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copied/plagiarized from https://esclips.com/video/ODetOE6cbbc/v%C3%ADdeo.html?t=2m2s
"This feeling of doubt and confusion about the presence of a Creator "
>>>He expressed no doubt or confusion, you are now resorting to ad hominem.
"must be quite painful because it deprives the Atheist and the Agnostic of tranquility, security and peace of mind. "
>>>No it isn't and no it doesn't. Stop telling people how they feel, it's arrogant and condescending.
------------------------------
" The unbelievers do not have credible answers to the purpose of one’s existence."
1) Begging the question again, the logical fallacy is implying existence has a purpose, rather than demonstrating this to be the case.
2) Also believers have no answer to this either, they just assert without evidence, as you have done here again.
----------------------------------------
1) "The unbelievers do not have credible answers to the purpose of one’s existence."
>>a) Neither do you, but atheists are not claiming to and you are.
2) "thus they say that man lives for himself and for the pleasures of this life. "
>>b) No they don't, stop telling atheists what they think, again it's arrogant and condescending.
3) "Those who only believe in the material world and who do not believe in a Creator only believe in sensory data."
>>c) Do you accept the material world is real? What ***OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE*** have you that anything beyond the material world exists?
4) "They say that this universe and everything in it came by itself. All its order is simply due to blind coincidence. "
>>d) No they don't stop asserting what atheists think.
5) "They say that man is simply like an animal or a plant and that he will exist for a short period and then end like any other animal or plant."
>>e) humans are animals, that's axiomatically true, as are the facts that we live for a finite period and then die. What ***OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE*** can you demonstrate for anything else?
6) "So what happens when life turns sour? What happens when one goes through hardships?"
>>f) This only demonstrates that your beliefs are a crutch to delude yourself things are not as bad as they seem.
7) "It is no coincidence then that the largest number of suicides takes place amongst Atheists, Agnostics"
>>g) Another lie, you have no shame and your arrogant duplicity is really starting to grate a little now, it's always the same with apologists who introduce themselves claiming to want respectful objective discourse and then offer neither.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-33362387 Not the highest suicide rate in even developed nations, and the factors are complex and nothing suggests the fact that delusional superstitious beliefs are quite low in Japan contributes directly to this. Japan also has some of the lowest rates of violent crime in the developed world, far lower rates of crimes like murder and rape than religious countries like the US for instance. Try explaining why predominantly atheist countries are more moral?
Your bias is palpable, and your misuse of unsavoury stats quite nauseating. You are disrespecting atheists more and more with each post. Stop telling atheists what they think for a start, as they have no dogma or doctrine and beyond disbelief in a deity are free to form any world view they choose.
@ziani
"This feeling of doubt and confusion about the presence of a Creator must be quite painful because it deprives the Atheist and the Agnostic of tranquility, security and peace of mind."
No
I endured a very difficult period in my life, and the only pain I felt was physical.
One does not need to bend their knee to an imaginary being to achieve tranquility, security and peace of mind. I have all three in great quantity.
@ziani,
[[This feeling of doubt and confusion about the presence of a Creator must be quite painful because it deprives the Atheist and the Agnostic of tranquility, security and peace of mind. The unbelievers do not have credible answers to the purpose of one’s existence. --ziani]]
This is so incredibly naive! Your knowledge of atheists is hypothetical and pathetic! I have no reasonable doubts or confusion about the non-existence of the Easter Bunny; for parallel reasons I have no doubts or confusion about the non-existence of a creator. All gods, including Allah, have "man-made" stamped all over them. You just have to look. I am at peace with the fact that I won't live forever, a state that might well render a life totally meaningless could it actually be achieved. Tranquility and peace of mind is the norm for me. At this very moment I feel quite at peace, very tranquil.
Who told you that life has a purpose outside of what we, ourselves, bring to the table? Isn't that based on your ASSUMPTION that we were designed by some creator--the very point under question? Unless you wish to beg the question you cannot use that question to prop up your god. Okay?
@ Ziani
All this statement proves is that you know nothing about Japan, the japanese culture or culturally acceptable remedies for problems in Japan.
