Struggling with bible prophecy

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Cognostic's picture
Rickswordfish: HA HA HA HA

Rickswordfish: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ........*wiping tears from my eyes. Holding my sides once again. Bent over in pain. No more pee left. Falling to the floor and curling up in a ball.* "It hurts... it hurts.... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ..*Small, whimpering, teary-eyed voice* "no facts" *Gasp for breath* HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA .....

(edited to add the link - not that anyone of the theist persuasion will ever read it.)

Cognostic's picture
@Rickswordfish: It can not

@Rickswordfish: It can not look true. It does not meet the criteria for prophecy. By what standard are you calling it true?? I gave you the standard for NORMAL PEOPLE. What standard are you using and why is it better than the commonly accepted standard? Please cite your standard for accepting it as true.

1. Non-specific so it is true.
2. Written vaguely enough to meet a million conditions so it is true.

What are your standards?

NewSkeptic's picture
Daniel is traveling tonight

Daniel is traveling tonight on a plane
I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain
Oh and I can see Daniel waving goodbye
God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes

Copyright to John/Taupin

Tin-Man's picture
@NewSkeptic Re: Daniel

@NewSkeptic Re: Daniel

Oooo... Nice. Good one... *grin*... Here's another I believe might be suitable for our new friend...

"... And I think it's gonna be a long-long time
'Till touch down brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no no no I'm a rocket man
Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone..."

(Sir Elton is awesome!)

NewSkeptic's picture


"(Sir Elton is awesome!)"

Yeah, I agree, except for the whole part about him needing to spend eternity in hell, because, well, you know, shhhh, keep this a secret, Elton is ah, um, weil you know, can I say it? I'm going to say it, he is a h , I mean, are you sure I can say it, Rickster has already threatened to report me, (have a backbone NS), ok I'm going to say it, Elton is a ho..., no, I can't say it.

Tin-Man's picture
@NewSkeptic Re: "Elton is a

@NewSkeptic Re: "Elton is a ho..., no, I can't say it."

...*rolling eyes*.... Oh, good grief! Why are you making this so difficult? So Sir Elton is a homeowner. What's the big deal? Not sure, though, why that would be any reason for God to send him to hell... *puzzled look*... Oh, wait. Were you trying to say Elton is a homosapien? Because in that case, then I totally understand the concern. For we all know how God loves to send his precious human pets to the swimming pool of eternal fire. It's like he is up there flipping a coin or playing rock-paper-scissors with Satan every time somebody dies. Lucky for all the other animals on the planet they don't have to worry about that shit.

Cognostic's picture
@New Skeptic: O for fuck

@New Skeptic: O for fuck sake. It's not a damn secret. Everyone in the world knows that Sir Elton John is a *DRUM ROLL*

watchman's picture
@Rickswordfish ….

@Rickswordfish ….

"Jesus death was the only one that came before the destruction of jerusalem and the temple"

"Jesus death was the only one ….. ???"

That's not exactly true is it ?

Look up the siege of Jerusalem BC587..... you know the one where the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem & the Temple..... and the Anointed one ?...… how about Zedekiah …… (the vassal king of Judah … appointed by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar.... an anointed one …)

These events fulfill your prophesy ….. and given that large chunks of Daniel were written AFTER the return of the Jews from the Babylonian exile ...its quite possible to see how the "prophesy" could have been both written and resolved at the same time... you see "Jesus was not the only one".... was he.?

Rickswordfish's picture
Why would the author of

Why would the author of daniel write a prophecy about something that already happened, that makes no sense

Nyarlathotep's picture
Rickswordfish - Why would the

Rickswordfish - Why would the author of daniel write a prophecy about something that already happened, that makes no sense

It makes perfect sense, if you are perpetuating a scam.

Rickswordfish's picture
What evidence is there that

What evidence is there that the bible is a scam

Nyarlathotep's picture
Rickswordfish - What evidence

Rickswordfish - What evidence is there that the bible is a scam

People magically coming back from the dead, magical talking animals, magical boats, magical floods, magical parting of seas, magical stopping of the sun, magically long life spans, a magic paradise, a magical punishment realm, a magical soul, magical demons and angels. I could keep going...

watchman's picture


Look at the circumstances at the time Daniel was being written...…

The northern kingdom (Israel ) had been wiped from the face of the earth..... its people scattered across the Assyrian empire...never to return.....

then Judah conquered ,overthrown ,absorbed into the Babylonian state … its people taken into Babylonia ….. how can this have happened to Gods chosen people ?

Captives in Babylon no temple no promised land.... then when against all odds they are restored to their home land (by Cyrus) … they can begin rebuilding the Temple..... but what of all the lost texts and artifacts of their faith.....

The urgent need was for a new narrative that offered an explanation of these earth shattering events.... this was the time of the great rewriting of Jewish beliefs.... this was when Ashera disappeared … this was when tales were re told ...making them as miraculous as possible ...and of course this is when prophesies were "constructed".

