Atheism is a faith like anyone else

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David Killens's picture
@ferguson1951

@ferguson1951

"89% of world population believes in some kind of god, although they cannot prove there is one"

A few decades ago the great majority of people around the world believed that tobacco smoke was not harmful. Just because an opinion has consensus, that does not make it true or valid.

ferguson1951's picture
You do not believe in God.

You do not believe in God. But would you belive tha American Psychological Association?

Then read this:https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/12/believe

If you are still cussed against religion it means you have no proper education to objectively judge.

Rohan M.'s picture
Well, religion isn't the only

Well, religion isn't the only way you can find meaning and purpose in life. For me, the simple fact that I am only around for so long and that for all I know this is the only life I will ever have is reason enough to make the most of it. I don't live for any imaginary being. I live for myself, without needing the promise of absolute bliss that will last forever after I've kicked the bucket. Forever that is, until it would just inevitably get boring as shit after a while due to the fact that by definition, absolute bliss means no major change can ever be made to spice things up, nothing is ever at stake, no chances are ever taken, nothing worthwhile can ever be accomplished by anyone, no reason to savor and enjoy the moment and others around you because there is no time limit... *yawn*

And even if religious people did have the monopoly on meaning and purpose in life (which they don't; see above), that still wouldn't affect whether or not God actually exists.

Furthermore, it was pretty obvious to me that the article was heavily biased. Just because it was published by the APA doesn't make it automatically have an NPOV.

Furthermore, I thought that, by your own admission, you "disliked" science?

Sheldon's picture
ferguson1951 "You do not

ferguson1951 "You do not believe in God. But would you belive tha American Psychological Association? Then read this:https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/12/believe"

"Religion may fill the human need for finding meaning, sparing us from existential angst while also supporting social organization, researchers say."

So what? The fact people use superstitious fantasy as crutch doesn't change the fact it is superstitious fantasy.

"“What we’re showing is that our basic cognitive equipment biases us toward certain kinds of thinking and leads to thinking about a pre-life, an afterlife, gods, invisible beings that are doing things — themes common to most of the world’s religions,” says Barrett."

I don't think you read this link either, oh dear how embarrassing for you, again. It's a cognitive bias, well well. And the researchers claim this bias was nothing to do with religious belief per se, rather it had other evolutionary benefits, and the hits just keep on coming.

"That said, most researchers don’t believe that the cognitive tendencies that bias us toward religious belief evolved specifically for thinking about religion. Rather, they likely served other adaptive purposes. "

Now for the end of the article which you clearly didn't read...

"That distrust causes much of the world’s strife and violence and is one of the reasons the “new atheists,” including British evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, PhD, and neuroscientist Sam Harris, PhD, want to see religion disappear. But that will be difficult if not impossible if religion is a byproduct of the way our brains work, as much of the recent research suggests, says Atran. What could work, says Norenzayan, is to replace religion with secular communities built on a common moral foundation. He suggests that Denmark’s society is successfully doing this with its large welfare state, its national ethic of hard work and its strong attachment to political freedom and individualism. "

You'll never learn will you, stop Goggling questions and linking articles based on the headline results you clown.

Calilasseia's picture
Oh no, he's wheeled out the

Oh no, he's wheeled out the tiresome "The Big Bang was an explosion" drivel.

Ferguson, if you cannot exert even the elementary effort required to learn what scientists actually postulate, you're in no position to sneer at their work. Take your ignorance and re-insert it into the same orifice you manifestly extracted it from.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Calli

@ Calli

if you cannot exert even the elementary effort required to learn what scientists actually postulate, you're in no position to sneer at their work. Take your ignorance and re-insert it into the same orifice you manifestly extracted it from.

Wow, that is the nearest I have seen you come to a complete "fuck off Noddy you bore me" comment . BRAVO!!!!!!

Come over for a beer any time mate!

Tin-Man's picture
Hey, everybody, look at this

Hey, everybody, look at this cool shirt my wife got me for my birthday a few days ago! Hilarious! Can't wait to wear it out and about... *chuckle*... Kinda strange, though, that it somehow makes me think of Fergie whenever I see it lately. And I have no idea why. Odd, right?... *scratching head in puzzlement*... Anyway, just wanted to share that with everybody. Figured you bunch of degenerates would get a kick out of it.

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NewSkeptic's picture
Most religious people can be

Most religious people can be defined as blissfully ignorant. They don't spend a great deal of time thinking about it, they just carry on the traditions they were indoctrinated with and they certainly don't seek out forums such as this to test their beliefs.

Then along comes Fergie.

