Is the God of The Bible just?

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jonthecatholic's picture
True, Hitler was a baptized

True, Hitler was a baptized Catholic. I'm pretty sure a bunch of atheists (even on this forum) were baptized Christian. Does that mean that you're still a Christian now? Hitler's religious views are still brought into question especially because it's not known with certainty whether he was actually Christian or an atheist who pretender to be Christian when giving speeches (see your quotes) to appear favorable to the public.

This "pretending to be Religious" is a common tactic especially in countries where religion is widespread.

Sky Pilot's picture


It really doesn't matter if Hitler was a Catholic or if he was a tree stump. There's no record that he himself ever actually killed anyone in WWII. His minions did that.

Now, do you agree that at least some of his minions were Christians and that it was them who eagerly and willfully did all of the "evil" deeds?

A lot of our troops were Christians as well but they gladly burned people alive.

LogicFTW's picture
You may have already answered

You may have already answered this, I did not read all 243 replies to this thread, but if you will humour me, I will bite.

I am curious your explanation why Noah killing everything on earth other than sea creatures, and ocean birds and those on Noah's ark in this story in many various versions of the bible and other religious text, that you believe is real is justified.

Also curious why if you can justify why god did it once, why does he not do it again? Why only once so far in all of written history as the various versions of the bible tells it?

Why does only a few religious text centered around the mediterranean even speak of a great worldwide flood? Near as I can tell most bibles very roughly place the great flood to have occurred 4000 years ago. But there are many civilizations around the world that have similar recorded history going back 4000 years that have no mention of a world wide flood. Civilizations that if such a great flood occurred could not possibly exist. (Take all civilizations in the Americas for instance, including mayans that existed 4000 years ago and were in some ways more advance then civilizations centered around the mediterranean!)

Or to summarize my last paragraph how do you justify all the huge huge logical flaws that a world wide flooding event depicted in the bible has?

phetaroi's picture
So we have at least 2

So we have at least 2 Christians here who have written paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of their personal justifications for believing in Christianity. They chose to come here to a site which is for atheists. They have made not one iota of progress, yet they continue. They will make no progress. Yet they continue. That is stupid behavior.

LogicFTW's picture
If the goal is to convert,

If the goal is to convert, then yes, huge waste of their time.
If the goal is to debate, not so bad.

I personally know it is highly unlikely I will convert a theist that comes to these boards to argue their side. I do not even try. I instead enjoy the debate.

Just like we atheist have heard all their arguments before, they likely have already heard ours. Hearing it for the 20th time probably not going to change anything on either side. If the argument was going to "work" in converting someone it would have already done so.

algebe's picture
@LogicForTW: "If the goal is

@LogicForTW: "If the goal is to debate, not so bad."

Right. If it's fun, it's not a waste of time. And maybe once in a while we can open someone's eyes to wonders of reality, and to the evil caused by religion in this world.

Darren Koch's picture
Logic- I'll do my best to

Logic- I'll do my best to answer each question u presented.

- As to why Noah killed these creatures, I guess I'd say God killed them, not Noah. I cannot offer justification. I don't believe my mind can offer judgement as to the justification of God's actions- kinda like asking my 3 yr. old to justify mom or dads actions he doesn't understand or approve of. I admit that often times I cannot comprehend his plan.

- he's done it once because he entered into a covenant with man after the flood. Also, and I'm paraphrasing, it is written that he would spare death of the masses if he finds only 1 holy man.

-I am not an expert on the Old Testament, but I don't know if a date given. I don't like to use the Bible as a "history" book, and to open a can of worms, I don't think a supernatural God operates on the same experience/understanding of time as quantified by man. I think we simply "exist", forex

LogicFTW's picture
My bad, I meant god, not Noah

My bad, I meant god, not Noah, I never assumed noah cause/did the great flood.

So you cannot explain/defend gods action for the great flood. Okay.

That covenant is mighty convenient for us men and limits god's power greatly. Why would an all powerful god limit it self like that? Because he is loving and merciful? Why not before? Why does god exhibit such human traits?

So you do not want to date the great flood so it is not held up to scrutiny. Would you say it happened in the last 12 thousand years? Or do you believe the earth is 4.5 billion years old?

Darren Koch's picture
Hard concept for me to

Hard concept for me to explain, but for example the sacrifice of Christ happened 2000 yrs ago, but we believe it did, was, and is currently happening to this day. Sorry for my poor attempt to explain this idea...

Darren Koch's picture
Logic- I understand and

Logic- I understand and appreciate the fact that I cannot give a specific date for the flood comes across as a cop-out. Sorry, but I've yet to come across an exact date in the Bible, or as taught by Catholicism. I view the covenant as an act of mercy, not limiting power. I promise my wife to be faithfull, not as a limit to my abilities, but as an act of sacrifice and love. He could do it again, but chooses not to. I'd argue he did not take on human traits as we know them, but we have been blessed with God-like traits...made in his image!

I believe the flood occurred a long time ago- dunno when. If it were said it happened a trillion years ago, fine by me. Infinity goes both directions, past and future, so if God is infinite, specific times don't bother or hold much weight with me in regards to His existence.

LogicFTW's picture
Would it be fine with you if

Would it be fine with you if the bible said the great flood occurred a year ago? Also a trillion years ago goes against all findings of dating on earth and the universe at large.

To say the great flood happened a trillion years ago would be to say much of the findings of science is flat out wrong. Even though it is science findings right now that allows you to carry on this conversation with me even though we may be thousands of miles apart.

Darren Koch's picture
Logic- I would be fine with

Logic- I would be fine with the simple concept that the flood occurred. I just can't trust science as you do, because even the most simplistic of scientific theories seem to evolve. I don't absolutely trust the logic of man, mine included. What if the flood occurred before written history? What if it NEVER occurred? We throw the flood out and concentrate only on the New Testament, where would u stand? Thanks a lot for the points of view you've offered!

MCDennis's picture
the god character in the holy

the god character in the holy babble is a monster

phetaroi's picture
I think it's time for a

I think it's time for a progress know, like we used to get in school.

Would all the atheists who have been participating in this farcical thread who have changed their mind about atheism versus Christianity due to beleevur's posts, please raise their hands.

Thank you.


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