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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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we haven't seen God through scientific proof and we never will, i will be the first to admit. let me tell you why, how can we scientifically prove God exists if God is supposed to be separate and independent of science. For example it's like learning basketball in preparation for a history test it doesn't work. Instead as theists, we look into the proofs of the quran i'll quote you a verse " And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away."-quran 21:32
the sky a protected ceiling. you know the ozone layer, protecting us against asteroids and harmful radiation from the sun. no poet no human no body could have known that in the 7th century when the quran was revealed , there are many more citations in the quran if this doesn't convince you i'll proudly give you more
If you think the ozone layer can protect us from asteroids, especially life killing ones then I genuinely worry about your academic career lol.
Hell, even the 20m Chelyabinsk meteor had roughly 30 times the energy of hiroshima... not to mention the Chicxulub astroid that devistated our planet.
Science doesn't prove things, it evidences them.
" God is supposed to be separate and independent of science."
Most fictional things are "independent" of science.
"you know the ozone layer, protecting us against asteroids "
What's that now? Seriously this is what happens when theists start claiming their religious myths are scientifically valid.
"no poet no human no body could have known that in the 7th century when the quran was revealed"
You think they hadn't noticed that they weren't being wiped out by things from the sky? You are fucking hilarious fair play, but this Islamic tap dance is pretty familiar to us now. Not content to try and wedge their fictional deity into every gap in our scientific knowledge, they also try to claim credit on behalf of their vapid superstition for every thing science discovers.
"we look into the proofs of the quran i'll quote you a verse " And We made the sky a protected ceiling,"
Tell that to the dinosaurs.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130214-biggest-asteroid...
"there are many more citations in the quran if this doesn't convince you i'll proudly give you more"
Convince us of what? If a deity wanted me to believe it existed then it could so instantly, I'm not going to take subjective interpretations that a deity chose an illiterate paedophile from the 7th century as a proxy for its message. Especially based on risible cryptic claims like this one.
@ God is supposed to be separate and independent of science.
You still have no idea what "science" is. All you have said is that God is separate from objective, empirical, observation, evaluation, repetition, testing, and any form of evaluation. Science is the process of observation of the world around us. If God is beyond that - THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN KNOW IT.
By your own admission you have separated your God from all sensory data and by doing so you have no grounds to assert its existence.
RE: For example it's like learning basketball in preparation for a history test it doesn't work.
Obviously you have never heard of Mnemonics. Using basketball for a history test would be an excellent idea if you were using the "Roman Room" technique and happened to be a basketball player. If you understood how the brain works and how memory works, you would not be making silly comments. Shouldn't you talk about the things you actually know about?
RE" "And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away."-quran 21:32"
I do not see the words "Ozone Layer" anyplace in that quote? Was Muhammad stupid or did he just not want to be clear?
Your God also has to hold back this protected ceiling from falling back on the earth and killing everyone. Ha! Some protection.
@quantummechanist
"Ok, but then your logic that God doesn't exist is also subjective because it's in your head"
You still have not grasped it. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god. Personally I am not claiming that a god does not exist, I am saying "that is a pretty wild claim, it requires proof".
Do you understand a lack of belief is not a denial of existence?
An omnipotent and omnipresent being has been proven to not exist in many places, which proves that an omnipotent and omnipresent being does not exist.
I agree with you that is impossible to disprove the existence of things that have no effect on reality. I'm not sure why you mention that quran verse given that no senses can observe things that are invisible and have no effect on reality such as the Islamic god.
Only if you define "sum" in a very special way, in which case you should mention this change; instead of trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes who don't know the subject well. With the standard use of the word, the sum of that series is unbounded (English: infinite).
@Quantum Re: "...none of you can disprove the existence of God..."
And you, good sir, cannot disprove the existence of Carl. He is a ginormous invisible blue universe-pooping Cosmic Bunny. Therefore, BY YOUR OWN "logic", Carl must exist. And, damn, that furry bastard eats a BUNCH of carrots. He hangs around here quite often, and there's hardly a single carrot to be found anywhere on my property.
@ Tin-Man Re: Carl
Good! Keep him there. I love carrots and he better not come here or I'll turn into fertilizer...
rmfr
well done on your poor view of comparing a logical argument (not scientific because the science had an absolute beginning so therefore palpably had a cause) to some weird garbage that you came up with in your mind. you seem very naive to me, thinking that something came from nothing. i see how you fail to compare your nonsense to the existence of God. i greatly respect science and in fact study physics and let me tell you this. science,as both of us and all the scientific community know had a beginning so before science itself had a beginning how could it possibly explain how it came in to existence? God has been the only plausible answer. please tell me tin-man how nothing, yes BEFORE science existed gave rise to to this universe, and other universes. i sort of have a gist of what you will say, but i want a response please,
thanks
@ quantummechanist
And you are dense.
