Many contend that the God of the bible (TGOTB) is unjust based on things like, him destroying everyone except Noah and his family during the flood. Using Israel to wipe out heathen nations, including women and children. Many other examples can be given, these are two good ones to start with. I can explain why these things are just.
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@beleevur: The god of the Bible is just a fairy tale. Its sense of justice is the justice of the people who imagined this god. Your explanations will be your own.
Chimp3: So essentially your saying you don't want to engage me on this?
@beleevur: You have been engaged. Carry on!
Good point chimp, I agree. The philosophy of justice is extremely open to argument without the foundation of God. To me, the idea of "justice" without God is just as much a fairy tale as your view of the idea of god himself.
@beleevur: I read your words and assume you are human. I do not assume you speak for any fictional deity. Perhaps you do. It would take a lot to convince me of that.
Don't worry, your idea of "justice" with gods is the literary base of the Lord of the Rings... Harry Potter bless you.
Among the many characters treated unjustly in the Bible are Eve, Job, Lot's Wife, Uriah the Hittite, the people of Jericho, Judas, Jesus, and everyone slaughtered by the hairy, holy thug Samson. In fact, if you say god is omnipotent and omniscient, as beleevurs tend to do, then everyone who was punished, tortured, and killed by your Sky-Fairy was treated unjustly. They simply had no choice in their actions.
The Bible is a self-help book for the unjust. The title should be "How to Succeed in Life by Treating Other People Unfairly and Cruelly."
We have to start somewhere. I believe the TGOTB is real. He is the supreme intelligence responsible for the existence of all that is. I could be wrong, but then I could be right. You believe TGOTB is imaginary, you could be wrong, but then you could be right. All of us are finite (limited), fallible (prone to error) human beings. I'm trying to begin a dialogue exploring this question and many others. I believe I can offer some compelling dialogue in support of my position. I'm prepared to abandoned my belief in the TGOTB if I can be shown to be in error. Why would I want to keep believing in a lie?
It could not be the verb to use, you know, I know, we all know it's imaginary. There is no dialogue based on real, that is, scientific about TGOTB is real, and I repeat, you know, I know, we all know, the rest is bullshit crap, and why would anyone want to continue believing in a lie... Because they are idiots? That's a great possibility you have not explored enough, I'm sure.
Science is faith based.
Sure, and Elvis is alive, James Brown has transplanted his brain to a young body... https://youtu.be/VuyYGVDCdN0 ... and you know what you're talking about... Batman bless you.
SBMontero: Must you have scientific evidence before you accept anything as true?
Is here where you come back to tell me that Santa exists? And please, don't talk to me about faith, bullshit the just, baby... Mickey Mouse bless you.
SBMontero: I repeat, must you have scientific evidence before you accept anything as true? Give me a straight answer, please. TYVM.
SB, you're kinda jumping the gun here. The question simply asked if you believe that you must have scientific evidence before accepting anything as true. It doesn't say that you're gonna need faith to believe in some scientific ideas.
Beleevur might go there but he might go in a totally different direction.
@Jon the Catholic:
Sorry, I don't give a shit about the direction you want to go, that's not the point. Reality is what it's, then you're drooling in a corner, Does it mean that humanity must sidestep reality and pay attention to your idiot ravings? Don't go beyond getting yourself medically treated before you hurt anyone or yourself.
I don't know if I explain myself clearly, baby... SpongeBob SquarePants bless you.
As usual, you're putting words that other theists (probably they're as stupid as you say) in my mouth. I'll draw it out the way I would've.
The question asked if everything we're to believe must be proven by science.
If your answer yes, then prove to me scientifically that everything we're to believe must be proven by science.
If your answer is no, then we'd agree.
You'd need scientific evidence to prove scientific facts or things that lie in the physical realm.
You'd need historical evidence to prove historical facts or things that have happened in the past.
You'd need numerical reasoning to prove mathematical facts.
You'd need philosophical reasoning to prove philosophical ideas.
You'd need to look at ethics to answer questions about moral issues.
