Struggling with bible prophecy
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Rickswordfish: You are changing the topic. Whether you believe experts or not is not the topic. You said there was a prophecy in the bible that came true. Please cite your bible prophecy and the act that fulfilled it. (There are more and more "experts" who believe Jesus was a myth. Of the experts that believe Jesus was a real person. Most believe he was a man and not a spiritual being with magical powers. Just a First Century Jew who went about performing magical tricks for the crowds just like every other wannabe First Century Jewish prophet.
"After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. " no othe biblical figures death besides jesus was followed by the destruction of jerusalem and the temple
Well that is just false; there were many, but the first to pop into my mind was John the Baptist.
"After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. " no othe biblical figures death besides jesus was followed by the destruction of jerusalem and the temple"
What you are describing is a city-state that was under siege and fell, the ruler (almost always defined as being divine by his people) murdered, and the city razed. Read the Iliad. Read your history. Sadly there are many examples.
"The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."
That prediction is incredibly vague, and could be applied to any time any city, and any ruler.
RE: " no othe biblical figures death besides jesus was followed by the destruction of jerusalem and the temple" DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT ANOINTING WAS?
IT WAS COMMON PRACTICE. MOST PEOPLE WHO DIED WERE ANOINTED IN THE FIRST CENTURY, (IF THEY COULD AFFORD THE OIL)
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October 25 Scripture
Manners & Customs: Anointing
Anointing in ancient Bible times
Anoint in Easton's Bible Dictionary The practice of anointing with perfumed oil was common among the Hebrews. (1.) The act of anointing was significant of consecration to a holy or sacred use; hence the anointing of the high priest (Ex. 29:29; Lev. 4:3) and of the sacred vessels (Ex. 30:26). The high priest and the king are thus called "the anointed" (Lev. 4:3, 5, 16; 6:20; Ps. 132:10). Anointing a king was equivalent to crowning him (1 Sam. 16:13; 2 Sam. 2:4, etc.). Prophets were also anointed (1 Kings 19:16; 1 Chr. 16:22; Ps. 105:15). The expression, "anoint the shield" (Isa. 21:5), refers to the custom of rubbing oil on the leather of the shield so as to make it supple and fit for use in war. (2.) Anointing was also an act of hospitality (Luke 7:38, 46). It was the custom of the Jews in like manner to anoint themselves with oil, as a means of refreshing or invigorating their bodies (Deut. 28:40; Ruth 3:3; 2 Sam. 14:2; Ps. 104:15, etc.). This custom is continued among the Arabians to the present day. (3.) Oil was used also for medicinal purposes. It was applied to the sick, and also to wounds (Ps. 109:18; Isa. 1:6; Mark 6:13; James 5:14). (4.) The bodies of the dead were sometimes anointed (Mark 14:8; Luke 23:56). (5.) The promised Deliverer is twice called the "Anointed" or Messiah (Ps. 2:2; Dan. 9:25, 26), because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost (Isa. 61:1), figuratively styled the "oil of gladness" (Ps. 45:7; Heb. 1:9). Jesus of Nazareth is this anointed One (John 1:41; Acts 9:22; 17:2, 3; 18:5, 28), the Messiah of the Old Testament.
Anoint in Fausset's Bible Dictionary "To put oil on the head or body"; a practice common in the E. (Rth 3:3). To cease anointing was a mark of mourning (2 Samuel 14:2; Daniel 10:3; Matthew 6:17). A mark of respect to a guest so common that to omit it implied defective hospitality (Luke 7:46; Psalm 23:5); Heb., "Thou hast made fat," or "unctuous" (John 11:2; John 12:3). A body was prepared for burial with unguents (Mark 16:1; Mark 14:8). Metaphorically, "anointed with oil" means successful, joyous (Psalm 92:10; Ecclesiastes 9:8). "Anointing with the oiler gladness" (Psalm 45:7; Hebrews 1:9) expresses spiritual joy, such as Messiah felt and shall feel in seeing the blessed fruit of His sufferings (Isaiah 61:3). Anointing prevents excessive perspiration in the hot and arid E., gives elasticity to the limbs, and acts as clothing in both sun and shade. The ordinary clothing is thin, and the heat and sand produce weariness and irritation, which the oil relieves. Oil was used as a medicament for the sick, and liniment for bodily pain (Isaiah 1:6), so that it was used as a symbol in miraculous cures (Mark 6:13). The usage which Christ practiced Himself (John 9:6; John 9:11) and committed to His apostles was afterward continued with laying on of hands as a token of the highest faculty of medicine in the church. Rome vainly continues the sign, when the reality, the power of miraculous healing, is wanting. Rome's "extreme unction" is administered to heal the soul when the body's life is despaired of. James's (James 5:14-15) unction was to heal the body. The sacred use of oil was for consecrating things or persons to God. So Jacob anointed for a pillar the stone which had been his pillow at Bethel (Genesis 28:18). The oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, and as applied to things gave them a ceremonial sacredness, fitting them for holy ministrations. As applied to prophets (1 Chronicles 16:22; 1 Kings 19:16), priests (Leviticus 4:3), and kings (Isaiah 45:1), it marked their consecration to the office, and was a symbol of the spiritual qualification divinely imparted for its due discharge (Exodus 30:29-30). 1 Samuel 10:1,6: King Saul. 1 Samuel 16:13-14; David thrice anointed: first to the right; then over Judah; then actually over the whole nation. Isaiah 61:1; Messiah, twice so designated in the Old Testament (Psalm 2:2; Daniel 9:25-26), at once Prophet, Priest, and King, the Center of all prophecy, the Antitype of all priesthood, and the Source and End of all kingship (Luke 4:18; Acts 4:27; Acts 10:38). He was anointed with the Holy Spirit from the womb, then at His baptism (John 1:32-33-41). Hereby the New Testament marks Him as the Messiah of the Old Testament (Acts 9:22; Acts 17:2-3; Acts 18:5; Acts 18:28.) What He is His people are, Messiahs or "anointed ones" by union with Him (Zechariah 4:14), having the unction of the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 2:20). Though priests in general were at first anointed, afterward anointing was restricted to the high priest, called "the priest that is anointed:" the perfume used was of stacte, onycha, and galbanum, with pure frankincense, and it was death to imitate it. Antitypically, to Christ, the true high priest alone, belongs the fullness of the Spirit, which it is blasphemy to arrogate. "The Lord's anointed" was the ordinary phrase for the theocratic king (1 Samuel 12:3; Lamentations 4:20). "Anointing the shield" was to make the hide of which it was made supple and less liable to crack (Isaiah 21:5). "Anointing the eyes with eyesalve" expresses imparting of spiritual perceptions (Revelation 3:18). "The yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing" (Isaiah 10:27), i.e., the Assyrian oppression shall be taken away from Judah, because of the consecration that is upon the elect nation, its prophets, priests, kings, and holy place (Psalm 105:15); the Antitype to all which is Messiah, "the Anointed" (Daniel 9:24). It is for Messiah's sake that all their deliverances are vouchsafed to His people.