What it does show, is, as you put it, a highly secular society has a successful internal and external economy unlike any of the muslim countries without natural resources to prop up their theocracy.
ziani,
I understand that many westerners have an inaccurate picture of Islam. But also know that many critics were once Muslim and know the Quran perhaps better than yourself. In recent years some good books have appeared in skeptic circles.
With respect to fellow human beings and religion, the truth is that you can put every religion, theories, or ideas on the table with Islam and only Islam wins because it has a Creator who says, "We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." Chapter 15 verse 9 Islam wins because it is fully completed with no missing parts or addition needed. It is a mirror for you, me, and everybody. Read and it will talk to you as if it is directly revealed to you only. It has got the past, present and future events.
" Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord." Ch 13, v 2
And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing): for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom. Ch 31 v 27
If you want to truly understand what Islam is read Quran from online , app or get one with the correct translations or learn arabic and read by yourself. On of the well know and highly recommend translator that is more close in translating is Yusuf Ali. If you want a modern English one you can read sahih international.
https://quran.com/?local=en
If thou bring them not a revelation, they say: "Why hast thou not got it together?" Say: "I but follow what is revealed to me from my Lord: this is (nothing but) lights from your Lord, and Guidance, and mercy, for any who have faith."
Ch 7 V 203
In regards to proving God as I answered before here is also how from ch 13 v 1-5
1. A. L. M. R. These are the signs (or verses) of the Book: that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.
2. Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
3. And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!
4. And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!
5. If thou dost marvel (at their want of faith), strange is their saying: "When we are (actually) dust, shall we indeed then be in a creation renewed?" They are those who deny their Lord! They are those round whose necks will be yokes (of servitude): they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (for aye)!
He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.
Such is the Creation of Allah: now show Me what is there that others besides Him have created: nay, but the Transgressors are in manifest error. Ch 31 v 10-
THS 24:13
"And The True It That Is created all other gods and all realities and all dimensions and all thoughts for all eternity, plus one."
THS 45:1
"And Allah was created so The True It That Is could have a slave to clean up the excrement of her holy bowels and to him was given a mighty shovel and bucket to scoop the excrement and toss it out among the stars from which new universes and planets and life became. But this was not a creation of allah, for he was only the tosser of the excrement and no glory is to be given to the tosser of the excrement."
Written before man could write by the True Prophet of The True It That Is and found in 2011 by the High Prophet, the Mighty Mouthpiece to share with the thinking, reading, educated world.
This crap is so easy to write it must be divine inspiration and if it's divine inspiration - you better not question it or all who agree with the divine words written here will find you, cut off your balls and feed them to you for dinner then kill you slowly in front of your family until they agree with divine truth.
Anyway... I know that's all a bit harsh but isn't that pretty much what all religion, especially Islam, does - uses words to justify actions that keep people from questioning and imprison them in fear so they follow the rules?
Get out of your own ignorance... free yourself from stupidity and live this life, this beautiful thing we have now. Quit trying to please some invisible entity for some reward after you are DEAD and pissing on others because they don't want to follow your ignorance.
Just saying.
@Tasmin Mohammed,
[[3. And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider! --Tasmin]]
"Spread out"? That's flat-earth talk!! Think of spreading out a tablecloth. Our spherical Earth was "created" by a gathering up--not a spreading out. Mohammad drew heavily from the Old Testament. Unfortunately, it is a flat-earth book! The mountains were not "set" down. Many of them were pushed up. Check your geology! Some species are all-female, so there are no twos. Most plants incorporate both sexes, so there are no twos there either. Yes, there are things to consider here.
Fists you have to prove that your Allah is real. All you have for that is the same dumb apologetics that the Christians use which have been debunked for 500 years before your silly book was written. Your dumb book proves nothing. Show me Allah or at least provide a shred of evidence for your assertions.
Any time some religious freak does not like a quote from someone non-religious they always pull the "Out of Context" card. Why didn't you use the ole "You don't speak Arabic so you can't understand." argument?