Fergie is putting forth a whole new standard that I have not seen before. His denunciation of logic and rational thought and his pure disdain of education, put him in a whole new category that I believe requires a whole new label.

I'm open to other suggestions, but I would put forth the following label to accurately describe Fergism:

Deliberately Stupid.

Forum litterateur Calilasseia can probably come up with something more resplendent, but I like mine because it should be hard to misconstrue.

Fergie, you can lead the movement. Imagine t-shirts, coffee mugs, pencils (no take that one back, I'm sure writing is suspect), bumper stickers, the possibilities are endless. We already have the perfect spokesman. I'll be your agent Fergie. With the new cash flow, we'll upgrade you to a 110 m2 apartment and you'll have $75K in the bank. You can even lead Donald Trump's re-election campaign. What a fit!

The possibilities are really endless, Fergie, step up and own it.

Deliberately Stupid.

You are the right man at the right time.

ferguson1951's picture
I see you keep insulting me

I see you keep insulting me and nobody does anything about it.

I thought the rules were no trolling , no bullying. Something must have gone wrong.

The Big bang is like the origin of life: first scientists say one thing. When some time later it proves to be foolish then they change the story to make it more palatable. I have no intention to keep up with all the scientific coat-turning.

With cancer treatment it is the same thing. For ages they failed to cure it with chemo and the rest. Now that even they admit it get them nowhere they are coming up with immunotherapy.

NewSkeptic's picture
Gosh, you really don't get it

Gosh, you really don't get it. I'm trying to make you rich and famous and for this you want to tattle on me.

Although your discourse on science is, as usual, inaccurate, I will point out that yes, science, as a method to discover the truth, is always open to new evidence and interpretation. You see that as a negative. Must be my educational bias (I have one of those dreaded university degrees) but I find new scientific discoveries endlessly fascinating. What a terrible thing, striving for new information.

,,,and as a follow up, your denunciations of logic and education do, by definition, label you deliberately stupid, there is really no way around that. Facts are not ad hominem insults.

Sheldon's picture
Thu, 07/11/2019 - 10:51 #238

Thu, 07/11/2019 - 10:51 #238
ferguson1951 "You go on with your stupid lives:"

Fri, 07/12/2019 - 08:10
ferguson1951 "I see you keep insulting me and nobody does anything about it. I thought the rules were no trolling , no bullying. Something must have gone wrong."

I see we can add hypocrisy to your growing list of disdainful behaviours on here. If you dish it out you ought to expect it back, so man up, no one likes a crybaby.

Sheldon's picture
ferguson "The Big bang is

ferguson "The Big bang is like the origin of life: first scientists say one thing. When some time later it proves to be foolish then they change the story to make it more palatable."

The big bang theory is about the origin of the current universe, it makes no claims about the origins of life, nor does science yet have any definitive evidence and thus makes no claims about the origins of life. all human methods of reasoning are fallible, they cannot be otherwise, thus a method that can't admit an error and accept all facts must remain tentative in light of new evidence would be doomed to cling to asinine absurdity, the way religions have always clung doggedly, and some still do, to insanely stupid erroneous myths like creationism, and global flood myths. This tired old canard that this somehow makes all scientific facts unreliable is one of the very stupidest claims religious apologists make.It takes a particularly stupid and ignorant individual to use this absurd claim.

"With cancer treatment it is the same thing. For ages they failed to cure it with chemo and the rest. Now that even they admit it get them nowhere they are coming up with immunotherapy."

Another gem, sadly this is again complete nonsense, chemo is still used and many thousands of people have been saved by chemo, I have seen three immediate family members have their lives saved by dedicated medical professional, and just such treatments, which have been improved year on year. Medical research of course has improved treatments like chemo, which despite your cretinous claim is absolutely still used, and is more effective than ever thanks to new targeting techniques, and of course medical research finds new treatments like immunotherapy as well, this doesn't of course mean old methods never worked, only a complete moron would even make such a claim.

Algebe's picture
@Ferguson1951: For ages they

@Ferguson1951: For ages they failed to cure it with chemo and the rest. Now that even they admit it get them nowhere they are coming up with immunotherapy.

Thanks to surgery, chemo, and radiotherapy, more cancer sufferers are surviving longer than ever before. But unlike the closed-minded certainty of religion, science is always looking for better answers, such as immunotherapy and gene therapy.

