Struggling with bible prophecy

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Sheldon's picture
Oi, Rickswordfish!

Oi, Rickswordfish!

How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?
How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?


Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon! Damnit Sheldon,

@Sheldon! Damnit Sheldon, you are confusing the young man. JUST ASK ONE QUESTION AT A TIME. Sheeesh! YOU CAN;T EXPECT HIM TO RESPOND TO ALL OF THOSE.

Rickswordfish's picture
It seems to me most people

It seems to me most people here are just posting speculation with little to no evidence

boomer47's picture


Umm, not sure what you mean?

Are you suggesting that we have an obligation to disprove your claims?. We have no such obligation. As the person making the claim, it is you who must provide the proof or your claims .

This may be difficult for you because it's pretty clear you haven't grasped the difference between a claim,,speculation and proof .

I'll start > Most christians accept that Moses could not have written all of the Torah. The main reason for this is that Deuteronomy records Moses' death. THAT is a statement of fact, not speculation ;

Deut 34 Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab to the top of Pisgah, across from Jericho. There the LORD showed him the whole land—from Gilead to Dan,
2 all of Naphtali, the territory of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Mediterranean Sea,
3 the Negev and the whole region from the Valley of Jericho, the City of Palms, as far as Zoar.
4 Then the LORD said to him, “This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it.”
5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said.
6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.
7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone.
8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over.
9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses.
10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
11 who did all those signs and wonders the LORD sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land.
12 For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.

IT is my position that the Exodus almost certainly did not Happen and Moses did not exist. IE it's myth. This opinion is based on recent archaeological evidence I do not claim this as truth, merely as having a high probability. . I can't prove it so will not even try to convince you of its likelihood --THAT's called "speculation:"

Now you have claimed that arguments put to you are speculation. Fine, I hadn't noticed. Could you perhaps list say half a dozen .?

Finally, you seem to be conflating 'evidence' and 'proof' . They are NOT THE SAME ;'Evidence 'is ANYTHING provided to support a claim. Hence; the entire bible, writings by people such as Flavius Josephus, and personal experience, are ALL for say the existence of God. ----What they are NOT is PROOF.


PS I don't claim that religious beliefs per se . Indeedly doodly not. My position is that ORGANISED RELIGION is a scam, I'll go further; it is my position that organised religion is the greatest confidence trick ever perpetrated on the human race. Obviously, I can't prove that as an absolute truth ,However, I am sufficiently convinced to live as if it is true. BUT I do not argue this position with the intention of changing anyone's mind.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Rick

@ Rick

It seems to me most people here are just posting speculation with little to no evidence

OK that is entire stock of irony meters just exploded, including the Russian built 3 ton jobby with Titanium entire livelihood gone in a flash and a bang.

Fuck you all.

(EDIT: original quote added)

Tin-Man's picture
@Old Man Re: Irony Meter

@Old Man Re: Irony Meter catastrophe

...*walking briskly about room stomping out small fires*... Holy shit! I know what you mean!... *stomp-stomp-stomp*... Aw, hell!... *grabbing fire extinguisher from wall*.... *aiming and spraying toward curtains that suddenly burst into flames*... Anyway... *back to stomping smaller fires on floor*... not only did my super Russian meter explode, but even a couple of meters I recently bought but were still in their shipping containers went friggin' haywire!... *stomp-stomp-stomp*... And they weren't even plugged in or activated! Either it was some sort of pulse generated by the Russian meter, of they somehow detected the post and decided, "Fuck it! We ain't dealing with that kind of bullshit." Either way, it was the damndest thing I've ever seen... *stomp-stomp*... Aw, shit! There goes the couch! Gotta go!... *racing back to fire extinguisher*...

Cognostic's picture
@Rickswordfish: Speculation:

@Rickswordfish: Speculation: Of course it seems that way. You have no idea at all what a fact is.

Sheldon's picture
You missed this....

Oi, Rickswordfish! You missed this....

How does a prediction coming absolutely true, no matter how unlikely, evidence anything supernatural has occurred?

Nice touch giving yourself one agree though, the troll credentials are piling up.

Grinseed's picture
I typed "Book of Daniel 9"

I typed "Book of Daniel 9" into Google search and got several thousands of references for convoluted. unevidenced theistic autopsies on phrophecies about Yeshua.

