Hi, I'm an ex-atheist,
What if, atheists are all deceived by Satan? Of course, I've already heard atheist saying, "If God has a problem with atheist, He should just show up to them and prove that He is real". But by definition, God is perfect, He is just, He is waiting for our decisions, He is a gentlemen, He will not use force, first lets keep those in mind.
So, what if an angel or a devil or God suddenly show up to atheist? They will inevitably believe in the spiritual realm, and will believe in God. But, let me introduce you to Satan, since he doesn't want you to believe in God, Satan will to show up to atheist, and will not want God to show up to atheist. Satan is a deceiver by definition, even though you think you are not deceived, you probably are.
But why won't God show up to atheist if he loves us? Because Satan has rights, you have rights to make your own decision(Remember, God is just). He can't just show up.
So, we are probably being deceived people!
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@Deme3: He is a gentlemen, He will not use force
So Noah's flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah weren't force? And this "gentleman" didn't ask Mary if she'd like to be impregnated. He just raped her and sent an underling to tell her about it.
Satan is redundant in the Judaeo-Christian myth. God is evil enough all on his own. Intense religious experiences belong in the realm of mental and physical illness and substance abuse.
Deme3, you asked, “Why do atheists only say God doesn't exist? Why not Satan?”
I am identified as atheist. I have NEVER said any god doesn’t exist.
If I said that both god and satan do not exist, why would you put the blame on satan, rather than the god who allegedly made me that way?
If god is just, then it would consider it wrong to judge beings it created for acting the way they were created.
If you read the Bible carefully, we are not the way we are created anymore
I think you are limiting the power of god.
I? Don't use the word "I". Hmm, okay. Do you often use cheat engine? If you do, you will eventually find that it is meaningless to play the game if it always goes the way you want.
No one ain't limiting the power of God. If anyone is limiting the power of God, what much can a three pound brain change, that is, it doesn't affect the power of God.
If you read Genesis, you can see that Everything doesn't work according to God's will.
If people still believed Genesis to be true, we'd still be in the Iron Age.
Lol, if Genesis wasn't true, there won't be any sort of age. I suggest you read the book of Enoch. It is interesting, read it at least like a fairytale
The people who wrote the bible had inferior understanding of the natural world compared to a child of the 21st century, and I find their morals abominable.
For atheist, there's no such things as moral. We are a bunch of compounds with a 3 pound brain in a really really big universe.
Being an atheist has no relevance to whether a person thinks morality exists or not. It also has no relevance to how they see the universe.
"I find their morals abominable."
Anyway, I wonder with what moral do you compare the writers of the Bible. I can tell that you are raised in a methodical society, and those morals of the society still sticks to you.
Personally, I would like to maximize pleasure & minimize harm. This is preferable in my view to genocide and torture.
See, there's some image of God in you
Why do you say that? The biblical god engages in genocide and torture, and has no interest in maximizing pleasure & minimizing harm.
Anyway, lets get philosophical, like real philosophical. Why do you wanna live? Why do you wake up every morning? Why don't you wanna end your life like right now? The answer is one word: Love. The love for yourself, the love for lust, the love for your children....etc. Now, again, why do we love? why do we care? How can a bunch of carbon compounds care for another bunch of the same?. The universe is too beautiful to be a mistake. Why are we here?.
