Easter, Bloody Easter!

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture


You have avoided the question. Is it MORAL for god to send an EVIL spirit to kill, with a spear, an unarmed man with only a lyre to defend himself?

Never mind the plans, never mind the bull. Answer the question billy.

(spelling edited much later, sorry)

algebe's picture
faith in god: .Also

faith in god: .Also concerning the Kalam argument for god`s existence God is outside space and time so he didn`t have a cause he just always existed.

So this eternal, unchanging being outside of the universe suddenly felt a need for a universe. How did that happen? What changed? What motive can move a god? And having decided to create a universe and this world, how did this omnipotent being manage to screw it up so badly?

bigbill's picture
He desired to have fellowship

He desired to have fellowship with us. that`s why, He is god and he doesn`t have to explain anything here if he so chooses .also you say that this omnipotent being managed to screw things up Well you have to remember that it wasn`t that way at first read Genesis 1 to 5. He made everything good everything that both our first parents needed. he only asked of one thing. And we all know that Adam And Eve went and did what the devilish snake desired. But once sin entered the world god had a remedy for us he did not forget us or abandon us .so he sends his only son Jesus to the earth to remedy the situation of sin. Jesus fulfills the god the fathers plan by going to the cross. And paying redeeming humanity once and for all .so humanity has screwed things up, please don`t put the blame here on GOD.

chimp3's picture
@FIG: "He desired to have

@FIG: "He desired to have fellowship with us. that`s why, He is god and he doesn`t have to explain anything here if he so chooses ."

How nice of you to speak for your god. What would he do without you? Fade into nonexistence?

Sapporo's picture
So essentially, your god

So essentially, your god wants us to confess our sins despite already knowing them, whereas he remains silent on his own sins.

bigbill's picture
God is holy, He cannot sin.

God is holy, He cannot sin. He is all good loving GOD.As for our sins yes we should show contrition for our trespasses against an all loving and holy GOD .and we accomplish this by confessing we recognize and we try to refrain from committing sin again.

Sapporo's picture
God in the bible killed

God in the bible killed millions of children and intends to inflict eternal pain on most of humanity. If those are not sinful actions, you cannot claim that objective morality exists.

bigbill's picture
god can`t look at sin. He is

god can`t look at sin. He is completely holy, and there not sinful actions as you claim!!! Because god took millions from this life doesn`t mean there isn`t an objective God .god could do anything he so chooses .And people send themselves to hell by the decisions they make and their life styles .The bible clearly states that god wishes all people to come to repentance and acknowledge him only. He made us to someday have fellowship with him. Why do you think that it`s immoral for GOD to send people to hell. Like I said before you make the choice by your life decisions if you so practice objective moral values and dedicate your life to God then you shouldn`t have to worry.

Sapporo's picture
You used an example early

You used an example early involving stealing as an attempt to prove there is objective morality.

If you do not believe that pain is bad, how can you claim to have objective morality?

I believe that the worst thing you can do to a person is to inflict pain, so naturally, if god inflicts pain for eternity it follows he is objectively evil. If pain is not universally regarded as bad, then objective morality certainly does not exist.

The Christian god says that if you do not believe and worship him, you will go to hell for eternity. How then can you say that I have nothing to worry from such a god, given that I cannot worship a god that inflicts pain?

Sheldon's picture
"Why do you think that it`s

"Why do you think that it`s immoral for GOD to send people to hell."

Why do you think it is morally acceptable to torture a human being ever, let alone 'for' ever? That's barbaric and any worldview that thinks torture is acceptable is morally bankrupt.

Sheldon's picture
Billy says "God .god could do

Billy says "God .god could do anything he so chooses "

Then there is no such thing as objective morality, that's axiomatic.

I'm still waiting for you to list two things you claim are objectively immoral?

Sheldon's picture
Billy says "god can`t look at

Billy says "god can`t look at sin. He is completely holy"

Special pleading, so logically fallacious. Either you can demonstrate objective morality, or your deity can break the moral diktat it insists humans adhere to. You can't have it both ways.

You'd also need to explain why this deity encourages humans to frequently break it's commandments in your bible if those commandments are as you keep claiming objectively moral?

Sheldon's picture
"people send themselves to

"people send themselves to hell by the decisions they make "

So if you've picked the wrong deity, or the wrong version you'll not think it unfair or unjust when you're tortured for all eternity Billy?

After all your grasp of the validity of arguments is fairly tenuous and I'm being polite. What if you're deity is angered by your inability to grasp that you should be followed some technicality about wearing blended fabrics, or eating she'll fish, or pork? Would you then accept your life was a lie, and think you deserved eternal torture Billy?