Quite literally thousands of blogs, forums and hair-spliiting responses written by thousands of feverish theists claiming unadulterated perfect revealed understanding of truth, despite disagreeing over detail like "does 7 mean a week or a year?". History repeats itself, most christians are still undecided over specific points of the Trinity which still doesn't make any sense as the Jews and Muslims at least will attest. It was for me a sad bit of research.

And yet despite all this free information, you claim to be struggling with the prophecies of Daniel 9.
Just what is it that you are struggling with?
You either feebly-minded accept it all and wait for Armageddon, or you apply critical thinking and reading skills and research the history of the Jews and realise Daniel was a document, not of prophecy, but of hope for a defeated people. And that like most prophecies so vaguely worded it can be used to find resolutions from any point or event in history.

The answers AR members have offered, all six pages to date, you simply discount, but then theists are renowned for having faith in unsubstantiated claims with zero evidence or meaningless explanation, while demanding the hardest proof for otherwise clear and obvious arguments that challenge that faith.
You are simply stonewalling and wringing your hands, insincerely whingeing you have trouble dealing with it.

I think you are a Christian with a capital C
And that rhymes with T and that stands for Troll

boomer47's picture
Ah, Grinseed, I think you may

Ah, Grinseed, I think you may be right. We have one of the dreaded Big 'C' christians. These poor unfortunates are so insecure in their faith, that they are impervious to critical thinking or facts. They wrap themselves warmly with a thick blanket of cognitive dissonance .All the while insisting loudly that they are in the possession of an absolute, exclusive truth.

There is another kind of Christian, which I call "the small 'c' christian. The best example I can think of is my late mother. Mum died in April this year at age 92, after having received last rites .Mum gave witness to her deep faith not by proselytising or loud proclamations of her faith. Instead, mum gave witness by the way she lived. At her funeral, people unknown to me or my family gave eulogies, telling of how mum had helped them .

I can't think of anyone I know who is as widely loved as was my mother.

Grinseed's picture
Thanks for sharing your mum's

Thanks for sharing your mum's story Cranky.

As much as I dislike organised religions I can't condemn anyone for believing what they will, when they live it, rather than preach it.

I think I have known quite a lot of people like your mum, which includes my own mother, a simple, uneducated deaf-mute woman. She possessed a simple faith, an indomitable will and great compassion. She left behind many in this city's deaf community who still praise her for her tangible charity and encouraging comfort in many troubled circumstances.
She use to tell me she often spoke with Jesus and that he would reply, in sign language...that still makes me laugh, not out of scorn but for the honest naivety of her faith.

I have limited patience with ardent proselytising christians, despite their sincerity, who try to reason their god into the reality of others, through argument, and legislation. They might inspire me more with great deeds than their arguments could ever do.

I am most concerned about the forthcoming and unnecessary religious rights and freedoms legislation in this country. So far it has been a monumental balls up and has all the makings of a social disaster. It doesn't help when the Attorney General supports shutting down freedom of information, prosecuting journalists for articles embarrassing the government and whose name is Christian Porter. The irony is profound.
We atheists will never be without religion, but here's to hoping that they might all be more like our mothers, simply living their truths rather than forcing them on others.

Cheers Cranky, I enjoy reading your posts.

Rickswordfish's picture
A number of christians claim

A number of christians claim the prophecy of ezekiel 29 (egypt becoming a abandoned wasteland) was fulfilled when nebuchadnezzar conquered egypt and deported egyptians like he did with jerusalem yet I cant find any evidence that nebuchadnezzar did this except from a quote from the ancient historian josephus who was quoting from another historian named Berosus "..the captive Jews, and Phoenicians, and Syrians, and those of the Egyptian nations, and having committed the conveyance of them to Babylon"

Im confused frustrated and scared please help me clear up as to wether nebuchadnezzar conquered egypt i promise ill listen

David Killens's picture


I am assuming that you are referencing Ezekiel 29:8,9

"Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will bring a sword against you and kill both man and beast. 9 Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. Then they will know that I am the Lord."

OK, just what does it mean when it is stated "Sovereign Lord". Is that god or the ruler of an army? From Wiki

"Sovereign is a title which can be applied to the highest leader in various categories. The word is borrowed from Old French soverain, which is ultimately derived from the Latin word superānus, meaning "above"."

Is it no reasonable to assume that in this case, "sovereign" refers to the ruler of the army that fought? Have you ever heard the term "trash talk"? Before any battle the leader gets in front of his troops and does some motivational rant, and it could be a lot of trash talk.

So exactly what battle is being referred to, and when did it happen?

It was the Battle of Carchemish was fought about 605 BC.