MILLIONS OF ANOINTED PEOPLE DIED DURING THE LIFE OF JESUS. IF HE LIVED AT ALL.
For what it's worth, based on my personal observations over the years, most all "prophecies" I've ever read or heard about (bible related or otherwise) are so terribly vague and general that they can be interpreted to fit almost any situation. Or, another tactic, the predictions are of such common occurrence that the predicted act would eventually happen regardless of any "prophecies" being made.
For instance, what if I told you, "I have gazed into my crystal ball, and I have foreseen you will one day awaken from your nightly slumber and consume a meal. This meal will consist of fried poultry and pork items accompanied by a serving of a twice-cooked bakery product that shall be covered with a yellowish dairy product that will magically vanish once applied." So, a few days, weeks, months, or years later you wake up one morning and have bacon, eggs, and buttered toast for breakfast. Hot-diggity-dog! I'm an awesome prophet! By the way, that will be fifty dollars, please... *holding out hand with palm up*...
But this one wasnt vague it was really specific
The book of Daniel doesn't mention Jesus. You shouldn't exaggerate.
It says the anointed one
"It says the anointed one"
Let us examine this "annointed one" prophecy. If it was true, the author of the prophesy knew that jesus, the son of god was coming. Holy crap, if I was to author such a prediction, I would make sure everyone knew it was the one and only son of god, and make sure everyone knew it was the son of god.
If you were a small town reporter and got a tip that Queen Elizabeth 2 was stopping in your town, you would not write "an elderly rich lady with a lot of power and money" was visiting. You would name the visitor by name and full title.
Heck "annointed" could apply to many different people. The son of god is specific.
Are you purposely being obtuse for trolling purposes?
I really hope you are.
NO IT IS NOT SPECIFIC.
@Rickswordfish: What was specific? You have said nothing specific yet? Cite the prophecy and the exact event that fulfilled it.
Jesus death came right before the destruction of jerusalem and the temple like daniel 9 said it would
The 2nd destruction of Jerusalem came many decades after the timeline asserted for Jesus's life.
It was only 4 decades
So not even remotely "right after Jesus's death then, but 40 years later ffs...dear oh dear, and you have the temerity to claim you treat claims with skepticism.
re: "Jesus' death" You would actually need to prove Jesus lived just to cap off this prophecy. We have no real evidence for this assertion; however, most scholars seem to believe Jesus was a person about whom people of the time ascribed miracles to. Much like the faith healers of today. We have no actual reason to believe any of this.
ANYWAY DANIEL'S PROPHECY - COMPLETELY DEBUNKED. WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU GOT?
WHY NOT JUST GO ON LINE AND LOOK UP THE PROPHECIES AND SEE HOW THEY ARE DEBUNKED? WHY COME HERE? YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME.
I couldnt find anything online that could adequately explain away the prophecies
@Tickswordfish: That's why I found it for you and posted it above. NO ONE HAS TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING AWAY THAT DOES NOT MEET THE CRITERIA FOR A PROPHECY. You have said nothing at all specific. NEXT!
That rationalwiki article is full of assumptions and misinformation
@Rickswordfish: " assumptions and misinformation" Prove it.
It says daniel 12 specifically says when the day of judgement will happen, daniel 12 doesnt
@Rickswordfish: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ..... so you point to something less specific in the prophecy to prove it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha haha..... What did you not understand about the requirement for a prophecy being SPECIFIC. The fact that it is less specific is a FAILURE. Not an argument for your position.
For what its worth; I just read the verse in question in the bible; and it gives the same time period mentioned on rationalwiki. You know; what Rickswordfish said was misinformation on rationalwiki's part.
Show me please
Nyarlathotep: LOL I don't doubt it. And he was still trying to argue from the more specific to the less specific. I thought that was a riot!
Idk what your talking about, I said that the rationalwiki article claims that daniel 12 says specifically when the day of judgement will be, when in fact daniel 12 does not meaning that the rationalwiki article claims that rabbis and religious leaders are referred to as "anointed ones" in the jewish religion, I looked online and found nothing to back up that claim
Maybe you should have read the Old Testament; it refers to several different people as anointed, including priests. How is it we know your mythology better than you?
Jesus was considered an anointed one too but unlike the other anointed ones his death was followed by the destruction of jerusalem and the temple