This is as far as what I know about God - God created men, this might sound okay for you, but it was never okay for me, I asked again, "Why did God created man?", there's a doctrine that most Christians agree with, that is, when Satan and his "friends" were thrown to Earth, God created men to fellowship with him (now, some say God could possibly create other beings too, ie, aliens, i couldn't be sure about this anyhow), now you can see our purpose here, it was never to enter heaven or hell(religion), it was to have a relationship with God. Now, I was not okay with the whole fellowship thing again, then I realized, (before that have you ever loved someone? I mean deeply), i supposed it would feel like that when you're next to someone you love the most. God created Adam in the Garden of Eden, (Eden and Earth are not the same), then God told him that he should not eat the fruit(some say the fruit here is metaphorical) .Then God created Eve for Adam and Adam for Eve, for what? Pretty obvious, to love each other. But one day as you probably know, the snake came, tempted Eve, now here's the catch, Eve never received the word not to eat the fruit from God directly, it was from Adam, so Eve gave in the temptation. So Eve told Adam, that she had eaten the fruit, Adam, hearing this, he was crushed, he knew the consequences, he knew that Eve had fallen short for the glory of god. But, how can he live without the one he loves for eternity? So, he took the fruit and ate it voluntarily. From that day, Adam and Eve lost the relationship with God, no one could never restore the relationship, that's why I think those guys in the old testament could have perceive the wrong stuffs. But it doesn't end there. In Genesis, God made another promise to restore the relationship, Gen: 3:14 - God said to Satan that the seed of woman would crush the serpent's head. Are you the seed of woman? Am I the seed of woman? No, we are the seed of man. But who could be the seed of a woman? Well Jesus. In short, Jesus restored the relationship between man and God, everyone can have the intimacy with God now. Which I experience while I was an atheist. He touch me, I felt his presence, He is real, with the evidence of the gifts of the holy spirit.
This is how I think anyway. It is like this, an apple fell on my head, it was a prove that a force is pulling the apple. I can't know much about the force, but I can deduce it to figures and theories.
So, maximizing the harm? That's probably us, we did that to ourselves. God has interest on maximizing relationship.
I refrain from killing myself because I believe it would be a destructive act. In my view, it would reduce my future happiness.
I do not believe the universe is a mistake - I do not find such a label meaningful. I understand everything has happening within the laws of nature, and thus understand my existence as being contingent on them. I do not really spend a great deal of time wondering "Why" I am here - it doesn't have any practical bearing on my life.
A being that not only creates harm, but carries out eternal torture, is not interested in maximizing pleasure & minimizing harm.
In regards Adam and Eve: I don't see how metaphor is at useful when going from the specific to the general. Perhaps you could limit yourself to the facts?
Why do you think God created Hell for us? lol, reducing future happiness? i got a word for that, narcissism, what's that? it's the love of oneself. Again, if you read the Bible carefully, hell is not for us.
The bible makes it clear on several occasions that humans are sent there, and endure pain there. By the way, my criticism of god engaging in torture of sentient beings is not concerned with any specific species.
You tell me to read the bible carefully in regards hell, but the truth is, the hell of the Old Testament is different from the hell of the New Testament, and millions have read the verses very carefully and yet have managed to be in disagreement about whether it is supposed to be physical or metaphorical.
I'll spare you the hard work and confusion, it's not metaphorical.
It is clear that the people who wrote the bible knew nothing about the real world. I do not doubt however that you and they know hell.
Not only know, some has seen it, now you are going to say, it's an illusion, but, people who never knew the word "hell" exists, seen it too.
" I do not really spend a great deal of time wondering "Why" I am here - it doesn't have any practical bearing on my life." says the guy who has a serious moral issues in life.
I do not think why I am here has any bearing whatsoever on what my moral code should be.
It seems that your morality is contingent on the existence of god - or rather, your belief in the existence of god.
Have you read the book "The Stranger" by Albert Camus? Meursault, the guy in the book is a 100% atheist.
I have read The Stranger.
Again, whether a person is an atheist or a theist has no bearing on whether or not they think morality exists.
Have you read the bible? Abraham, a guy in the book, was prepared to kill his son because god told him to. He was 100% a theist.
Again, what makes you still think killing is bad? Brainwashed by society huh? About Abraham, I admire his faith. Look, I can't prove if the Bible is 100% correct, but have proven that God exists. I know, reading the Old Testament kind of freaks me out too, but He is up there. And I will admit it, the amount of killing deceases as their IQ increases. I had a lot of questions, but if you dig deeper it all makes sense.
If taking someone's life contrary to their will is not bad, then nothing is bad.
Do you admire child killers generally?
It seems that proving god exists is more important to you than being moral.
When I was like you, moral was like God, it never existed. But, I'll tell you, moral is one of the most important thing in Christian life. For more you can search for the fruits of the Holy Spirit(It's not that spiritual, it's about moral)
Would you kill children if god told you to? Is there anything so immoral that you would not do it?
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