Anyway, scientists are now able to show that there are events without causes at the quantum level. If they are observing events without any cause, then I propose that the Big Bang Event, but I prefer the much more accurate Universal Expansion Event, could have happened without a cause.
Thus, the "goddidit" is out the window. Your evidence has been disproved.
Goodbye, little boy. Adults are talking.
rmfr
dude i am a legal adult i'm 19
So you say. But the intellect you are using to create your posts is that of a 6 year old.
In another post you mentioned the ozone layer being a protective layer against asteroids. I do have a degree in Astrophysics, with a focus into Celestial and Orbital Mechanics. Our ozone layer only protects us some forms of radiation. Against asteroids, it ain't even going to slow them down. Asteroids will punch right through it without even knowing it was there.
Your intellect is laughable. My twin daughters knew more about asteroids and meteors at 6, than you do at your claim of being 19.
Quit skipping school little boy.
rmfr
@Quantum Re: "well done on your poor view of comparing a logical argument.... to some weird garbage that you came up with in your mind."
LMAO..... *wiping tears of laughter from eyes*.... Woooo! With laughter like that, who needs a cardio workout?!?... That was wonderful! Thank you. The fact that you totally missed the point is very telling about you, young man. Please prove to me and everybody else that Carl does not exist. Granted, he is a very friendly and forgiving bunny, but if you make the mistake of angering him you will not enjoy the wrath he delivers unto you in your third afterlife. But you have free will, so the choice is totally up to you. Carl does not believe in forcing people to be good. He's really cool like that. But if you are a good boy and do things that please Carl, you can live forever with him in the Great Garden of Carrot Paradise during your third afterlife. Who could possibly pass up a deal like that?
Re: "... you seem very naive to me, thinking that something came from nothing..."
Ummmm.... Hmmmm.... Yeah, about that. Would you please be so kind as to tell me exactly where I made such a claim? Or even remotely inferred it, for that matter? To be more direct, I do not believe something came from nothing. On the other hand, I do seem to recall that you and other theists such as yourself repeatedly make the claim that EVERYTHING HAD TO COME FROM SOMETHING and that it was your particular god(s) that was that "something" from which everything came. Yet, when asked from where did your god come and/or what made god, you adamantly insist that same particular god "always existed" and was made by nothing. How woefully silly. *chuckle*... And you call ME naive?... *shaking head in amusement*....
Re: "...but i want a response please"
Awfully demanding little cuss, aren't you, little boy? Especially considering you have yet to answer two simple questions that I have already asked you twice in this thread.
1. Please define "nothing".
2. How do you know "nothing" exists or has ever existed.
You see, unlike you, I actually answer direct questions when asked. Run along now, Junior. This is an adult debate site.
You seem to be all over the place, I have replied to many questions in this thread that entail the same sort of questions so i must of missed out, sorry my bad. Please dude stop the sarcasm I'm here for actual argument, not childish attitude that wastes everyone's time. I find it a bit immature of you and rather rude.
Anyway here are my answers to your 2 questions
1)Please define "nothing": I define nothing as the English dictionary defines nothing, that is "not anything; no single thing.".having no prospect of progress; of no value."
2) How do you know "nothing exists or has ever existed". Well nothing doesn't exist. so this question is irrelevant given my answer to the first question,
By the way I'm 19 so legally an adult
@Quantum
Re: "You seem to be all over the place..."
Yeah, I'm kinda like a bad rash in that respect. Just avoid scratching as much as possible. It only makes things worse.
Re: "Please dude stop the sarcasm I'm here for actual argument, not childish attitude that wastes everyone's time."
Sarcasm?... *scratching head*... Hmmm.... Odd. I haven't even started with that yet. Oh well... *shrugging shoulders*... If anything, I have actually been taking it easy on you, young man. With that in mind, allow me to point out that you STILL keep missing my point. (Either that, or you are intentionally ignoring it.) Anyway, you claim Carl is nonsense? Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Divine Carl is no different than your darling ol' Allah. Matter of fact, in ANY verse, claim, or statement you make about your Allah and/or Mohammed, I can very easily insert Carl in their place and still be just as "credible". And just to put your mind at ease that I am not picking on you personally, I can also insert Carl into ANY claim made by Christians about their particular god from the bible. You claim you came here to learn, but I have yet to see any evidence of that so far. Please, do try to keep up.
Re: "By the way I'm 19 so legally an adult"
You are correct. LEGALLY you are an adult. Bear in mind that is simply a technicality, Junior. However, from what I have observed up to this point, you are acting more like a nine year old kid who is upset because he just got told Santa Claus is not real.
