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chimp3's picture
Very funy Harry Truman! You

Very funy Harry Truman! You say there were three million. I say I am looking forward to the evidence. You provide a video of another guy saying there were three million. Your standard for evidence is very low.

ThePragmatic's picture
I wish I could agree to this

"Very funy Harry Truman! You say there were three million. I say I am looking forward to the evidence. You provide a video of another guy saying there were three million. Your standard for evidence is very low."

I wish I could agree to that post a couple of hundred times...

Sir Random's picture
"I wish I could agree to that

"I wish I could agree to that post a couple of hundred times..."

Duly noted.

Harry33Truman's picture
No he had an argument behind

No he had an argument behind it.
Just watch it in its entirety then try to negate it, this will help me revise my arguments and find any flaws in them.

Harry33Truman's picture
Dave Matson's picture
Kataclismic's picture
If you had proof you would

If you had proof you would know better than to come here with your arguments. If you seriously knew there was a god without a shadow of a doubt you would stay away from places like this because you would know that god obviously doesn't want us to know anything about him. To convince us that there is a god when god doesn't want us to know is a bit foolish. Eh? The fact that you need to come here and reaffirm your belief by presenting "proof" shows you have none. It's the whole concept of a "humble" believer in that if god exists then he will choose who follows him. Your books aren't convincing and your arguments aren't convincing because we've heard them a hundred times.

You think because you've read something and have feelings about it that you've found the true religion, just like millions and millions of others. These stories were started by people that were too simple to even read or write and every time we learn something new the story changes or the meaning changes or somebody finds a way to keep believing what they want to believe. It prohibits social unrest if they think a god is watching over them. If it wasn't for us atheists you'd still be thinking we lived on a flat plane and every time you felt an earthquake it was Geb having a big laugh at all us silly humans.

Harry33Truman's picture
Who says he doesn't want you
Harry33Truman's picture


Atheists are just as superstitious as theists, they just aren't theistic.


Attach Image/Video?: 

Dave Matson's picture
Harry Truman,

Harry Truman,

On the basis of some faulty deistic arguments you leap to the conclusion that we atheists are just as superstitious as theists. I'm not impressed! Maybe you should actually read some of the material put out by serious atheists. (No cherry picking!) One rational argument for rejecting god-belief may be found in my thread: "Science Gives God The Bump!" 08/07/2016 18:47. Most of us don't deal in superstition and resent such reckless posting by yourself.

Many theologians have the intellectual honesty to admit that there is no proof of God. Now, why would a highly intelligent, religious scholar admit that if some easy proof were just sitting there on the shelf? Perhaps, they know a thing or two that you have missed.

Harry33Truman's picture
No that was just a little

No that was just a little tidbit. Here is my source:

mykcob4's picture
The link doesn't support your

The link doesn't support your argument. It's a joke by Bill Maher about how the irrationality of christianity.
Try again junior.

Harry33Truman's picture
mykcob4's picture
Nope, not good enough. Proof

Nope, not good enough. Proof is proof.


Clear and Convincing Evidence
In some civil cases, the burden of proof is elevated to a higher standard called “clear and convincing evidence.” This burden of proof requires the plaintiff to prove that a particular fact is substantially more likely than not to be true. Some courts have described this standard as requiring the plaintiff to prove that there is a high probability that a particular fact is true. This standard sets a higher threshold than the preponderance of the evidence standard, but it does not quite rise to the widely recognized standard used in criminal cases, known as “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
The proof that every believer needs is simple. Present evidence that there is a god that is corroborated by credible witnesses, present independent documentation that confirms the witness testimony. Every time you believers only go half way. You present bible scripture which hearsay at best. Even at that, there is speculation given the fact that the bible has been edited so many times, has been incorrectly translated. The oldest bible that exists today says that there is no witness to the resurrection.
It's not a matter of what your little link suggest that we atheist simply dismiss believers evidence. We dismiss it because it isn't evidence at all. It's hearsay, uncorroborated, and unproven. So it isn't a matter of one party's word against another.

