Why do atheists only say God doesn't exist? Why not Satan?

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Anonymous's picture
When Amazon's Religion forum

When Amazon's Religion forum was closed (as all their other forums), I just stopped going online so much because I couldn't find a forum like amazon's. AR is a really good one. I'm glad you found it, too. Start donating! It's only $3 a month.

arakish's picture
And you kind sir are a

And you kind sir are a Religious Absolutist who will change definitions to suit your lies.

Pythagorean Theorem: a theorem in geometry: the square of the length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle equals the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides.

You changed it to seem to be a "belief" you damned lying Religious Absolutist.

rmfr

Sheldon's picture
"God is not a belief."

"God is not a belief."

French fries are not monkeys, since we're posting irrelevant straw man arguments.

Pythagoras's theorem is not a belief, it's a mathematical theorem , that there is a fundamental relation in Euclidean geometry among the three sides of a right triangle. I believe it is correct, but that is a different matter, as some beliefs can be objectively justified, and others cannot. Archaic superstitions about magic apples, talking snakes, flying horses and virgin births fall into the latter category.

Again what objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity is real? If you deny the validity of objective evidence and methods then why bother coming here, as we can all simply believe whatever we want to.

Randomhero1982's picture
Nope...

, I am talking about God.

Nope...

You are talking about... utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter bollocks.

Cognostic's picture
OP: "Anyway, my post is just

OP: "Anyway, my post is just a string of evidenced assertions." I call "BULLSHIT!" There is not a single remark in your original post that could be called evidence. NOT ONE. You log in here and regardless of the overwhelming evidence provided to you and FACTS concerning your bizarre and inane replies, you keep flapping your gums with idiotic statement after idiotic statement. Frankly I am surprised the good atheists on the site are putting up with you. I would have rubbed you out on the first page.

Demetri Vanlalrelkima's picture
You are not that different

You are not that different from religious people you know.

Sheldon's picture
"You are not that different

"You are not that different from religious people you know."

Given how wildly different religious people are that is hilarious. I can say with a high degree of certainty that I differ in at least one way from religious people. I don't believe in and or worship any superhuman controlling power.

mbrownec's picture
My standard reply to

My standard reply to inquiries on the existence of God is: I do not believe that God (any god), Satan, Heaven or Hell exist. I do not believe that ANY supernatural beings or places exist.

Cognostic's picture
We know as much about the

We know as much about the Satan Mythology as we do about the God Mythology. The reason you don't hear so much about it is because many Christian sects as well as the Jews, AGREE WITH US. "THERE IS NO REASON TO BELIEVE IN A SATAN." This evil demon Satan in charge of a lake of fair (or fire "if I want to be more accurate) appears no where in the Jewish faith and is a late arrival to the Christian faith. The word Satan simply means opponent. Satan himself was akin to the prosecutor (an angel) who simply reported to god the negative things you did throughout your life. Then the Christians got hold of the story and went BAT SHIT CRAZY.

The christian Satan is stolen from Babylonian Zoroastrianism as the opponent of the good God, an enemy who will fight against this good God. The personage of Satan can be traced to Dante's Inferno. We know the form and punishments of Satan today because of Dante. The ancient Romans for example; called Satan the "The Horned God of the Forest." A Pan like creature. A Heathen (people who live on the heaths outside Rome) god. Roman Christians threatened their children with things like "If you are not good the Horned God of the Forest will come at night and carry you away."

"new nationwide survey of adults’ spiritual beliefs, conducted by The Barna Group, suggests that Americans who consider themselves to be Christian have a diverse set of beliefs –but many of those beliefs are contradictory or, at least, inconsistent. The survey explored beliefs about spiritual beings, the influence of faith on their life, views of the Bible, and reactions to faiths other than their own.............

Four out of ten Christians (40%) strongly agreed that Satan “is not a living being but is a symbol of evil.” An additional two out of ten Christians (19%) said they “agree somewhat” with that perspective. A minority of Christians indicated that they believe Satan is real by disagreeing with the statement: one-quarter (26%) disagreed strongly and about one-tenth (9%) disagreed somewhat. The remaining 8% were not sure what they believe about the existence of Satan."

https://www.barna.com/research/most-american-christians-do-not-believe-t...

In short: Objecting to Satan does not upset the Christian status quo.

Tin-Man's picture
@OP

@OP

Re: "But by definition, God is perfect, He is just, He is waiting for our decisions, He is a gentlemen, He will not use force, first lets keep those in mind."

