Why do atheists only say God doesn't exist? Why not Satan?
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God will never want me to actually kill a child.
Lets use the child again, suppose you see a child, i think it is both important to believe that the child has a mom and dad.
It was more than a moral act, it was a sacrificial act. Don't you think it hurt Abraham too?
Like many theists, you confuse your own opinion with the mind of god. There have been millions of people throughout history who have done terrible things because they believed (or claimed that) god told them to.
If god "will never want me to actually kill a child." ...then in what sense was Abraham tested, and hurt?
Killing a child is not a sacrifice - it is depriving another individual of their life. Nowadays, an individual such as Abraham would be charged with attempted murder.
So you do pretend to know the attributes and thinking of your god.
I agree, Deme3. Abraham loved God so much that he was willing to kill for Him. Even though it's against the commandments,, he still walked up that hill, put his son on the slab and listened to God's voice. Now, that's love. Unquestionable, "blind" obedience. I wish I was like him.
Re: "We were not what we were supposed to be."
Even though god made Man PERFECT in god's own image.
Re: "I think God wasn't sure if he can trust humans anymore..."
Even though god supposedly knows every single detailed thought of every single creature that has ever existed or ever will exist. Which also places a HUGE question mark over why Abraham needed testing in the first place. God should have already known the results.
*excited sports announcer voice*... "Oh, wow! He really got ahold of that one, ladies and gentlemen! It's getting higher and higher heading for deep center field! It's going!...Going!... It's GONE!... All the way over the stadium wall and into the parking lot, folks! Amazing!"
Hey, congrats, dude. You just slammed the whole omniscience crap right out of the park.
Is there any evidence for either a god or a satan?
So, who the fuck cares.
There's nothing new under the sun bro, but if you find something new under the sun, you are probably new under the sun. You should learn more about the spiritual realm
You may drink from the kool aid my friend, I shall stick to the vintage.
Please explain God's Nastiest Turd. I'll sum it up for you. God is the most evil, malevolent, bigoted, malicious, wicked, malignant, vengeful, hostile, sinister, murderous entity to ever haunt humanity in all existence.
And just like you are trying to do here, your Absolutist religions have...
Murdered, Raped, Tortured, Lied, Extorted, Sacrificed, Ravaged, Swindled, Exploited, Plundered, Abused, Coerced, Pillaged, Tormented, Harassed, Rampaged, Insulted, Endangered, Threatened, Oppressed, Persecuted, Ethnic Cleansing, Terrorized, Mutilated Genitalia, Enslaved, Molested and Raped Children, Corrupted, Genocidal Cleansing (Did I miss any? How many?)
...in the name of God for centuries around the world to spread such a theological message.
But I am the one going to Hell for not believing your bullshit?
I cannot believe in the existence of any entity that is so evil it makes your Satan look like the good guy.
Generally atheists don't say 'no gods exist' but instead 'we don't believe in any gods'
Now if you're asking why somebody may say about the god of the Bible in particular 'it doesn't exist' then that's a different question.
How are you guys putting up with Deme3's mindless blatherings? I don't get how the most inane post we have had in weeks gets to 5 pages. He is not listening to you. He is just egging you on. He is a troll and he is not interested in anything anyone has to say. His arguments are vapid. His responses and asserted nonsense and boring.
Mods, I believe we have reached the saturation point of being trolled. All that is happening now is that all responses by Deme3 are just reversing/evading the question.
@ David Killens FINALLY! Another voice of reason. I have been wading through his offal for days and wondering why people bother responding.
I was weary of commenting too much after reading the opening line, an ex atheist.
That is the gold standard online of horse excrement.
TBW, don't worry about commenting too much. There's no such thing on a public forum. Go for it.
Sure, Well God doesn't appear to be defined well to me and is just a label on the box for the credulous to place their 'I don't know' toys within.
Replace God or Satan with any rubbish and it equally makes no sense, whatsoever!
What if, atheists are all deceived by Quigglethumper?
Quigglethumper was one of the cosmic unicorns favourite hybrid Hound cross Dragon!
But he was cast out from the realm outside of the realm, into another realm, for shitting on the carpet.
The cosmic unicorn is a merciful all knowing deity, but it doesn't know where its first creations are (Dave and Linda, Linda was made from the tooth of Dave, put your finger in your mouth, not that one, no don't be silly of course not that one, no, no, yes!, no go back! yes that tooth), caused the ice ages every time it wanted a mojito on ice and likes you to all kneel and pray in the direction of Dagenham to thank the great unicorn for never interfering with our perceived reality.
Where does the nonsense stop?
Oh man, that was funny!
well done.. *turns up collar* PSSt.there is a scriptwriters job going soon as everyone else cant concentrate with a certain *looks around suspiciously* clanker *checks all the corners* hissing and fuming and ...weell, CLANKING....when we are trying our best to be amusing....
But you got it in spades..and no clanking...Psst...don't tell you know who...*whispers* we will be in touch....
@Old Man & TBW
Hey, Old Man, no need to whisper. Hell, even I would suggest you hire TBW! That was hilarious!
*approaching with hat in hand and pleading eyes*.... Please... Teach me, O' Wise Wielder of Wicked Wit. Let me be your humble student...
