how did the entire Universe come from nothing?

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Sheldon's picture
Apollo "I believe nature was

Apollo "I believe nature was created by God."

I don't believe your claim, and I believe you are delusional. However since you have yet again offered a bare claim without evidence Hitchens's razor applies and it is dismissed in the same fashion.

Apollo's picture
It is a belief, not a claim.

It is a belief, not a claim. That belief is not provable. It is coherent with other beliefs that are accepted as proven, however.

Hitchens's razor applies to your claim that you have the ability to be objective. You're just sore since I called your bluff on your objectivity claim.

arakish's picture
When? I ain't seen any such

Apollo: "…bluff on your objectivity claim."

When? I ain't seen any such thing.

rmfr

EDIT: added to what I was referring

Nyarlathotep's picture
Apollo - That belief is not

Apollo - That belief is not provable. It is coherent with other beliefs that are accepted as proven, however.

Such as?

Mutorc S'yriah's picture
Apollo: "It is a belief, not

Apollo: "It is a belief, not a claim. That belief is not provable. It is coherent with other beliefs that are accepted as proven, however."

Coherence is not the same as truth. I prefer to only believe that for which we have evidence.
I propose that we should believe as many true things as possible, and as few false ones as possible.
For things that merely cohere with other things, I will suspend belief, (ie. neither believe, nor disbelieve, just hold in abeyance).
Perhaps you should too.

What you claim, MAY BE POSSIBLE, Apollo, but may also be wrong, so don't go so far as to believe it, (ie. don't believe it's TRUE ~ it MAY BE FALSE).

Mu.

P.S. This is my philosophy FWIW.

Sheldon's picture
The belief is derived from a

The belief is derived from a claim, that a deity exists. You keep using the word provable, but that is a subjective term, in order for a belief to be valid, sufficient objective evidence must demonstrated for it. You can demonstrate nothing for your claim / belief that a deity exists.

"It is coherent with other beliefs that are accepted as proven, however."

No it isn't, and again since you have asserted this without evidence Hitchens's razor applies. You will never understand this at all as long as you start with an a priori belief and then try and mangle reality to validate it. This is the very definition of closed minded.

"Hitchens's razor applies to your claim that you have the ability to be objective. "

I never claimed that, I quite specifically pointed out that objectivity requires valid methods, like science and logic. This is of course an objective fact amply supported by objective evidence.

"You're just sore since I called your bluff on your objectivity claim."

Nope, you're lying, as I have pointed out, I am as capable of bias as any other evolved primate, which is why I don't believe claims for which no objective evidence can be demonstrated. Why would I be sore, you came here to preach your claim a deity exists, I don't believe it, so you making the risible claim objective evidence doesn't exist is hardly helping you validate your superstition, and it is only you who seems unable to see what a stupid own goal that claim of yours is. I strive to be objective, and this is axiomatically not a claim that I am objective. It's also telling that you seem unable to grasp the difference.

Now, what objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity? Oh that's right you can't demonstrate anything, and think claiming objective evidence doesn't exist somehow makes your claim more valid, that's fucking hilariously stupid, even for your posts, some achievement on its own I must say.

xenoview's picture
@apollo

@apollo
What objective evidence do you have that any god or gods are real? I think all you have is subjective evidence.

Remember the Bible is the claim not the evidence.

Cognostic's picture
APOLLO: "Atheists have,

APOLLO: "Atheists have, apparently, a priori rejected a creator God." Not at all. You give us the evidence for your god creating the universe and we will actually look at it. This could be your chance to make history. No one rejects anything without first looking at the evidence. The fact that theists have not been able to produce evidence for their gods, IS NOT OUR PROBLEM.

RE: "either it created itself, or it always existed. " This is a "black and white" fallacy or "false dilemma." There is no evidence at all that a universe came from nothing. There is no evidence at all that a universe can not create itself. There is no evidence at all that a universe could not be created naturally. And finally, there is no evidence at all that a magical flying being who is not mutually excluding himself from existence by existing outside of time and space but still having time and space to act and actually do something like create a universe could not exist. Of the thousands of possible options we could imagine, YOUR GOD BEING is still the least likely of all explanations.

If you are going to ASSERT that a god done it. You must PROVE your assertion. All we know so far is that Macro Physics breaks down at the quantum level. "CAUSALITY" no longer exists. "TIME" flows in both directions. AND there is no EMPTINESS.

Atheists are ignoring NO FACTS. If you think you have some facts.... POST THEM>

Cognostic's picture
Apollo Continues to toss away

Apollo Continues to toss away the bible and invent his own version of this New Age God thing, Just as the great Charlestons of the 20th and 21st Centuries have done. "I believe in a creator God, creatro fo nature and natural processes."

I hear the train a com'in. It's com'in round the bend... Wooo Wooo!

Frankly the blue Cosmic Bunnies are more interesting than this vague, amorphous, nature god thing. And there is a whole lot more evidence for "Turtles all the way down." What's the stupidest God hypothesis you have ever heard? How does it compare with Apollo's?

Cognostic's picture
Apollo Continues to toss away

DUP!

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