Grow the hell up. You get to interpret and pretend but when we do it you cry "foul." You cherry pick your way through the book and justify horrid acts, "We can only kill non-believers in certain situations." WTF How ignorant can a person possibly be.
The Koran is complete BS: When Muhammad died in 632 CE, THERE WAS NO KORAN. He did not write the book, The original Qur’an was completed by 634 CE. It was written as a result of the death of a close friend of Muhammad Salim who was killed in a war. People freaked. What if everyone who knew bits of the Koran died? They needed a book.
The Hafsah codex was created. It was then destroyed in 667 after Muhammad's wife died as she could no longer protect it.
Problems for the Qur’an occured during Uthman's rein (644 TO 656 CE) Islam faith spread with military conquest and the soldiers were reading different versions of the Qur’an. The claim that "The Qur’an was truly pure as followers of Muhammad believed was a lie!
The 2nd most trusted Hadith is called Sahih Bukhari. In Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510, the story about Muslim soldiers arguing about different versions of the Qur’an reads as follows: [Search on the referenced site to find the number "510" if you want to verify the written literature].
"Hudhaifa was afraid of the different recitations of the Qur'an, so he asked 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Qur’an as Jews and the Christians did before."
Uthman then ordered four men to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. After this had been done, the Hafsah codex was returned to her. "Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsah."
Muslim source materials report that at least four different versions of the Qur’an existed before the political order was given to have them burned. (Refer to "Al-Tamhid 2, 247).
Your Book is complete BS. It is the creation of religious zealots; MEN! Ignorant sand dwelling MEN,
(http://www.harvardhouse.com/quran_purity.htm) There is a lot more on the history and creation of the Koran. All of it validated by Muslim scholars. It is not a perfect book. It was created after Muhammad's death and worked on for hundreds of years, by MEN.
Scholars understand that at Mohammed's death, there was no singular codex for the Qur'an 39. Indeed, as has been noted above, there probably was not even a codex of the Qur'an until at or after the middle part of the 8th century (the leaves mentioned earlier are single pages, not comprising a whole collection of writings). Given the late appearance of complete quranic texts, this appears to bear witness to the truth. However, as was seen above, many Muslim scholars make the claim that the Qur'an has existed exactly as it was handed down to Mohammed, even to this day.
http://www.studytoanswer.net/myths_ch1.html#ch1-3
We do not believe your book and we do not believe your God. What Evidence do you have for the Existence of Allah! Please provide your evidence.
Cognostic@
Why do we exist? Why does the universe exist? Is there any value or purpose for our existence? None of us had planned to born in this world; so, why are we here on the earth now? What is our purpose and mission here on the earth? Why do we have difficulties, tragedies, pain and sorrow here? Why do we have thoughts? Why do we have a sense of existence, sense of purpose, intelligence, memory, ability for imagination and capacity for rational thinking? Why does evil and injustice to innocents exist here? Why do people have opportunity to hate, cheat and kill each other here? Why there is war and violence? Why there are nuclear bombs? Why innocent poor people struggle for even food for a single time in a day while rich waste it throughout the day?
Are these all the products of blind laws of physics? Did these all come into existence accidentally by blind natural processes of evolution? Are the poor and weak the victims of these blind physical laws of the universe? Did their sufferings come into existence by blind laws of nature?
Everything i.e., Sun, earth, plants, animals, sense organs, intelligence, memory, imagination, human beings, war, violence, pain, sorrow, sufferings, nuclear bombs, smart phones, driverless cars, supersonic aircrafts, super computers, etc. came into existence accidentally by natural processes and by blind laws of physics without any kind of involvement of an intelligent designer or Creator.
copied/plagiarized from https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/35637/does-god-exist
edit : inappropriate
Nyarlathotep@
Sire where is your opinion i need your point view not Copy Paste from sites internet
@ziani
With regard to paragraph #1 above - atheists have the answers to all of these questions, in fact, we understand all of this very easily without complication or fiction, because we don't try to put the answers in a context that does not exist and cannot be proved. There is no "grand purpose" for the existence of anything. Each of us is here because of what is... and how what is came about was evolution. and how everything came into existence was - physics and whatever but there is no evidence some invisible anything exists or did it. Each of us is here because two biological mammals had sex a (physical activity in a physical world). There is no reason to believe there is a purpose or mission or invisible anything. All the shit that happens in reality is due to - reality, life. Dead people don't have much that happens to them. All of this is very easy to understand, comprehend and accept from a simple atheist (default) viewpoint.