They were salvaging a belief system.

David Killens's picture


"What evidence is there that the bible is a scam"

Ernest Angley's private 747?


Attach Image/Video?: 

Tin-Man's picture
Re: "What evidence is there

Re: "What evidence is there that the bible is a scam"

@David K. - Ernest Angley?... *rolling eyes*... Puh-leeeeeeease... Ol' Ernest ain't got nuthin' on THIS guy...

Grinseed's picture
@ Tin-Man, yeah but only

@ Tin-Man, yeah but only sinners and deadbeats on the road to hell, would think that Jesus would actually want to live in a mud brick hut, insist on riding donkeys, and preach from hill tops....oh, wait.

Cognostic's picture
@Rickswordfish: How about,

@Rickswordfish: "What evidence is there that the bible is a scam" How about,

1. You have no idea at all who wrote the gospels.

2, Mark has two additional endings.

3. Half of Paul's letters are forgeries.

4. There are 4 distinct and different versions of Jesus in the bible.

5. The bible is full of historical shit that never happened.

6. There are NO original manuscripts so we have no idea at all what the original bible would have said.

7. The Woman caught in Adultery is a 4th Century addition to the bible.

8. Of all the 66 texts in the Bible, there doesn't exist one single handwritten original. We don't even have the first copies of the originals, we just have copies of copies of copies of copies etc.

9. The first five texts in the Bible; Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are not written by Moses as the Church usually

10. Among the later added parts, not in the original Gospel texts:
The sermon on the Mount,
The story of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:1-21)
and the stories of Jesus' resurrection!

This list can go on and on and on.

Rickswordfish's picture
What evidence is there that

What evidence is there that any of the things you listed are true

Cognostic's picture
@Rickswordfish: RE: What

@Rickswordfish: RE: What evidence is there that any of the things you listed are true?

Stop being an ignorant victim of ignorant beliefs and learn to do your own research troll.

Cognostic's picture
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...... "Oh how I wish you could hear yourself." Hahj ah dha wh ha ha ha ha ,,,,, i cmt type amy more ha ha ah ah ah a a a hah .

Cognostic's picture
@Rickswordfish: HA HA HA HA


There is not much theists do that make sense, unless they are attempting to con people out of money or convince crowds that miracles really happen.

Cognostic's picture
@Rickswordfish: Appeal to

@Rickswordfish: Appeal to motivation fallacy. You can not possibly Know what was in the writer's mind or why he did anything. What makes no sense is pretending that you can make sense out of it.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Rickswordfish - Keep it up

Rickswordfish - Keep it up ill report you for bullying

I think that is going to be a tough sell:

Rickswordfish - Look if youre not going to take this seriously and just act likema jackass stay off this forum

Rickswordfish - No i said daniel 9 was the prophecy, maybe you should try paying attention instead of acting like an asshole

Rickswordfish - Go fuck yourself

Sheldon's picture
Rickswordfish " a lot of

Rickswordfish " a lot of bible prophecies have seemingly come to pass, does anybody have rational explanations as to why so many prophecies have seemingly come true?"

They haven't, unless you can offer sufficient objective evidence, which I am prepared to wager a year's salary that you cannot. The unevidenced claims reference to an unexplained and unevidenced number of prophesies is of course a bare appeal to numbers, and therefore the common logical fallacy argumentum ad populum.

I'd also bet a month's salary you're trolling, purely based on a prima facie impression.

boomer47's picture
"why so many prophecies have

"why so many prophecies have seemingly come true?" I can't think of ONE.

It seems there MAY have been a wandering Rabbi called something like 'Yeshua Bar Yusuf (There is no 'J' in Hebrew ,and 'Jesus' is a latin name) in first century Judea. He may have upset the wrong people and gotten himself crucified. Nothing unusual there ; First century Judea was arse deep in wondering Rabbis. Not a stretch to assume at least one of them was crucified . During the Roman occupation, thousands of the Jews were crucified by the Romans .

Christians have cherry picked OT*** and used a couple of prophecies to shoehorn Yeshua into being the Mashiach .(Messiah) They have been too ignorant , too arrogant or too dishonest to actually look at all Jewish prophecy about the Messiah,. Should they do so they would discover why Jews did not/do not accept Jesus as the Messiah

Her's a few reasons: :

The Messiah is NOT divine

The Messiah is to be a warrior priest in the Davidic tradition.

He will not die.

He is to usher in an era of WORLD PEACE. for all people, not just Jews.

***The messianic concept is not mentioned ANYWHERE IN THE TORAH


Today most Christians simply ignore perhaps THE most important prophecy in the New Testament ; The Second Coming.

Jesus himself is quoted mentioning his return as "soon" and specifically, within the life time of some of the apostles .