Would you ask someone to prove scientifically that the holocaust happened? or that rape is wrong? No. Coz they lie outside the bounds of science. We have to look to other tools to prove these things.
@Jon the Catholic:
no, no, sorry, it's you who must demostrate that are saying anything with some sense... the question is you can? You are a believer, a dock that gives for certain things that are false, starting with the existence of the immortal soul, passing through the existence of imaginary friends and ending by the existence of heaven and hell. What do you sell, other than smoke? Tell me.
And there's no need to prove that the holocaust happened, it's history, you are unable to prove that Jesus existed, which makes it an allegory. I repeat, what do you sell other than smoke, baby?
Are you dumb, blind, do you have any problem of understanding that the rest of human beings are unable to see? I've put this video on every occasion that I've answered you, I've told you that you can even talk to him through Twitter in relation to this video, as long as you ask a rational question about it... Is there anything that does not you understand, asshole?
But, of course, if you are able to deny the evidence, if you are able to take the opposite, please enlighten us, oh, cucumber wise. C'mon!
SBmontero: If I referred you to a Christian Apologetic's youtube video would you go to it and watch it with an open mind? I would really prefer that you respond to me in your own words instead of referring me to other web sites for your answers.
Wait, wait... Are you saying that the refutation of God's or gods need in the creation and functioning of the universe by one of the most vivid scientific minds is Christian apology? Ôo)-♫
Tell me the truth, you started watching the video and didn't understand a shit. If that's the point, I'm sorry to tell you, no one can fight against your ignorance... except you, of course. I cannot help you with your stupidity, beyond advising you to read books.
Do you want me to advise you about readings that deal with science? You know, knowledge doesn't take place, ignorance does.
What's your definition of 'faith'.
Conviction (something one is convinced of). "To rely" upon by inward certainty. A "trust" in what we have reason to believe is true. Faith in the Christian sense is many times referred to as a gift, something that God gives us and also something we can ask for. The simple definition is "To believe". I've often said that we need faith because we are finite and fallible beings and that our faith takes over where our natural resources run out. When we come to the end of ourselves it's then that we have to make our appeal to GOD. We ask him a question, he gives us an answer. How do we "know" its God giving us this answer? We don't "know" we believe. If you think about it, can we really "know" anything? given our fallible state?Technically we can't. Hume and Kant the great philosophers concur with this. A widely known scripture - Says faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Another scripture says Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17) another says "We walk by faith not by sight" (2 Corinthians 5:7) so sometimes when some one ask me what faith is I say "it's not sight" that is to say its not based on something we can see or perceive with our natural senses, though I do believe it is something that in many ways can be substantiated by reason. For instance the historical and legal evidence that supports the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 500 people were eye witnesses to this according to the N.T. But I wasn't an eye witness to it, yet I still believe it. When I came to believe, God gave me this faith. I had an encounter with God. Latter I learned of these evidences that supported my faith. Your question is larger then you may have suspected. A component of "mystery" is involved with the idea of faith from a spiritual perspective. I suspect mystery shall always be a part of faith.
SBMontero said: There is no dialogue based on real, that is, scientific about TGOTB ....
Beleevur says: here you are equating science with whats real or reality, this is why I ask
Must you have scientific evidence before you accept anything as true (or real)?
And the answer is further back, learn to read, not by repeating a question to see if it stays in the air this stops being more stupid, baby... the Road Runner bless you.
SBMontero: Do you really believe all of the denigrating language you use with me is going to move me to honestly consider the things you have to say? I believe God is enabling me to endure it, but it doesn't impress me at all. Nonetheless, I'm still making an effort to honestly consider your contentions. I respect your convictions, you have a right to them. "The truth", is what I'm after, what ever that might be. Even if it means me abandoning my Christian faith and becoming an atheist.
Already, already, already... but the answer is still there and you continue to ignore it, less make you offended, we all know read... Or you don't?
Why do you believe that the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews got it right with their ethnocentric homicidal maniac deity and everyone else got it wrong with their other gods?
Remember, if the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews were right you will end up being their slave forever. Do you really want to be a slave forever?