Santa Clause is a great fiction but that does not make him real... the presents come from our parents, no matter what we WANT to believe, and that fat man isn't coming down any chimneys.
We know the truth, the tangible answers to all of your confusions and questions. If you want peace, simply accept the truth and live your life. You are only frustrated and have these questions because you want the answers to fit in an invisible box watched over by an invisible entity and you want the truth of life and death to go away so you create a different box in a different reality and say that when this box and reality is gone you'll get a bigger, better one to start over again elsewhere or - you'll end up in the "bad box." LOL...
I just don't get how this kind of ignorance appeals to anyone who thinks for themself.
As for Paragraph #2: Uhm... basically, yes - it was all an accident that happened as a result of laws of physics , some of those laws of physics we haven't yet defined. Not complicated, simple. We don't need to create stories or fictions to understand what is... we just accept the facts.
Paragraph #3: Errr... yep. You got it. See? Even a blind man like you can see the truth - all you have to do is step over the line of proof and quit creating or perpetuating myths, fairytales, legends and stories to explain the truth and - well, explain and accept the truth.
See? Easy, simple, fulfilling, enlightening.
Why do you need anything more than the truth? Why do you need your fictions? Why are you wasting your time and your life trying to defend a fairytale rather than living your reality?
Strange to me...
Why do you need answers to all of your questions above beyond what is obvious?
Are you afraid of... well, life, death, invisible ghosts in your closet, divine retribution, your peers (who would kill you for even having a questioning thought)?
It is you who live in a prison of your own making - we atheists walk free of all your fictions and live in the reality we have.
I have no empathy for you however, because instead of seeing the truth you not only choose to live in lies and fictions but you want others to join you in your delusions - even to the point of violent cohersion!
You even hate people who have wealth because you think man created disparity or something - sad. Frankly, if I were you I would not be in an atheist forum looking for answers - I'd be pissed at my invisible mega-being for all of the shit he/she/it is responsible for allowing or creating or doing. Spend more time on your knees praying - maybe the lack of any real answers will one day hit you square between your eyes and you'll burn the damn rug and get on with what is real in your life and put away the childish rituals of ignorance.
Or, maybe not.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam, again.
You are saying that Muhammad PBUH was killed by who?????!!!! I feel you are on different angle and might be a different reasons behind what you are saying.
My brother I think you have more questions and need answers right then feel free to call
877-949-4752
at no charge and bring forward ALL your questions.
Thank you for your time.
@ Tasnim ......
You seem to like posting links to other sites about Islam .....
Try this one .... I really think you should give it a look.......
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheIslammiracle
KEY WORDS HAVE BEEN CHANGED TO ASSIST YOU IN UNDERSTANDING THE KORAN.