And exactly what part did the Jews play in this battle? At the time of the battle of Carchemish they were a fractured society, they played no part in that battle, and if fact were conquered by the Babylonians in 587 BC, which led to the great Diasporia.

IMO this was the typical trash talking by a ruler before a battle, and although the Egyptians were beaten, their nation did survive and continue on, although very diminished.

When the Jews were taken captive by the Babylonians their leadership was taken to Babylonia, and during that period what was left of the Jews reconstructed their history and culture in Babylon, adopting many legends from other cultures, including The Great Flood, and the Battle of Carchemish. They also adopted the "miraculous births" (jesus) story from different sources, many from Greek and Babylonian culture.

Nebuchadnezzar II was not a Jew but the king of Babylon c. 605 BC – c. 562 BC. from

The consensus among critical scholars is that the book of Daniel is historical fiction. Nebuchadnezzar's conversion to Yahweh (Judaism) is an imaginary event. His period of madness is also fictional, historians attributing it to rumors about Nabonidus's stay in Teima (or Tayma), which were subsequently applied to Nebuchadnezzar through conflation.

Cognostic's picture


Nebuchadnezzar's Conquests
In 601 B.C. Nebuchadnezzar attempted the invasion of Egypt but was repulsed with heavy losses. Judah rebelled, but Jerusalem fell in March 597 B.C., and the ruler, Jehoiakim, and his court were deported to Babylon.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Rick

@ Rick

What in this myth scares you? Even if it were true? I think dealing with your fear is a bigger priority than playing hide and seek with history vs mythology.

What are you afraid of Rick?

Rickswordfish's picture
That the bible really is the

That the bible really is the word of god, furthermore how do you know its a myth please explain

David Killens's picture


"That the bible really is the word of god, furthermore how do you know its a myth please explain"

I do not have to. It is the claimant's burden to prove that the bible is the word of god. Have fun trying that.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Rickswordfish - do you

Rickswordfish - do you know [the Bible is] a myth please explain

At least some of the events it describes, we know did not happen. You would think this would cast a shadow of doubt over anything else it contains, if you are skeptical of religious claims. Those who are not skeptical of religious claims tend to gloss over the parts that are known to be fiction, and assume everything else is true (often demanding they be proved false before expressing even the slightest doubts about them); like you have done with these prophecies. For example:

Rickswordfish - Just because we have no record of egypt being deserted or the nile drying up doesnt mean it didnt happen

I'd guess that it is clear to most of us that for whatever reason; you aren't prepared to deal with religion in a rational way; it seems you want to believe this non-sense, and are willing to post ridiculous fallacies, nastiness, exaggeration, and just general dishonesty to protect this religious text from criticism.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Rick

@ Rick

So your fear is that "That the bible really is the word of god"

Why are you afraid of that? Because the god you are afraid of is a misogynist terrorist? Is that the reason?

how do you know its a myth please explain

The Pentateuch is a collection of stories, full of contradictions gross historical assertions and fairy stories that we know (and can prove) are utterly inaccurate at best, complete nonsense at worst.

Just a few quick examples:
Exodus did not happen
Hebrews were never enslaved in Egypt proper
Livestock will not breed spotted and striped livestock if they graze near decorated sticks
Humanity did not descend from one couple with two sons.
Joshua did not destroy the walls of jericho (there were not any at the time)
Joshua's armed conquest of many cities was easy... they were not inhabited at the time.

I suggest you stop reading whatever shit evangelist crap you are engaged in using as a laxative and go to Universtity of Tel Aviv Archeology Department. (It is online) and do some serious reading.

That will cure you...oh look up Mrs God (ashera) if you want your precious book of monotheistic myth exploded...the hebrews mostly had shrines to her in their homes...

If you cant be bothered to read as I suggested then stop blubbing like a two year old and go to church every Sunday after having a nice lobotomy, that will calm you down. Maybe a good bath in real Bullshit will help you get used to it.

(Edit:spelling, close brackets)

In Spirit's picture
Hello Rickswordfish

Hello Rickswordfish

So you want to know if the bible is the word of god or myth?

When I was a teenager an acquaintance that lived in my neighborhood was as curious as you are now. Are you mentally stable and very mature of age? I ask this because when this teenager asked me that question I told him to try something. He came back to me to say that the devil replied. I told him to stay away from me and never ask questions again. A year later he hacked his parents with an ax while they were asleep. For this reason alone I will never tell you what I told that kid.