@ QM and TM
Besides Carl is REAL. Tin-Man won't keep him out my carrot garden. Sheesh. Tin-Man, if you need more to help feed Carl I just might be willing to donate...
rmfr
1. There is no case of nothing anywhere. You can not talk about something called nothing that does not exist. If you think there is nothing someplace, please demonstrate it. And if there is something, like this universe, in nothing, is nothing still nothing or does it become something holding something else? You do not get to assert nothing into existence any more than you get to assert your version of God into existence. You think there is nothing - prove it.
2. If nothing doesn't exist, you are confused. Value is a mathematical term. No single thing. Another math term - "The absence of things - 0. You are confusing math with nature. We use a zero to demonstrate "No Single Thing" or "The absence of some thing." In this case - nothing actually exists. It is the empty set. It is ZERO. It is a place holder waiting for something to be put in its place. IT EXISTS AS NOTHING or ZERO. There is nothing like this in the real world that anyone has ever discovered. You have not defined nothing.
"God has been the only plausible answer. "
It's not an answer at all, unless you can demonstrate objective evidence for a deity. Science is a method, a tool box for understanding the material physical universe, and it is entirely man made.
"i greatly respect science and in fact study physics "
It doesn't show in your posts at all, scientists don't make sweeping unevidenced claims for a start. I don't know if something can from nothing, and have never claimed this happened, or even that it can happen, but you have not demonstrated any evidence for your claim that it cannot, and that is not scientific, quite the opposite in fact as making unevidenced claims is completely anathema to the scientific method.
If you respect science as you claim, demonstrate some objective empirical evidence for a deity, and a detailed explanation of how you claim this deity created the universe and from what? Then demonstrate detailed objective evidence and an explanation of where this deity came from. Simply asserting these beliefs is not science, not even close.
Off you go...
@Quantum Re: "...none of you can disprove the existence of God..."
I am not in the least interested in trying to do so either.
I think the ship has already sailed on that: go back and check the first 4 words you posted on AR:
In the immortal words of Michael Kay (Yankees sportscaster), "Deep fly ball, going way back, at the track, at the wall... seeeeeeeeeeeyyyaaaaaa!!!!! Home run!!!"
Nyar goes yard again...
the God of the muslims is the only God and is worshipped by the jews and christians and numerous other religions even the most of the polytheists believe in this God, who mind you is the only real God.
First, change your username. I guarantee you do not know the first about Quantum Mechanics except how to spell it.
And you are living in a dissociative schizophrenic delusion. Allah is worshiped only by those who agree with a pedophile war-lord rapist.
And where is your irrefutable objective hard empirical evidence? And if it cannot be verified or falsified, it ain't evidence.
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui mendacium.
That is Latin for:
“He who says he does not have the burden of proof is a liar.”
And this is something ALL you Religious Absolutists truly lie about… Your favorite tactic is to turn the burden of proof around by saying, “Then prove God does not exist.” Pathetic cop-out which only a childish and spoiled brat would resort to in a discussion. Funny how that also describes all Religious Absolutists. Childish, spoiled brats.
Here is actually where the burden of proof lies. You Religious Absolutists claim there is a supernatural super-being who has ultimate-power, ultimate-knowledge, and ultimate goodness (I beg to differ). We Atheists are simply saying, “We do not believe you. Show us the evidence.” Thus, the burden of proof is on you Religious Absolutists.
The burden of proof shall forever lie with those who make the claims about anything. Carl Sagan once said, “Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.” If you propose the existence of something, anything, you MUST follow the Scientific Method in your defense of its existence. Otherwise, atheists have no reason to believe your preposterous claims. Hearsay is the worst possible form of any kind of evidence. ALL religious texts are nothing more than 100% hearsay. Thus, atheists have no reason to believe any religious text as any kind of proof. — synthesized by arakish
Until you Religious Absolutists can present any irrefutable objective hard empirical evidence to support your claims, then your claims shall forever be preposterous, and summarily dismissed. — arakish
The person making the claim bears the burden of proof. If you are going to claim that scientists are lying, doctors are being paid off, there is a global conspiracy against religion, etc., the burden of proof is on YOU to prove your claim. Just saying it proves nothing, except you possess just enough intelligence to speak. — paraphrased from thelogicofscience.com
Author’s Note: These four entries below are actually from a live debate during the Q&A session afterwords. Took them another seven months to get me the transcripts. I am only including the few questions that were directed to me. The Debate Topic: Has Religion Outlived Its Purpose?
Audience Member: “What religion do you believe to be true?”
I refuse to believe in any human-made religion because ALL of them rely on the concept of faith. And, FAITH is a lie in that any human-made religion keeps the promise of eternal damnation and eternal salvation. Not just in this life we currently live, but also in some so-called afterlife. Do you honestly expect me to believe that any human created religion can hold such truths? No human is perfect. Thus, all religions are false by their very nature. Any person in this room could create a religion based upon a single god. There is no proof any religion is from any god. — arakish, transcribed from a live debate, Q&A session
Audience Member: “So, what do you believe the Bible and Qu'ran are then?”
