking preaching, or find a pulpit to do it from, as its tedious and disrespectful. This is an atheist debate forum, not a fucking recruiting ground for your new self agrandizing cult."

I agree with what he said.

Johan's picture
I can see you agree with the

@doG
I can see you agree with the evil spirit of anger. But that spirit cause a lot of unhappiness in the persons taken by it. And in his immediate surroundings too. As Children of God we believe in not allowing for it but to rather forgive because our Father died for the things that cause us to get angry or irritated or whatever. So we always Love. And in Love we can discipline someone in Love and Wisdom. This is not possible when taken by anger. Those rather use name-calling and swearing and fists to discipline. And afterwards feel embarrassed by their actions. And the breaking down of their precious relationships.

dogalmighty's picture
No johan, that is not the

No johan, that is not the evil spirit of anger...spirits are not evidenced in reality, and do not exist.

What you see is rational thought, by way of basic human reasoning. Me agreeing with shel, was not a display of anger at all, it was me rationally reasoning if shel was correct in his assessment of you, and in no way a display of anger.

Just because someone rationally disagrees with your view or beliefs, does not make them angry.

BTW, I or you, are not children of a non-existent unevidenced deity or god, we are children of our parents. Did either of your parents have mental health issues?

Sheldon's picture
Johan "You agree with Sheldon

Johan "You agree with Sheldon. Allowing his mind to be taken by the evil spirit of anger? "

PMLMAO, your verbiage doesn't warrant anger, just contempt, my initial pity for you has been exhausted. It's academic anyway, as you have failed to offer honest debate, and insist on ignoring forum rules, and posting self promotional material, so it;s highly probable we will be spared your superstitious sententious rhetoric in due course

Johan's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

"PMLMAO, your verbiage doesn't warrant anger, just contempt,"

This feeling you are now acting is totally opposite than that conveyed by your words that were anger. As can be seen in your cursing. Contempt which is also and evil spirit that you are admitting to now rather have different words as result. Seems you are trying to squirm out of anger and into contempt. Well going from the frying pan and into the fire is not really a Wise decision.

"my initial pity for you has been exhausted"

Yep. Humans can not control their feelings. But are blown like a leave all over the place by the wind. Seems you will have to conclude that you were misled by your "pity"? Because you never saw there was no reason for it in the first place.

Pity is rather from my side towards you. And it never stopped. Because it is motivated by Love as the Guiding principle. It can not be blown to and from. It is linked to your condition and stay true to your condition. Until you accept the remedy of course.

"It's academic anyway,"

Intellectual. Cold. No Relationships. Just interested in how you can selfishly gain some more knowledge without paying for more. Can you see my reason for "pity"? But mine is a higher feeling that normal human "pity". We call it compassion.

"failed to offer honest debate,"

Judging me again without any evidence. That makes you a hypocrite. Acting as if you have the ability to judge with only an opinion. You should refrain from such. Until you are on that Level. You might get away with it between the ignorant. But those having that Ability will quickly discipline you for your act of "self promotion".

" insist on ignoring forum rules, and posting self promotional material,"

This is rather you. As I just taught you. But you are welcome to find any such "self promotion" and link me. Because i always said that any Good you see in me is actually from God. I am actually Truly Humble. From God too. No "self promotion" this.

"so it;s highly probable we will be spared your superstitious sententious rhetoric in due course"

Seems the Truth you got for once in your life was really a "Pain". I know. i will not judge you as Atheistic Republic to find your place with Adam behind the bushes in your hiding from the Truth. Specially in your case where you are so clearly seen. But I did offer you redemption. You didn't want it so you will be stuck with the "uneasy feelings" for the rest of your life.

But of course. Part of the reason for my links was for those that want to find me again after the "ban" has forced me away from you. Love does not force. Hated does.

dogalmighty's picture
Your words and thoughts are

Your words and thoughts are hollow and meaningless, as they do not align with reality.

Your separation from reality, to an unevidenced "spiritual realm", is a bad sign. Delusional people almost always do this to meet the demands of their self formulated belief narrative, as a means of insulation from the often harsh feelings they encounter from truths.

As evidence of your delusions of grandeur, I present one of your last sentences for your post above...

"But of course. Part of the reason for my links was for those that want to find me again after the "ban" has forced me away from you."

I can assure you johan, nobody from this site thinks that anything you have said is anything other than a mental health issue talking, and do not find your words and beliefs enlightening or even sentient...nobody will want to find you if you are banned. There are more than enough self aggrandizing delusional folk seeking our company.

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