Absolutely brilliant from TBW, this kind of humour and wit is much needed these days.
Keep it up you guys!
And where is it? I have yet to see any proof or evidence.
Take a gander at this Atheist Quote in the AR Gallery.
Here is another one for ya.
How do you folks waste your time talking to this guy? I don't get it? No sense of logic. No ability to have a rational discourse. And still you keep trying. You can lead the cookie monster to a cookie but you can't make him wear your underpants. Isn't that obvious?
For some of us it is fun.
"Atheist" is just a marquee word that is readily used and understood. A term such as "Materialist" would personally describe me better. Generally, while in Western society, if religion is discussed at all, it is in reference to the Christian or Muslim god. It would be odd during such discussions to mention that I do not believe in Quetzalcoatl, although I don't doubt it would be an effective way of making a point.
I am late to the party, but figured I would throw in my 2 cents.
I apologize if I repeat what others have already said in this thread, with over 100 replies I did not care to read them all, and scanned through only a few of them.
Only say? Really you want to make that assersition? Satan does not exist eithir. I am an atheist, bam! you are wrong. I feel most people well versed in the ability to make conversation can easily assume most atheist also deny Satan does not exist either, I would hope most people with the ability to carry on normal reasonable thought and conversation can probably work with the assumption that an atheist also disbelieves in satan / the devil, etc. Even if the atheist does not outright say it.
Let's put it another way so called "ex atheist:" I assume you do not believe santa claus is real, you did not have to tell me that you do not believe in santa claus, it is just common knowledge that most all theist do not believe in Santa Claus. I can also safely assume that you do not believe in Zeus. How dumb would it sound to you if I made a post labeled: How come all theist believe in Santa?
I am actually really interested in how you went from an atheist to ex-atheist what reasoning process did you go through to decide you were no longer an atheist?
Care to explain how all atheist are deceived by satan? Remember at least some atheist (including this one) do not even believe in satan. It sounds an awful lot like you read the quote "the devil's greatest trick is convincing people he is not real" which is a very problematic quote because it is a completely unevidenced statement. The devil is unevidenced, that such an idea would try to trick people is unevidenced, that he is real or not is unevidenced.
Sure a definition of god can say that, not all definitions of god say he is perfect and the rest you said, but sure your definition. Which is really not saying much at all, its not even a commonly accepted definition. Go look up the definition of god, you will not find that definition you laid out in the major english dictionaries. Even if it was, that is just a definition of a word people use that people agree on, it tells us nothing about the actuality and fact of god. It is completely unevidenced it has zero connection to a testable reality. It is purely within the realm of thought and idea and metaphysical. Completely subject to the whim of anyone imagination based on zero rules.
Well this idea that I hear people talk about that they label "god" supposedly in imagination world has unlimited powers. So god would not even have to show up, he could simply just make me believe when ever he felt like. He could make me dance around and act like a chicken if he felt like it. He could make me give away all my worldly possessions and jump off a bridge if he wanted to. He could make me believe in it. If a god idea showed up just to try and convince me, and I was left with free will, I would demand to know which god he was. Every major religion depiction of god is so abhorrent, that I may even decide with enough compelling evidence god is real and as depicted by one of these major religions I know of, but I most certainly would not be interested in worshipping it, or want to spend eternity in heaven with it. I would actually approach what I somehow now knew was god and say "what the fuck dude? Why are you so fucked up? Your actions are not that of some highly intelligent being but more of a completely insane human with great power."
*looks around* where is this satan you speak of? I see no satan, I can't hear or feel or anything this satan. This satan of yours is completely undetectable to me. OH, duh you mean: "let me introduce to you my idea of satan." Okay, I met it, I think your idea is stupid it makes no sense, and it is completely lacking of any evidence, I have zero reason to think this anything more than idea of yours, an idea that you heard or read from another person, that in turn heard it from someone else and so on. An idea that morphed and changed with time in a 3000+ year old game of line up whisper telephone game kids play.
Again, your definition. I actually do not even know what the commonly accepted general definition of satan is. How do you know I am deceived? Can you read my mind? Do you possess great intellectual capacity that far exceeds my own and any human I ever heard of?
God loves me? How do you know that? Back before I was a strong atheist, (agnostic or just a dumb little uneducated little child.) I never noticed any god, and I certainly never noticed this god idea's love for me. So why do you know god loves me but I do not? I suppose you are going to say another fictional character idea explains all that, satan deceived me! How convenient for you! How do you think god is just reading the various major religions description of god? The major religions I have heard and read about god idea is a homicidal maniac and I feel could never be described even remotely "just."
So satan has rights? (how do you know that?) but the almighty powerful god idea is powerless against satan because he wants us to make our own decision about if he is real or not? How does that make any sense at all to you? To me it feels about roughly equivalent to a 3 year olds defense/argument for why he should not be in trouble for stealing the toy fire truck from his 2 year old brother.
You said we, was that a mistake? I assume you are not including yourself, as you came to an atheist debate board to state what is an obvious known truth to you, but all the atheist here are deceived, by another completely unevidenced idea.
Most likely scenario? You are trolling for responses, oh well I obliged, I like pointing out how stupid various god is real arguments are.
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