Yet, he will toss your heathen ass into the pits of hell where you will be tortured forever if you do not believe in him..... Hmmmm.... *scratching chin*.... Nope, no use of force there. Threats and extortion, perhaps, but no direct use of force. Unless, of course, you count the flood, the plagues, and all the genocidal wars he ordered against all those folks who didn't worship him. Otherwise, no force at all. You are totally "free" to choose.

Re: "But, let me introduce you to Satan, since he doesn't want you to believe in God, Satan will to show up to atheist, and will not want God to show up to atheist. Satan is a deceiver by definition, even though you think you are not deceived, you probably are."

Sooooo.... Satan is more powerful than god? Or at least equal in power? Because you indicated Satan could somehow "block god" from appearing to atheists. And if we ARE somehow being deceived by Satan, is your god powerless to counter that deceit? Tsk-tsk... What a pity, especially considering it was your god who reportedly CREATED Satan in the first place. Perplexing, to say the least. And if I am being deceived but think I am not being deceived and it is Satan doing the deceiving having been created by god to deceive me without my knowing I am being deceived, then would that not mean god - having created the "Father of Lies" - is actually the one responsible for deceiving me? Fortunately for me, I do not believe any of that hogwash is real, therefore I do not have the burden of doing the mental contortionism to somehow rationalize the absurdity of the whole thing. Personally, if I want to strain my brain a little, I simply do a few Kakuro, Sudoku, or Ken-Ken puzzles. But, hey, whatever floats your boat.

Re: "Because Satan has rights, you have rights to make your own decision(Remember, God is just)."

I quite literally laughed out loud when I read that. Honestly. My wife looked over at me like I was crazy. Had to read it to her. She simply rolled her eyes, shook her head in amazement, and turned back to what she had been doing. Anyway, please, by all means, do go and deliver those words of wisdom and comfort to the untold thousands of children who have been molested and raped by priests and other church clergy spanning almost all Christian denominations. Please, please tell them all how just and fair it is for them to have to suffer severe mental and emotional trauma, and have nightmares and psychological problems for the remainder of their lives, because good ol' Lucifer has God-given rights. I'm sure that will help ease their anguish and suffering. Oh, and all of those people getting burned alive for being accused of being witches? No doubt they and their families will certainly gain peace and comfort in the knowledge that your god is loving, caring, and just. Yep, personally, I'm getting all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

By the way, you might want to zip up your fly, dude. Your delusion is showing....

Demetri Vanlalrelkima's picture
Okay, slow down there dude,

Okay, slow down there dude, God is not responsible for everything. Anyway this is how you sound like:-

(You ate a lot of chilli)

Tin man - Oww, my stomach hurts, dang, I hate God for making my stomach ache, I am going to turn into an atheist, I hate God, he made my stomach ache, I hate how he made people hungry, mentally ill, being raped, oh, I just hate him.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, "God didn't do those, we did it". Just like you ate chilli and made your stomach ache.

And for your "Satan is more powerful than God?" argument, that's a stupid question because, according to Christians, Satan wanted to be like God, to be of his equal...

Nyarlathotep's picture
Deme3 - God is not

Deme3 - God is not responsible for everything.

According to the bible he is.

Demetri Vanlalrelkima's picture
Should we dive in to pre

Should we dive in to pre-destination? lol, let me show you a glimpse of philosophy, why would you watch a football match if you already know the results? Why would you ask a girl out, if you already know her answer?

Anyway, your bible seems weird. If you read it carefully, we are mostly responsible

Tin-Man's picture
@Deme3 Re: "Okay, slow down

@Deme3 Re: "Okay, slow down there dude, God is not responsible for everything."

Oh-my-goodness-gracious!...LMAO..... Thank you so very much, Arakish, for your Third Commandment. If I had been eating or drinking anything when I read that statement, much spewing would have ensued. So, god is not responsible for everything???..... *loooooong slow whistle*..... Man, THAT is profound! *chuckle*... Uh, let me see if I have this straight......