You'll be very grateful for that if you or any of your loved ones are ever affected by cancer. I certainly am.

ferguson1951's picture
You say that God does not

You say that God does not exist. You simply suspect that, you are not sure.
You say that religion is a load of baloney. You suspect that, because you have never practiced as you should have done.
I could tell you about the many apparitions, especially the two most famous ones: Fatima and Lourdes. Children who had no university education, were very poor and ignorant talked about having seen the Virgin Mary who predicted things that actually happened. You would say that even if the Virgin was true, she chose ignorant kids who would believe anything. You suspect that, because you are not sure.

You rumble about certainty, scientific evidence and logic, but when it comes to religion you unload an avalanche of suppositions.
YOU are the ones who cannot be trusted. You are not objective. You just hate religion and all this talk about logic, science and evidence is just a cover-up.

Why don't you treat religion as you treat science? Can you repeat only one of our supposed miracles exactly alike in your laboratories? No you cannot. You are biased, when it comes to religion you are illogical and utterly repulsive just for the sake of it.

The right thing to do is first try religion in practice and then judge, do research like you would do with science, examine papers and facts in detail, accept theories like you blindly accept scientific theories. You talk about appeal to authority but you have not tried yourselves even half of what they teach you at university. You gobble all that faster than us Christians gobbling theological papers.

Tin-Man's picture
@Fergie

@Fergie

FANTASTIC!... *waving pom-poms*... Rah-rah-rah!!!... Go, Fergie! Go, Fergie! Go, Fergie! GO! Yaaaaaaay!!!... *more pom-pom waving*...

Wow, dude! I have to say, it is GREAT having you around this place... *playfully nudging ribs with elbow*... Yes, sir, you are doing awesome! As I mentioned before, you have got to be the best ally an atheist could ever have. And at first I thought you were trying to keep it a secret. You know, "on the down-low."... *wink*... But now it is obvious you are willing to be fully out in the open with your amazing gift. Excellent! Please, just keep up the good work, ol' buddy. It is brave souls like you who help us bring attention to the woefully detrimental effects of religion on the human psyche. I think I can safely speak for others here when I say your contributions to atheism are very much appreciated. We love ya, big guy!... *smooch*...

Algebe's picture
Ferguson1951: The right thing

Ferguson1951: The right thing to do is first try religion in practice and then judge.

Most atheists are people who've grown up in religious traditions. Do you think Christianity and Islam, etc., wait until people are adults and then offer them a free choice? No. They seize little children and indoctrinate them from infancy. Atheists actually have a very good knowledge of their former religions, because they are the ones who've thought deeply enough to see through all the lies. The more I learn about Christianity and its history, the more disgusted I become.

Sheldon's picture
@ferguson 1951

@ferguson 1951

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity? The rest of your verbiage is just coloured bubbles.

ferguson1951's picture
You keep asking me to prove

You keep asking me to prove that God exists. I cannot, so you deduct that there is no God.

Likewise, I apply the same kind of reasoning. Prove me that there is no God. You cannot, so I deduct that there is a God.

I've made my case.

David Killens's picture
@ferguson1951

@ferguson1951

"You keep asking me to prove that God exists. I cannot, so you deduct that there is no God.

Likewise, I apply the same kind of reasoning. Prove me that there is no God. You cannot, so I deduct that there is a God.

I've made my case."

Yes, you have proven beyond all doubt that you are a complete and utter idiot.

Almost all atheists in here define themselves as ones who reject the claim of a god. You are probably too thick to comprehend the difference between rejecting a claim and denying the existence.

You and other theists are making the god claim, therefore the burden of proof is on you. I have not accepted your arguments for a god, thus I reject your claims. I do not have to prove anything.

You are an amusing (although toxic) little creature, severely lacking in imagination and knowledge. I think we should begin a pool, to see what failed theistic argument you will try next.

NewSkeptic's picture
@David Killens

@David Killens

"I think we should begin a pool, to see what failed theistic argument you will try next."

(Raising hand emphatically) Me, me, me. I'm in. Can we get one of the Vegas bookies to post odds?

I'll take Pascal's Wager for $200, although I doubt our host will actually know it by name.

NewSkeptic's picture
@Fergie

@Fergie

"Likewise, I apply the same kind of reasoning. Prove me that there is no God. You cannot, so I deduct that there is a God."

Perfect application of logic rejection, Fergie, way to go. Anyone up for a Dillahunty/Fergie debate?

Algebe's picture
ferguson1951: Prove me that

ferguson1951: Prove me that there is no God. You cannot, so I deduct that there is a God.

I can't prove to you that there's no Santa Claus, Superman, Thor, Zeus, Odin or Amaterasu. So you can deduce that they all exist as well.