BROTHER??? Where do you get off calling any non-Muslim "brother" "Never help disbelievers "ME." 28:86" "Ignore "me" and 'my" poisonous talk. 33:48"
The curse of Allah is on "ME.". 2:89
Allah is an enemy to "ME". 2:98
Allah says that you must keep fighting "ME" until there is no more "ME" and everyone on earth "AND IN THIS FORUM" is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people. 2:193a
Don't be friends with "ME BECAUSE I" hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118 (According to your book.) After all "I"am an open enemy to you. 4:101
Do not choose 'ME" as a friend. 4:144
"I AM" the rightful owner of Hell. 5:10
"I" AM ignorant. 6:111
"I AM" the rightful owners of the Fire. 7:36
"MY" Disbelief is the greatest evil. 7:37
"I MUST" Serve Allah or go to hell. 7:59
Don't let "ME" think "I" can escape. "I AM" your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60
Don't make treaties with 'ME". "I am an" evildoer and should not be trusted. 9:7-9
Fight "ME!" Allah is on your side; he will give you victory. 9:12-14
Fight "ME when I am near you", and let "ME" see the harshness in you. 9:123
"I" will not be tolerated." 15:8
Allah makes it so that "I" cannot understand. 17:45-46
I AM A "DISBELIEVER." You are commanded by the Koran to not make friends with me. Allah has sent the devils into "MY HEART" to confuse me. (19:83) "I" will wear garments of fire, boiling fluid will be poured on my head, "MY" belly and skin will be melted, "I" will be tormented with iron hooks, and when "I" try to escape "I" will be driven back with the taunt: Taste the doom of burning. 22:19-22
AND FINALLY: Surah 4 Have no unbelieving friends "LIKE ME. "
Use your holy koran and your prophet mumu PBUH (Potential for Bull Unusually High) and Justify calling a Non-believer "Brother." Islam is evil and Muhammad is it's profit.
HOPE THE LANGUAGE CHANGES HELP YOU "GET THE POINT!" You are either a Muslim and believe the teachings of Muhammad or you are a troll/
Cognostic,
"KEY WORDS HAVE BEEN CHANGED TO ASSIST YOU IN UNDERSTANDING THE KORAN."
Damn, that was brutal. Very effective format.
sorry - double post
This is one of the scariest videos on YouTube today. What is NORMAL ISLAM?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBHUKEf_vDQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WgVa3VRFb
And what does Islam actually teach????
The truth about Islam is that it advocates eternal torture for those who do not accept Muhammad as the prophet of Allah. This makes it one of the most immoral ideologies ever devised.
Sapporo@
sir with respect don’t fall into the trap of trying to understand Islam from a media that don’t care about truth. I have many non-Muslims friends who completely changed their views on Muslims and Islam, just by reading a simple book about the life of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or any other book about islam , please focused on reading actual articles and books, rather than news aimed at sensationalizing our hate towards what one or two Muslims did.
The koran says that anybody who does not submit to Allah and accept Muhammad as Allah's prophet will be tortured for eternity. That is not something that is distorted by the media.
Muhammad is regarded as the ideal Muslim by Muslims, despite being one of the most immoral people who ever lived. It would be wrong therefore not to judge Muhammad when looking at Islam's problems.
Sapporo,
"The koran says that anybody who does not submit to Allah and accept Muhammad as Allah's prophet will be tortured for eternity. That is not something that is distorted by the media."
According to Yeshua we're going to get roasted.
John 15:6 (TPT) = "If a person is separated from me, he is discarded; such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire to be burned."
copied/plagiarized from http://www.quranforbusypeople.com/5-teachings-of-the-prophet-muhammad-pb...
This is particular nasty one, as you are plagiarizing someone in the first person.
My dear brother why are you surprised with my choice of words indeed you are my brother in humanity. Why are you surprised with me because your Creator says to you and every individual " Say: "O MY SERVANTS who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Ch 39: 53
In regards to the verses you quoted that is different situation and this is different in fact there also thimese verses in the Quran regarding how to speak to non Muslims
"speak fair to the people" 2:83
yet bear them company in this life with justice (and consideration), 31:15
Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honourable (avoidance) 25:72
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. 16:125
"But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear (Allah)." 20:44
Hold to forgiveness; command what is right 7:199
Kind words and the covering of faults are better than charity followed by injury. Allah is free of all wants, and He is Most-Forbearing. 2:263
Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. 3:111
Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity 3:104
Say thou: "This is my way: I do invite unto Allah,- on evidence clear as the seeing with one's eyes,- I and whoever follows me. Glory to Allah! and never will I join gods with Allah!" 12:108
It was only as a mercy that We sent you [Prophet] to all people. 21:107
Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. 33:21
And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character. 68:4
Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says, "I am of those who bow in Islam"?
Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!
"And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,- none but persons of the greatest good fortune." 41:33-39
Tasnim, would it be possible to translate this to modern English ? I'm having a really hard time reading it. Sounds just about as screwed up as the Christian Bible....
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