The god that is powerful enough to create the entire universe and man, along with every single living creature on Earth and anywhere else in the vastness of the universe.
The god that is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT in every way, shape, and form.
The god that is supposedly all-loving, all-caring, all-forgiving, and omnibenevolent.
The very same god that created Satan/Lucifer/The Devil and ALLLLLLL the evil demons and creatures that have ever been mentioned in the bible.
The god that calls himself by the name of "Jealous".
The god that is supposedly omnipotent and capable of doing ANYTHING it wants to do.
The god that is omniscient and knows EVERYTHING, including every single thought we have ever had and ever will have. He even knew these things eons before we were ever conceived.
The very same god that created Man in "HIS IMAGE", and gave Man a brain to think.
The very same god that supposedly controls every single minute action down to the microscopic level as part of some "Perfect Plan" for Mankind.
The god that supposedly knows down to the micro-second every single event that will ever happen throughout the entire existence of everything, because - again - he has "a plan" that CANNOT BE ALTERED.

You talking about THAT god? You mean THAT god is not responsible for everything?.... *nodding head in mock agreement*.... Riiiiight.....

So, just for a moment, let's bring this down to a more "earthly" and "practical" level. (Fun hypothetical exercise follows.)...

Let us pretend we have a ship builder/sailor who has such skills and mastery of the sea that he can control the ocean tides, and the weather, and even control the very movements of every single creature that lives within the ocean. And one day this incredibly gifted individual decides to build a passenger ship that can carry a dozen people comfortably across the ocean. (With me so far?)

Now, this ship builder does not use any other people to help him work. He does every.... single.... detail of the building with his very own hands. He does not even buy parts from other places. He just uses raw materials and manufactures anything and everything he needs to build the ship, right down to the tiniest screw and even hand sews all the curtains and table clothes and bed linens. In other words, he makes EVERYTHING involved in building that ship. Then the day finally comes to launch the ship with its dozen passengers aboard for its maiden voyage. Naturally, the weather is perfect that day, because the ship builder/sailor easily controls the weather at will. So, off they go to cross the ocean.

However, about halfway across, the engines malfunction and stop, leaving the ship adrift with no control. Then a terrible storm develops and causes a massive wave to crash over the ship. This causes the ship to capsize and then sink, thus killing everybody aboard. Except for the builder/sailor, of course, who summoned a dolphin to rescue him and take him to a nearby island.

Who is responsible for the sinking of the ship and the death of those passengers?

Your god created EVERYTHING.
Your god planned EVERYTHING.
Your god knows EVERYTHING.
Your god can do EVERYTHING.
But you then have the audacity to claim your god is not RESPONSIBLE for everything???.... *corner of mouth twitching*.... *shaking head in total bewilderment*.... Damn, dude, I swear, you should either be a politician or a stand-up comedian.

Demetri Vanlalrelkima's picture
"Your god created EVERYTHING.

"Your god created EVERYTHING.
Your god planned EVERYTHING.
Your god knows EVERYTHING.
Your god can do EVERYTHING."

I haven't proved these four statements, I wonder how you prove these.

Tin-Man's picture
@Deme3 Re: "I haven't

@Deme3 Re: "I haven't proved these four statements, I wonder how you prove these."

lol.... Wow, you really are a special kind of dense, aren't you?... *chuckle*... Actually, no, I don't believe that for a minute. You aren't stupid, you are just being intentionally obtuse for the sake of entertaining yourself. That's fine. Boredom does suck, and I imagine you do need a break from the video games from time to time. Kudos to you. *grin* For the sake of clarity, though, I'll play for another moment.

Obviously, what you fail to understand is that NOBODY can prove any of those statements. And, more specifically, I do not even BELIEVE any of those statements. So my wanting or trying to prove them would be pretty damn foolish, I would think. Here's the thing, though.... It does not matter one tiny iota whether or not those things can be proven. Does... Not.... Matter. It does not matter becuse - regardless of whether or not any of that nonsense is true - it is what many millions of people BELIEVE. It is what they were taught, and it is what they perceive to be true. It is what I was taught, and what I believed for a majority of my life. No proof required. You either believed in all of those things that totally defy any and all reason, logic, and common sense, or you risked having your doubtful ass toasted over an open flame for all eternity. Period. And whatever you do, NEVER question The Word of God/Jesus/The Lord. Because that is one of the most expedient ways to get placed in the Express Lane to Hell. If something doesn't make sense to you, then just accept that god is mysterious and we cannot understand him, and then go pray for forgiveness for having doubts. Again, no proof required.

That is what I was taught. That is how I was raised. And that is exactly how many millions of other people are taught and raised. That is why it took a vast majority of my life to escape from that quagmire of mind-numbingly insidious brainwashing diatribe.