I seriously doubt you would. Just as I seriously doubt you'll give a candid answer to my questions.

mickron88's picture
"Because god took millions

"Because god took millions from this life doesn`t mean there isn`t an objective God"

but he's god...
why can't he just magically turn them into renewed people?
if he can create a universe of course he can think of those ways..but not killing them..

if he can foresee the present and he knows that this will happen??why kill them?
really god is good..really fucking good that he loves killing spree..


algebe's picture
 @faith in God: He desired to

 @faith in God: He desired to have fellowship with us. that`s why,

So the poor old fellow was lonely?

Please apply your own logic to this. We desire the things we need to make our lives more perfect. So how can an already perfect being have any desires? The addition of anything to something that is perfect will make it imperfect, like a mustache on the Mona Lisa.

Sky Pilot's picture
faith in God fo...,

faith in God fo...,
"He made everything good everything that both our first parents needed."

Why does Yahweh hate bread made with yeast?

Sheldon's picture
There are no objective morals

There are no objective morals coming from any deity. Unless you can evidence this claim?

Give us 2 examples of something that you claim is objectively immoral Billy?

Sheldon's picture
"here is objective and

"here is objective and independent account of evidence for the God existence argument: "

How can something be independent and objective Billy? He's a pastor who's using archaic theistic apologetics, so the claims are actually neither independent or objective, since they are someone else's arguments, that reflect his own subjective beliefs and assumptions.

bigbill's picture
I never said that pain was

I never said that pain was bad, its something that we experience in our fallen nature. and tell me where did you derive that it`s wrong to inflict pain, but of course from objective moral values .you know that it`s wrong to inflict pain .by measuring your self from a standard that`s how you know it`s wrong. and that standard is goodness that comes from god. Pain can draw a person closer to GOD and in need of gods comfort. So I don`t think you could place pain up there. Pain has qualities that sometimes are very good. Like to know when you need a dentist or an operation from a surgeon. So I wouldn`t conclude then with your assessment concerning a connection here of pain and objective moral values. you could still have pain and there be objective moral values . between one and the other here.pain does not prove that there isn`t such a relation

Sapporo's picture
If god tells you to murder a

@faith in God follower'
If god tells you to murder a child, you will say it is objectively moral whereas I will say it is subjectively moral. That does not change the nature of the act.

Sheldon's picture
Yo! Billy!

Yo! Billy!

Can you give two examples of things that are objectively immoral?

Tin-Man's picture
@Sheldon Re: FIG

@Sheldon Re: FIG

*bee-doe-bee*... "We're sorry, but the number you are trying to reach has been disconnected and is no longer in service. Please check the number you have dialed, or contact an operator for assistance. Thank you."

Mr. Sheldon, we regret to inform you that our dear FIG/AB/DC/Billy is no longer with us, as he was cast out into the netherworld of cyber-space recently due to "Conduct Unbecoming of a Pet Troll." In light of this traumatic and heartbreaking development, counselling stations have been set up for those in need of mental and emotional therapy to help cope with the loss.

The Breakfast Club

Sheldon's picture
Say it ain't so...I had

Say it ain't so...I had started to think of Billy as a wet stone I could use to sharpen my arguments on. He had nothing else of course, but re-examining old arguments helped hone them. Can he still read the threads?

mickron88's picture
so long FIG

so long FIG

we'll be missing your irrational point of view..

algebe's picture
Have hope ye of little faith!

Have hope ye of little faith! FIG shall be resurrected and speak unto us again, perhaps even before Easter Sunday. His name may be different, but verily verily I say unto you that you shall know him by his three stigmata: grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

Tin-Man's picture
Hallelujah, Brother Algebe!

Hallelujah, Brother Algebe! And a big AMEN! Your words of hope and inspiration have given me the strength and perseverance to struggle onward in this vast barren desert of despair! Praise ye! Praise ye! We all anxiously await for your words of prophesy to come to fruition! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! *running up and down the aisle, madly waving hands above head* Whoop-whoop!

mickron88's picture
i doubt that he'll be back.

i doubt that he'll be back..he's going to be so dishonest if he'll be back here with a new account..
he'll only going to really piss cyb off if that happen..and as usual kicked him again the second time around...

and by the way its not resurrection..its being undead...
don't you wonder why the disciples run like hell??......they saw jesus christ rotting and walking dead..

the real true story what happen to jesus...

jesus is the first zombie human kind had...FYI

CyberLN's picture
“he'll only going to really

“he'll only going to really piss cyb off if that happen..”

I don’t ban people because I get pissed off. I ban then for cause.

This stuff rarely, if ever, gets me feeling that way. I certainly disagree with what is written in some posts, but they don’t ‘piss me off’. In forums, we usually read others’ posts with our own voices. So, it’s important, IMO, to pay attention to what was actually typed not how one’s own internal voice sounds reading it.


Edited typo


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