Harry33Truman's picture
"As the terms suggest, this

"As the terms suggest, this burden requires the plaintiff to put forth evidence in the form of witness testimony, documents, or objects."

Whittnesses- check
documents- check
objects- well you can't find an object that proves G-d spoke to Moses, video recorders didn't exist back then.

Here's a question; how do you know that the American revolution happened? Well first of all it was too big of an event to have been fabricated. Second there are written accounts.
Now, I could claim that there are no referances to the American colonies in Brittish records, and yes there wouldn't be many since they are not referanced much, but this isn't proof that it didn't happen is it?

Harry33Truman's picture
Harry33Truman's picture
I revert to my post, "not

I revert to my post, "not good enough," isn't an argument, saying that it isn't proof- also not an argument. I've presented an argument which proves my case- thus I have fulfilled my BOP. If you don't think that it proves G-d, SHOW how it isn't good enough, because until then I have a standing argument for the existence of G-d which has not been refuted.

Sir Random's picture
"standing argument"

"standing argument"

In the same way unclean standing water is a breeding ground for mosquitoes and disease, unproven "standing arguments" are breeding grounds for grandiose claims.

Harry33Truman's picture


I provided an argument, you and him can either accept it or provide a counter argument. No one has provided a counter argument thus you must accept it- or provide one. Logic 101

Sir Random's picture
For the last time, if YouTube

For the last time, if YouTube videos are the best you can do, you have nothing.

Harry33Truman's picture
Just because it is on you

Just because it is on you tube doesn't negate the arguments held therein, this is another ad hominid attack.

Harry33Truman's picture
That wasn't a you tube video-

That wasn't a you tube video- look, credible sources such as fox news post news stories on you tube, it is the source that matters not the medium by which it is transferred. For example, if Steven Hawking gave a lecture and it was posted on you tube, does that make him less credible?

I posted a link to one of my bloggspots, if you cannot refute it that's fine- though I must say I am disappointed, I thought that you would at least concoct- something. But this thing of pretending an argument isn't there because you don't like the conclusion isn't reason or logic- it's nonsense.

Like I said, I gave an argument, you have to either accept my conclusion or provide a counter argument. Saying I got it off of you tube is an ad hominid attack, so is saying that something isn't credible because it is on you tube, and so is saying that my argument is like stagnant water- that's not an argument.

Do you honestly think that I came here to tell you "you're going to hell?" HELL NO- I came here to start a discussion, but trying to deflect my arguments by saying "that won't do," or "that's not proof," doesn't really help, and neither of those statements are arguments.

mykcob4's picture
@Harry Truman

@Harry Truman
1) FOX Noise isn't a credible journalist resource. It's a rightwing nut propaganda media outlet.
2) You tube videos would be fine if they are supported with credible resources and not just some made up self-promotional garbage.
3) Just because YOU jumped to an illogical conclusion, doesn't mean we will or have to.
You prove a god with REAL evidence and then we can move forward. You have continually failed to do so, and blame US for your failures.

Kataclismic's picture
Welcome, Harry. I like your

Welcome, Harry. I like your style, maybe not the premise, but you definitely try to think for yourself and that's always a bonus.

ætherborn98's picture
@Harry Truman,

@Harry Truman,

Fist of all, hi.


"We believe that Christians are idol worshiping pagans since their Jesus is based on the Roman Sun God Sol, probably done by the Catholic Church. But the point is Jesus cannot be G-d since G-d is not a man, and there for Christians are worshiping a physical entity as G-d, which is idol worship. They also believe in 3 gods so they're polytheists too."

I would like to know how Christ is similar to the Roman's sun god sol.

And Christ is not G-d. He is fully LIKE G-d, but if Christ IS G-d, why would He pray for G-d to glorify Him? Why would He even pray to G-d if He IS G-d! Why pray to yourself!