But - hey - if that is something you really want to spend your life believing in, supporting, and defending, then whatever floats your boat, dude. No skin off my nose.

Edit to add: Oh, shoot! Almost forgot the best part! How silly of me. So, along with the "No proof required", it is impotant to note that in many (most) cases out there it is also a matter of "No proof desired". Pretty obvious how trying to reason with somebody like that is quite the futile endeavor.

Sheldon's picture
"God is not responsible for

"God is not responsible for everything."

Nor are mermaids, or unicorns, or garden fairies, in fact no fictional things are responsible for everything, if only we could piece all this together???

arakish's picture
Deme3: "Why do atheists only

Deme3: "Why do atheists only say God doesn't exist? Why not Satan?"

Atheist do NOT say "God does not exist." You make these preposterous claims and we only say, "I do NOT believe you."

Where do you come up with this bullshit?

Now to go back and read the OP and other posts...

rmfr

arakish's picture
Read the OP. Haven't read

Read the OP. Haven't read other posts yet. I want to have fun with the OP. ;-)

Deme3: "Hi, I'm an ex-atheist,"

Well, ain't you just a sorry party pooper.

Deme3: "What if, atheists are all deceived by Satan? Of course, I've already heard atheist saying, "If God has a problem with atheist, He should just show up to them and prove that He is real". But by definition, God is perfect, He is just, He is waiting for our decisions, He is a gentlemen, He will not use force, first lets keep those in mind."

ROFLMAO! Seriously dude? SERIOUSLY? Then take a gander at this: God's Nastiest Turd.

Deme3: "So, what if an angel or a devil or God suddenly show up to atheist?"

I'd tell it to do as I have already said when asked, "What if God is real?" Suck my dookie chute dry.

Deme3: "They will inevitably believe in the spiritual realm, and will believe in God."

No I shan't. I'd ask for a laboratory so I can subject it to a million and one tests.

Deme3: "But, let me introduce you to Satan, since he doesn't want you to believe in God, Satan will to show up to atheist, and will not want God to show up to atheist. Satan is a deceiver by definition, even though you think you are not deceived, you probably are."

I am still waiting for the introduction...

Deme3: "But why won't God show up to atheist if he loves us?"

Unless he does show himself, I do not have to belief your bullshit.

Deme3: "Because Satan has rights, you have rights to make your own decision (Remember, God is just)."

Remember, look at God's Nastiest Turd.

Deme3: "He can't just show up."

Why not?

Deme3: "So, we are probably being deceived people!"

I'd rather be deceived than to have my mental faculties utterly eradicated by a bunch of Religious Absolutists who have no clue.

Now let me go read the other posts.

rmfr

Demetri Vanlalrelkima's picture
Naah, you won't go to the

Naah, you won't go to the laboratory. I can see that you want no one to threaten your unbelief, but what if someone does so? You will start to use slang words and make fun of them. Christians do this to atheist too. So, I put you under the common people with low intellectual.

arakish's picture
Deme3: Naah, you won't go to

Deme3: Naah, you won't go to the laboratory.

Yes I would. It would be the only way to test it through the scientific method.

Deme3: I can see that you want no one to threaten your unbelief, but what if someone does so?

You threaten my unbelief. ROFLMAOPOM!! That is so hilarious. There has NEVER been any Religious Absolutist who could threaten my unbelief. You least of all. But if you think you can, then give it your best shot. If desired, you can even PM me.

Deme3: You will start to use slang words and make fun of them.

I use slang terms because there are so very, very, very few Religious Absolutists who can understand anything else.

Deme3: Christians do this to atheist too.

No. Christians act like the spoiled, childish brats they have been trained to be. Especially when they lose an argument.

Deme3: So, I put you under the common people with low intellectual.

Do whatever you wish. Ain't no skin off my back.

rmfr

SeniorCitizen007's picture
Most Christians act only

Most Christians act only slightly bothered when an atheist calmly says they don't believe in God ... but they often get really wound up when an atheist denies the existence of Satan. Even Christians who are not particularly fervent can act as if they find the concept of the non-existence of Satan difficult to cope with. I presume that their logic is that Satan is the really dangerous one of the two ... is the one who is more likely to get nasty if his existence is denied.

'God and the Devil' is a conspiracy theory.