Sheldon's picture
ferguson 1951 "You keep

ferguson 1951 "You keep asking me to prove that God exists. I cannot, so you deduct that there is no God."

If that's aimed at me then both claims are incorrect. I have never asked anyone to "prove" anything, as the word is something of a misnomer, I have asked you what objective evidence you can demonstrate for any deity, you have offered none. I disbelieve the claim a deity exists as no one can demonstrate any objective evidence, you disbelieving in almost the same amount of deities as I do, so please do "prove" that all those deities don't exist, as this is the standard you have set, not me.

Asking someone to prove something doesn't exist is an appeal ignorance fallacy, as you have been told each time you rehash this common logical fallacy. The fact you are ignorant of what it means to use such fallacies is manifest, but it its significance is not lost on those of us who do understand what their use means.

ferguson 1951 "I've made my case."

You have made a fool of yourself again, nothing more. What's your "proof" invisible unicorns don't exist? Anyone can use argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacies to create unfalsifiable claims, it's meaningless, sadly you seem unaware that is meaningless, or why.

Sheldon's picture
ferguson 1951 "I've made my

ferguson 1951 "I've made my case."

You've ignored my question, and lied about what I asked more like. I never mentioned proof, I asked you what objective evidence you can demonstrate for any deity? Tellingly you have offered none, and simply lied and claimed I had asked for proof.

Terraphon's picture
Go learn the definition of

Go learn the definition of the word "faith".

Then go learn the definition of the word "atheism".

Then go look in the mirror and realize you're looking right at a guy who made a public assertion without having any idea what he's talking about.

Then, when you're done feeling stupid, come back and apologize for accusing us of something we didn't do.

Tin-Man's picture
@Terraphon Re: To Fergie - "

@Terraphon Re: To Fergie - "...come back and apologize for accusing us of something we didn't do."

...*eyes wide and mouth agape in display of shock*.... Oh, how DARE you! The sheer audacity! For your information, Fergie is here doing The LORD'S Work! And you stroll up in here and have the NERVE to demand an apology from a pure and faithful lamb who is willing to wade in amongst us godless heathens in an effort to save our filthy demented souls by spreading the joyous words and blessings of GOD??? Oh, you wretched and evil cur! You should be THANKING Fergie for sacrificing his precious time, and for his willingness to endure such harsh and wicked torment in the name of his precious Father! But, NO! Instead, your vile arrogance blinds you to such wonderful blessings! I'm afraid there is no hope for you, poor Terraphon. What a shame... *shaking head sadly*... Fergie, if you are reading this right now, this one is not worthy! For that matter, I am not worthy! NONE OF US ARE WORTHY!!!... *falling to knees in anguished shame*.... *looking up with pleading eyes*... But, please.... PLEASE know your valiant efforts to haul our wretched lives from the dismal depths of demonic despair have not gone unnoticed! For you have planted seeds here for all to read! And perhaps one day one of those seeds may eventually sprout and take root and grow into a gloriously strong and solid OAK, upon which others may lean to rest and take comfort in its shade! Glory be to you, Fergie! Glory be...

Tin-Man's picture
Oh, and on a somewhat related

Oh, and on a somewhat related note...

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Calilasseia's picture
This is standard operating

This is standard operating procedure for supernaturalists - avoid addressing what we actually state in public, instead, address whatever misrepresentations thereof they think will be convenient to do so for their amateur apologetics. They pull the same piece of duplicity with scientific postulates as well, though in this case, one has to be open to the possibility that they're simply too stupid to understand actual scientific postulates, because they've been brought up on the limited and parochial imaginations of the authors of sad mythologies.

The moment I see such drivel as "you believe in evolution", or "the Big Bang was an explosion", I know I'm dealing either with an idiot or a lying shitbag. Likewise with "we didn't come from no monkeys" or "you think life appeared by chance". Unfortunately, teaching supernaturalists to avoid canards of this reprehensible nature, is frequently as futile a task as trying to teach spinor calculus to my tropical fish, though they at least exhibit signs of possessing functioning neurons.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cali Re: "....as futile a

@Cali Re: "....as futile a task as trying to teach spinor calculus to my tropical fish, though they at least exhibit signs of possessing functioning neurons."

LMAO.... *high five*....

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Calli

@ Calli

"Unfortunately, teaching supernaturalists to avoid canards of this reprehensible nature, is frequently as futile a task as trying to teach spinor calculus to my tropical fish, though they at least exhibit signs of possessing functioning neurons."

*Snorkle, splutter guffaw* Classic turn of phrase there pal. *Wanders off in the general direction of away , still giggling*

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