Harry33Truman's picture
The Roman Sun God Sol was

The Roman Sun God Sol was born on December 25th, he then has a cycle until he does on the winter solstice (December 22) and is resurrected 3 days later, in effect being born, on December 25.
He is also called the light of the world (as this is what the sun is)

ætherborn98's picture
I don't understand. That

I don't understand. That doesn't even sound like Christ.

Harry33Truman's picture
I think it doeshttps://m
ætherborn98's picture
Ok, so I watched the vid,

Ok, so I watched the vid,


And here's my response [My responses will be in these tings "[ ]"].

John 17:2 As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou has given to Him. I have brought you glory on earth by finishing this work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory that I had with you before this world began.
Isaiah 42:8 I am the L-RD; that is my name! I shall not yield my glory to another or my praise to any idols.

[How is giving Christ the glory that He had with G-d before the world began "giving G-d's glory to another"? G-d doesn't FORFEIT His glory and praise to Christ, He glorified Christ, He GAVE Him glory. G-d did not forfeit any glory to give Christ glory. Therefore, this argument cannot stand because of this: G-d forfeited NO glory.]

John 10:30 The Father and I are one.”
John 20:28 Thomas said unto Him, “My L-RD and my G-d!”
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with G-d, and the Word was God. He was with G-d in the beginning. Through Him were all things made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the L-RD, the King of Israel, His redeemer the L-RD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no G-d.
Duet. 6:4 Hear, Israel: The L-RD our God, the L-RD is one.
Malachi 2:10 Do not we all have but one Father? Did not one G-d create all of us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to each other?
Duet. 10:17 For the L-RD your G-d is G-d of gods and He is L-RD of lords, the great G-d, mighty, awesome, who shows no partiality, who accepts no bribes.
Isaiah 45:5-6 I am the L-RD, there is no other; apart from me there is no G-d. I will give you strength, though you haven't acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know that there is none besides me. I am the L-RD, there is no other.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the L-RD—He who created the heavens, He is G-d; He who fashioned and made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but to be inhabited—He says: “I am the L-RD, there is no other.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the L-RD, your redeemer, He that formed thee from the womb, I am the L-RD that made all things; He who stretcheth forth the heavens alone; He who spreadeth abroad the earth by myself...

[The flaw with this argument is this: there is more than one G-d, because G-d MAKES gods. Christ is a god. All humans that are children of G-d are gods. Psalm 82: "I said, you are "gods"; you are sons of the most high." G-d is the G-d of the gods He makes. The gods He makes are His children. When G-d says, "there is no other," or "apart from me there is no other," and "beside me, there is no other," He means this: Without Him, no god can exist, because G-d created ALL things. He MADE Christ a god. So if Christ is our Lord, and He is a god, then indeed He is,"My Lord and my God." And He IS our Lord, David said in psalm 110,"The L-RD said to MY Lord (or master), sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool." And He created the world Himself yes...but He used Christ to do it. Through Christ, everything exists, because that's how G-d made it. Christ said,"The Father and I are one. "Yes...but in NATURE. Christ is clearly displayed as a separate entity than G-d. Do we all have one Father? Yes, and this Father MADE Christ and us.]

Isaiah 33:22 For the L-RD is our judge, lawgiver, and king; He will save us.
Duet.11:26-28 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if you obey the commandments of the L-RD your G-d, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye do not obey the commandments of the L-RD your G-d, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
John 5:20-23 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does: and He will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and gives them life; even so the Son gives life to whom He wills. For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son honoureth not the Father who has sent Him.
Mark 2:10 "But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the man...

[Christ is not a "god that we have not known." Who IS Christ? The WORD MADE FLESH. What is "the Word"? The law of G-d. That is the Word that He is. The Word reflects G-d's nature, and Christ is G-d in His very nature. THAT is the meaning of "the Father and I are one." I don't think that there even IS a trinity. Christ was given authority on earth to forgive sins. Note the "on earth." Christ said that He only spoke the Father's words. Christ's judgment is the judgment that His Father gives, because He does not do His own will, but the will of the Father who sent Him. If Christ judges how His Father commands, then it is G-d who is judging.]