Cognostic's picture
I GUESS THIS BEARS REPEATING:

SERIOUSLY: Do you ever get tire of just being WRONG?
I GUESS THIS BEARS REPEATING:
new nationwide survey of adults’ spiritual beliefs, conducted by The Barna Group, suggests that Americans who consider themselves to be Christian have a diverse set of beliefs –but many of those beliefs are contradictory or, at least, inconsistent. The survey explored beliefs about spiritual beings, the influence of faith on their life, views of the Bible, and reactions to faiths other than their own.............

Four out of ten Christians (40%) strongly agreed that Satan “is not a living being but is a symbol of evil.” An additional two out of ten Christians (19%) said they “agree somewhat” with that perspective. A minority of Christians indicated that they believe Satan is real by disagreeing with the statement: one-quarter (26%) disagreed strongly and about one-tenth (9%) disagreed somewhat. The remaining 8% were not sure what they believe about the existence of Satan."

https://www.barna.com/research/most-american-christians-do-not-believe-t...

SeniorCitizen007's picture
I'm talking about people who

I'm talking about people who declare themselves to be Christians, people who assert that Jesus Christ was God, etc. ... not people who "consider themselves to be Christians". Martin Luther said that to be a Christian one has to believe in the existence of Satan.

Demetri Vanlalrelkima's picture
Am I? Not really, I know that

Am I? Not really, I know that when someone doesn't go according to your will, you call them wrong. Being right or wrong doesn't depend on someone's three pound brain.

Sheldon's picture
"Being right or wrong doesn't

"Being right or wrong doesn't depend on someone's three pound brain."

From the man who has repeatedly denied the validity of objective evidence, this is yet again hilarious. Either subjective opinion and personal experience trumps objective evidence or it does not, you can't have your bat shit crazy beliefs, and eat them.

That's a cake metaphor in case you're struggling.

Sapporo's picture
Why do theists only say god

Why do theists only say god does exist, rather than things that are demonstrably extant? Why do all theists make sweeping generalizations?

Tin-Man's picture
@Deme3

@Deme3

Oooooo.... Here's something you might find interesting concerning dear ol' Satan. It was something I learned from one of my uncles many, many years ago when I was still a naïve and inexperienced kid and still believed in all the religious fantasy tales. You should really like this. True story...

While watching a tv show with my Uncle one evening, he asked me, "Who should you fear most? God, or Satan?" Well, having been raised to believe Satan was the most evil and horrible being one could ever imagine, my natural reply as a kid was, "Well, I should be more afraid of Satan, of course." Turns out, I was incorrect, because my Uncle proceeded to explain to me, "Why would you ever be afraid of Satan? If you believe in god and obey god, then there is absolutely nothing Satan can ever do to you. Only god can punish you. Therefore, you should be afraid of god, because Satan is powerless against god." Let me tell ya, as a young and impressionable kid, that totally blew my mind. To me at that time, that was some really "heavy" thinking stuff, and it made a huge impression on me. From that day on, I was never afraid of "evil" again. I would go on to thumb my nose at Satan or anything related to him or his demons.

On the other hand, I was always TERRIFIED of god and what he might do to me should I ever disappoint him. No matter how good I tried to be and no matter how kind and caring I tried to treat other people, I ALWAYS carried with me that nagging doubt about whether or not I was doing good enough. And if I ever slipped up and made a human mistake and did something wrong, then those uncertainties went into overdrive. Then I would scramble for a time trying to do as much good as I could to hopefully compensate for that bad. Horrible way to live a life, I can assure you.

Thankfully, I have finally outgrown those childish beliefs. Oh, It is still my personal policy to not be intimidated by "evil" or bad things/people. That is something that has always stuck with me. Only now it is for different reasons. The best part, however, is that I have escaped the greatest fear that once held me captive for so many years. And that was the fear of what some all-loving, omnibenevolent, all-forgiving god might do to me if I did not meet his totally arbitrary and confusing standards. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing. *grin*

arakish's picture
@ Tin-Man and Deme3

@ Tin-Man and Deme3

Yeah I remember that story in Sunday School (greatest misnomer ever). My response was, "Then if we should fear God the most, that only proves he is evil." And boy did I get from the teacher. Then later got it from the Pastor. And even later got it from me mom.

Boy those wondrous times... NOT!

rmfr

Demetri Vanlalrelkima's picture
I am really sorry to say this

I am really sorry to say this, but, your uncle was apparently brainwashed, it was what people told your uncle when he was a little little kid. Satan can do crazy things bro.

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