Matthew 16:28 (KJV) "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

BUT, he did not come back and still has not , after 2000 years. That makes christianity just another failed millennial movement. There are still a couple of such movements/churches. EG Jehova's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists .These people use The Book Of Revelations to predict the end of days. When their prophecy does not come true, no problem, they come up with another time.


A couple of paragraphs about the Jewish concept of the Mashiach (Messiah)

"The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page. "

"The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being. "

Cognostic's picture
@Cranky "'Yeshua Bar Yusuf "

@Cranky "'Yeshua Bar Yusuf "
Another argument was made for the Greek Jesus, Apollonius of Tyana.

His mother had a visitor from heaven who told her, her son would be divine.

His birth was accompanied by divine heavenly signs.

He was the son of a god and a mortal woman

Asserted to be a native speaker of Aramaic

As an adult he left his home to become an wandering preacher.

Associated with wise men or magi.

He gathered followers around him who were convinced he was the son of god.

He wore long hair and robes.

He was unmarried and childless

He was anointed with oil

He made missionary journeys around Mediterranean.

He did miracles: He healed the sick, cast out demons, and raise the dead.

His ministry lasted for three years.

He was believed to be a "savior" from heaven.

He was able to see and predict the future.

He descended into the underworld

He was put on trial in Rome but they could not kill his soul. He ascended to heaven but unlike Jesus he lived to be 100 years old.

Had his image revered in temples

We actually have evidence that Apollonious existed: The earliest and by far the most detailed source is the Life of Apollonius of Tyana, a lengthy, novelistic biography written by the sophist Philostratus at the request of empress Julia Domna. It is claimed that hundreds of statues of Apollonius were erected during the first centuries of the Christian era with his fame as a "divine man" widespread around the Mediterranean.

Both Jesus and Paul were in part fabricated from that of Apollonius/

boomer47's picture


Yeah, I'm familiar with the story of Appolonius., but have not read a biography. Be interesting to discover at what point all those attributes were ascribed to him. The skeptic in me suspects it was probably well after his death, as with the mythology which grew up around the figure of Jesus after his [putative] death.

Also the notion if had it not been for Constantine and more so, the Emperor Theodosius, Mithraism could have been the dominant dominant world religion.---with a history going back to as far as the second century bce, it predates the Greek philosophers , Hinduism , Buddhism,Confucianism, Judaism and Christianity. Zoroastrianism is claimed to be the oldest continuously practiced religion in the world .

I've often wondered how Christianity would have fared without Augustine's Pax Romana, with its network of safe roads and being made the state religion by Theodosius.I think the importance having permission and encouragement to actually kill all opposition cannot be underestimated as a major factor in the spread of Christianity.


Apologies if we've covered this.

Could you be so kind as to let me know of your opinion of Saul of Tarsus an 'Paulism' as opposed to 'Christianity'?

Until recently , i haven't had a strong opinion. I'm aware that scholars are largely agreed that around half of the Pauline epistles a forgeries . And there is some doubt about the remainder .

I'm currently wading through "Paul: The Mind Of The Apostle" by A N Wilson, an historian I really like .Wilson takes a mythicist position. after thinking about this for a bit, I realised this MUST be my own position because I'ma mythicist about Jesus :

IE That there MAY have been a wandering rabbi in first century Judea. That he MIGHT have been called something thing like Yeshua/Yoshua bar Yusuf. (Yeshua was not an uncommon name) No stretch to believe he upset the wrong people and was crucified for sedition.-- not an unusual fate for a Jews at that time. The Romans crucified literally thousands of Jews during their occupation of Judea/

THAT the religion which came to be called Christianity (again thanks to Theodosius) has little if anything to do with an historical person. That if I take this position, I need to also take a mythicist position about Paul's epistles at the every least. I think I'm obliged to have close look at the historicity of Saul, which I've only just begun.

Grinseed's picture
THE prophecies of Daniel are

THE prophecies of Daniel are all came about up to Daniel 11. After that none of the prophecies were realised ie the Selucid emperor did not conquer his nemesis in Egypt and then die in battle in Israel against the host of heaven and the Messiah. He actually died in bed a decade later in Babylon.
Theist historians for the past 300 years have agreed Daniel was written after the Babylonian exile to provide moral support for a broken Jewish tribe.
ALL the prophecies up to Daniel 11 had already happened at time of writing. The rest never happened.
There is no connection to Yeshua of Nazareth in Daniel.
Research and read responsibly.

Cognostic's picture
@Ripswrdfishy: HA HA HA HA

@Ripswrdfishy: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA,... i am laying on the flooor in a puddle of pee and can't write no more. here, watch a video///

Nyarlathotep's picture
Rickswordfish - Who says i

Rickswordfish - Who says i cant believe somethings and be skeptical about others

It seems you were the one who said it:

Rickswordfish - ...I always approach everything with skepticism


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