"Why didn't He say until my Son comes or until the other part of my divinity comes. [Because the people were under the OLD COVENANT at the time. Christ initiated the New Covenant.]"

John 14:6 Christ answered, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"Now this is the most, to me, disgusting, obscene, evil statment ever written in the Christian bible. That you cannot go to the Father without His"[Christ's]"approval, or going through Him"[Christ]"."

["No one comes to the Father except through me." Who IS Christ? The WORD MADE FLESH. Have faith in the word of G-d...it's the same thing essentially as having faith in G-d.]

John 15:6 If you don't remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and they are burned.
Psalm 145:18 The L-RD is near to all who call on Him, all who call on him in truth.
Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and unsearchable things that you do not know.
"He doesn't talk about a mediator, He doesn't talk about a Son. It's "Call to me, and I'll answer you and show you wonderful things, things you did not know."

[Again, the people in Jeremiah 33:3 were under the OLD COVENANT. The Son and mediator are NEW COVENANT.]

"Ezekiel 18 is all about forgiveness and atonement."

Ezekiel 18:20-24 "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share in the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share in the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous shall be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be charged against them. But if a wicked person turns from all the sins that they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person shall surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses that they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they shall live. Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign L-RD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, doing the same detestable things the wicked person does, shall they live? None of the righteous things that that person has done will be remembered. And because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and the sins they have committed, they will die."

"He's asking this. He does not want us to die. He wants us to turn from our sin. He doesn't say you have to believe in the Messiah to be forgiven. He says,'I want you to turn from your sins.'"

"Now if this isn't enough, in the book of Jonah it says,"
Jonah 3:10 When G-d saw what they did and how they had turned from their evil ways, He relented, not bringing upon them the destruction He had threatened.
"It doesn't say anything about blood, it doesn't say anything about sacrifice."

[ https://youtu.be/aeQr1tD1rtI ]

Micah 7:18 Who is a G-d like You, forgiving iniquities, and passing over the transgressions of the remnant of His inheritance? He does not retain His anger, because of this: He delights in mercy.

[No doubt, but I'll put up a link to a video that you should watch that will explain the purpose of sending Christ.]


"In exodus, the golden calf incident. After the Israelites sinned, with the golden calf, Moses went up to G-d to plead their case. What happens? Moses tries to get himself blotted out for their sin. But G-d says,"whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book." The innocent will not die for the wicked. I don't care who he is."

[The video I put a link to above will do a much better job than I at explaining this, but G-d's people were spiritually unable to come back to Him, because they had been defiled. G-d's own law forbids it. And those animals were innocent weren't they? The ones sacrificed for the forgiveness of sins? Those animal sacrifices were but a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice.]

Deuteronomy 24:16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor are children to be put to death for their parents; each one will die for their own sin.
"Are we going to believe what the Non-testament says, or what G-d says in the Hebrew Bible?

[Isaiah 53:5-6, Yet He was pierced for our iniquities, crushed for our sins; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. Like sheep, we have all gone astray, each of us has turned to our own ways; Yet the L-RD has laid upon Him, The sins of us all.
And Isaiah 53:9-12 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in death, though He'd done no violence, nor was any deceit found in His mouth, [Meaning that He'd done no evil. This is poetry, not always taken literally.] Yet it was the L-RD's will to crush Him and to cause Him to suffer, and though the Lord makes His life an offering for sin [An innocent dying for the guilty here.], He will see his offspring and will prolong His days [Meaning that G-d will see His Son, Christ, and will give Him a longer life.], and the will of the L-RD shall prosper in His hand. And after He has suffered, He will see the light of life, and will be satisfied; by His knowledge my righteous servant shall justify many, He will bear their iniquities. Therefore I shall give Him a portion among the great, and He shall divide the spoils with the strong, because He poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the sinners. For He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.]

Sir Random's picture
How exactly are atheists

How exactly are atheists superstious? I certainly don't believe in spirits, continued consciousness, or the afterlife.


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