If you are to truly interpret either, you will find that either tells us only one thing: We are to obey and believe as we are told. This is not objective morality; rather, it is tyrannical totalitarian dictated edicts. The Bible and Qu'ran creates the illusion that Christians and Muslims are better than others, allowing them to justify all their crimes and be just as criminal as those they say are immoral. What crock of shit… — arakish, transcribed from a live debate, Q&A session
Audience Member: “Why do you say Christians have a death wish?”
Christians are all for the second coming of Jesus, which means they entirely desire the complete apocolyptic and cataclysmic annihilation of all humanity, the entire Earth, the entire universe. Read the Bible book of The Revelation of Saint John the Divine. All they desire is to get to this Heaven and away from this heathenistic Earth. Well, I say, why don’t we just help them on their way and go ahead and execute them all? Why not? Because it is inhumane. It goes completely against the humanist views and convictions and principles and morality held by most Atheists. However, it does kind of make sense, from a sarcastic…, yet respectful…, point-of-view. All they wish is to get to Heaven as soon as possible, ASAP. They cannot wait to get there. Since they cannot wait, let’s just euthanize them all, including the Muslims, and help to get them to their Sky Faerie and Magic Zombie Virgin and their promised misogynistic paradise filled with virgins. If you are wondering, on one side of the coin, I am deadly serious about speeding these viscious vipers to where they so wish to go. However, on the other side of the coin, I am just as serious about such a heinous act being against the very nature of humanism practiced by atheists. A nice revision of the Catch-22. Wouldn’t you say? — arakish, transcribed from a live debate, Q&A session
Audience Member: “What do you do when God closes a door on you?”
Simple, reach down, turn the knob, and open it. That is how doors work.
Audience Member: “What if the door is locked?”
Then you unlock it.
Audience Member: “What if you cannot unlock from your side?”
OK. Now you are just being a sorry shit-head asshole. That is the “Moving the Goal Post Logical Fallacy.” No matter what answer I give, you are the sorry shit-head that will keep “moving the goal posts.” Goodbye.
The Debate Foreman then dismissed this person who actually had to escorted from the auditorium. But also warned me about my language.
— arakish, transcribed from a live debate, Q&A session
You need to wake up from your dream fantasy and start smelling the roses of reality, boy.
rmfr
I dare you to cite the history of the God you believe in. It certainly has the same origins but to know those origins would be to no longer believe. Pick it up at Zoroastrianism and follow it through to modern times.
Even this ancient Persian religion is actually "better" than christianity
Yes it is. Much better than either Christianity or Islam. But still a lie.
rmfr
I'm of the opinion that if you want to believe in a lie, or to tell it for that matter, choose the more begnin one. Although this religion has a foregone conclusion, the fact that it is truly dualistic remove one part of the problem of evil that Christianity face, cause you don't have a supposedly all loving and powerful god that purposely let his most potent enemy "corrupt" us , puny humans.
Re: How did the entire universe come from nothing?
Okay, boys and girls! Listen up! It's story time! Before I get started, though, I must say that by now your parents should have told you how these things work. Apparently, however, some of you have not had "The Talk" yet. Well, better late than never, I suppose. *Warning: Adult Content Ahead.*
So, there are male universes and female universes, and one day a male and female universe meet and discover they like each other. First, they start off by holding hands, and eventually they decide to try kissing, at which point they fall madly in love and decide to get married. And on the night of their marriage, they have sex. (Please pardon my blunt language.) This involves the Daddy universe placing his super nova into the black hole of the Mommy universe and moving it back and forth rapidly until he discharges billions and billions of comets into the Mommy universe. Then the Daddy universe promptly rolls over and falls asleep while the Mommy universe lies awake wondering why all her friends made such a big fuss about having sex. It really wasn't that big a deal. Probably the most boring twenty seconds of her life as far as she could remem-.... (Oops. Sorry. Got sidetracked.)
Anyway, eventually one of those billions of comets finds its way to a tiny planet located in the Mommy's Crab Nebula. Once there, it enters the atmosphere of the planet and - *Presto!* - life starts to form. A chemical and biological reaction begins that causes the planet to start growing larger and larger. Then, after it has grown for a few million eons in the Mommy's Crab Nebula, the Mommy universe goes into labor and shoots the newborn baby universe out of her black hole while the Daddy universe chain-smokes as he paces nervously back and forth in the waiting room.
And THAT, boys and girls, is how a universe is made. Run along now and go tell your friends.
@ TM
That has got to be one of the funniest things you have written.....thank Eric for the 3rd Commandment according to Arakish. *still chuckling* I am so going to steal that.....
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