I will say this instead....
How badly do you need to know? If a loving god exists, then it understands you and can't blame you. If a god exists and blames you then that god is not worth knowing. If no god exists you are fine. You're better off not knowing than fishing in a puddle of mud. Leave it up to the god that can reply if it so wishes. Pass the torch. It's not your burden as this world wants you to feel like it is.

Can you be blamed for being confused in a world that feeds us lies? Are we supposes to find 100 puzzle pieces among the billion pieces and be blamed if we fail? Why do you think atheism exists? This world gave them every right to become so.I am not telling you to choose between theism and atheism. Just pass the burden to the big guy and the burden is no longer yours. Live without the anxiety and fear.


Attach Image/Video?: 

watchman's picture
"how do you know its a myth

"how do you know its a myth please explain"...

OK...… I'll keep it brief...… myths tend to follow similar patterns..... both over time and geography ….. the stories take the same paths.

For instance.... most mythic heroes have "disturbed" childhoods.... usualy in danger and seldom raised at home...… thus...

King Arthur born as a kings bastard raised in exile by Merlin....

Romulus & Remus born in secret to a vestal virgin ...condemned by a usurper king ,abandoned by a river rescued and raised in exile by Faustulus ,a shepherd....

Perseus …. born to a princess ,condemned by the king ,set adrift with his mother..... washed ashore ,rescued and raised in exile by Dictys ,a fisherman....

see the patterns..... they are called MYTHIC look at these...…

Abraham as a child forced to flee from the evil king (Nimrod) … who massacres innocent children.

Moses forced to flee from his people/family due to the evil pharaoh …. who massacres innocent children.

Jesus forced to flee to Egypt to hide from the evil king (Herod) …..who massacres innocent children.

Mohammed forced to flee from Mecca by the evil polytheists (not a king but an authority)…… who massacres (not children but) innocent ,newly converted, "muslim" slaves.

see..... mythic cycle

Cognostic's picture
The Bible is a copy of

The Bible is a copy of ancient pre-Christian pagan myths rewritten with Christianity and its God taking over the lead role.
The Moses Myth, The Exodus myth, the Noah myth, The Genesis myth, The cosmic tree, The virgin Birth,
and of course the resurrection, along with nearly any other story you can pull from the bible are all based on ancient myths that predate the Christian faith.

watchman's picture
Exactly ….

Exactly ….

Rickswordfish's picture
Please just help me with my

Please just help me with my question

David Killens's picture
Prove that the bible is the

Prove that the bible is the word of god.

LogicFTW's picture


Please just help me with my question

Here is your answer, but you are not going to like it. You will deny it, you will try to figure out what is wrong with it, or just flat out ignore it.

All the evidence of god ever presented, is evidence that it is a human created lie. We can all agree humans are capable of lying and capable of creating fiction whether intentional or not.

No humans, no god. The ultimate evidence. Take the Americas an entire half of the globe, for 1500 years (since jesus christ supposedly lived) no one living in the americas ever heard of jesus christ. Jesus christ flatout did not exist to these people. There was zero evidence for them, they would have to wait until colonization (as brutal as it was to them,) to even HEAR of jesus christ. No humans no jesus christ.

Then you look for evidence of god (or jesus christ) that does not involve humans. How much have we found? How much do you even know of? Yep that's right. ZERO. There is more "evidence" for santa claus, the tooth fairy, (as poor and weak that evidence is!) then there is for the various god ideas.

Worse still people have been trying to "evidence" their god idea for 1000's of years. Billions of people? And in all that time? Has any supporting evidence shown up for a god? Nope! Instead things have gotten far worse for the "god" ideas. We are now mostly to "god of the gaps." A definition of god that basically defines god out of existence to us humans and therefore completely irrelevant to us.

Christianity is a rapidly fading shadow of what it used to be. Most people barely think about the christian god anymore in many "important" parts of the world. We use "god" far more as an expletive then to its actual meaning.

At the very least you must consider jesus christ and god is powerless and growing weaker, substantially weaker in the last 10% of how long christianity has been around.


I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.

Simon Moon's picture


"Please just help me with my question"

Asked and answered in post #194 by David Killens.


Rickswordfish's picture
I'm scared of going to hell

I'm scared of going to hell

David Killens's picture
Rickswordfish, I am not

Rickswordfish, I am not gloating or making fun of you. My father was in the same situation. Thank you for your candor. Live your life as a good Christian, I wish you the best.

Rickswordfish's picture
I dont want to be a good

I dont want to be a good christian, I want proof the bible is wrong


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